I started this thread in another forum but got little response so I am restarting it here.

My 12 year old son has expressed an interest in hand loading as well as accuracy shooting.

I would like to purchase a rifle for him with the following requirements:
Managable for a strong 12 year old.
Reloadable.
Inexpensive.
Accurate at 100m, possibly more if interest grows.
It would be nice if the rifle was interesting as well and had parts that can be upgraded and serviced to help him learn both maintainance and the evolution of accuracy.

The rifle will not be used for hunting so weight is not an issue.

I would like to stick to lower recoil guns so I can buy cheaper scopes if possible, I am not sure what caliber the scope prices jump at.

Thanks in advance

Josh

cz american in either .223 or 7.62x39. All I have seen are more than pretty accurate and the gun itself is cheap enough to purchase.

Brian

Go to Walmart and buy him a Remington 700 youth model with a synthetic stock. In my area they are $337 which may be a little more than you want to give for it. I suggest it because if he likes it, he can change out the stock and keep it a lifetime. If he doesn't like it you can get something for it in resale.

Your query sounds like a text book definition of a .223rem.

Pick an entry level varminter .223 from one of the big makers. Get a decent trigger installed. Go from there.

Stevens model 200 in .223. It's accurate. The gun is less than $350 ANYWHERE (can find them on sale for under $300 if you shop), you can upgrade the trigger and stock later, and even upgrade the barrel to a different caliber later if you wish.

.223 is cheap to shoot, and no recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
Go to Walmart and buy him a Remington 700 youth model with a synthetic stock.

I agree, and buy it in .223 Rem if you can get it. That will allow him to learn how to shoot without worrying about recoil - and keep ammo costs low, even at factory prices.

The advantage of the M700 is that you can upgrade it as you go along - new stock, Jewell trigger, better scope, blueprint action, new (custom) barrel. He can build on that rifle an entire life, and never really need a better gun.

Whatever you do, don't get the lad a rifle with a set trigger - I can't think of a worse way to start off kids shooting....

- mike

For what you are stating I'd also recommend a Rem 700 as well.

About the only other caliber I would consider is 22 hornet in something other than a ruger, I think it is a better starter cartridge but not by much and certainly will not be as cheap with factory ammo as a 223 can be, and the 223 can be downloaded to match the ballistics of the hornet.

I'd go 223 also. Plenty of nice 223 rifles out there to pick from.

quote:

Originally posted by Slowpoke Slim:
Stevens model 200 in .223. It's accurate. The gun is less than $350 ANYWHERE (can find them on sale for under $300 if you shop), you can upgrade the trigger and stock later, and even upgrade the barrel to a different caliber later if you wish.

.223 is cheap to shoot, and no recoil.

Josh , At this time me and my 4 Stevens mod. 200s are not in love with each other. Get something better. I've had a little trouble with the CZ 527 American but it seems nobody else has, maybe that is th way to go let's sayin .223 roger

Remington 700 sps. 243 or 223

Get him a Remington 700 sps in a 243 win. It is really accurate and there are a lot os parts that can be upgraded. Stock, barrel, bolt assembly, trigger.
As far as scopes goes, you can get a lower line Nikon or Leupold at walmart for $200 give or take. Once you experience a cheap scope you will understand why they are classified as "cheap".

Thank you all so far for you advice. So far the opinions have mirrored my own in terms of caliber. I will probably ask him to research it himself a bit and have him chose between .223 and .243, both seem to have nice balistics.

I own a Rem700VSS/P and had assumed that all 700's where expensive, so I had not considered one. I will look more closeley at them, I have heard that newer 700's sometimes come with crappy triggers, but thats a cheap easy to replace component.

Any other riffle makers I should consider?

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/

These guys were disposing of the US inventory of Steyr Mannlicher rifles for a fraction of the retail price. They might be all gone now, but they are worth a call to see if the have a 223 or 243 prohunter left in stock.

quote:

Originally posted by Joshua43214:
I would like to purchase a rifle for him with the following requirements:
Managable for a strong 12 year old.
Reloadable.
Inexpensive.
Accurate at 100m, possibly more if interest grows.
It would be nice if the rifle was interesting as well and had parts that can be upgraded and serviced to help him learn both maintainance and the evolution of accuracy.

The rifle will not be used for hunting so weight is not an issue.

I would like to stick to lower recoil guns so I can buy cheaper scopes if possible, I am not sure what caliber the scope prices jump at.

Thanks in advance

Josh

I don't disagree with the previous responses except that their idea of cheap is not mine.

With the teaching role in mind, I'd suggest picking up a Yugo Model 48 at a gunshow, and upgrading it together. It'll be more expensive in the long run, but the experience will be invaluable. Since he is to be learning shooting and reloading at the same time, recoil should not be an issue.

On scopes, even inexpensive scopes can be satisfactory IF you stick with a fixed power. I've been very satisfied with Swift. If you want a better known brand, the Nikkon Buckmaster is reasonably priced in a fixed 4x.

I second the observation regarding fixed power scopes.

The cheapest calibers to shoot are .22 rimfire, .223, 7.62x39 and .308. The .243, .270, .30/30 and .30/06 are also reasonable. Nobody has suggested one of the used .30/30 floating around, but they are also a viable option, and usually inexpensive. If you are going to reload, I personally would pick a .308 and just download it to .30/30 velocities; managed recoil ammo is available, but is more expensive than the regular stuff.

I seem to recommend the .308 a lot. It's pretty boring; all it does is kill deer and pigs like clockwork.

Stevens 200 in .223. Can easily upgrade to any short action caliber. Barrels stocks trigger change, by owner when ready to upgrade. My .308 with SSS trigger and bedded lug will shoot cheapest federals under 1/2" 3 shot group, and the worst load Fed fusion in to under 1 1/4" Lots of heavy barrel and stock options as this is an opld style Savage 10. Stores around here sell for $275 ish. Shoots better than either 700 rem I own, by far, although after some work the .223 shoots 1/2" to 5/8".

cz 527 american in 223 will work perfect but a ar-15 would be more funn.

I got my kids a youth savage 243. Kid #4 uses it now. It's bagged several whitetails, muleys, pronghorns, prairie dogs, picket pens, chipmunks, etc. I think it now comes with the accutrigger. It's inexpensive, accurate, and ugly.

While the suggestions of the Remington 700 SPS and Stevens 200 are good, (I have a 700 SPS Varmint in .223 and a Stevens in .243), another rifle to consider is the Howa Lightning in either .223 or .243. They are now available with a Hogue overmolded rubber stock, which should be an improvement over the previous Butler Creek tupperware. (Yes, I have one of the older ones in .6.5x55) It is a nice action, although a little heavy. They should run $50 to $100 less than a Remington, and represent good value. Much smoother action than a Stevens, better finish than my SPS. Made in Japan, if that matters. Same rifle as a Weatherby Vanguard, except the Vanguards come with a 24" barrel, the Howa with a 22" tube in the non-magnums.

I would shop for a used gun in .223, 243,260, or 7mm08. The money you save could pay for the trigger replacement of lightening. I'd probably go for the .243, 260 or 7mm 08 because it would give him more flexibility if he decides to hunt deer later. I also like stainless for a boy or girl because it lowers maintenance. I saw several dandy used Model Seven's last week bumming around gunshops in Montgomery AL. The size and balance of a Model Seven are good for a small framed shooter and the youth model is particularly nice.

Being you do not plan on hunting with the rifle I will side with the .223 camp. Very inexpensive to shoot with next to no recoil. Plus if he does decide to hunt it makes a fine varmint round.

Stevens 200 or Savage in 223!

I've gotta agree on a 223Rem in a remington 700.

There is really nothing in that combo that leaves all that much room for improvement.

My personal toy is a 2005 700VSSF with a 6.5-20 scope on top.

To be honest this scope is the first scope I've ever owned with mote than 12x magnification
and it's neat to be able to distinguish individual bullet holes getting bigger as a second (or third) bullet enlarges the hole.

It EASILY makes "smiley faces" out of 1" target pasting dots at 100yards with USA brand 55gr ball and is FAR more accurate with any of a dozen different bullets handloaded
on top of varying charges of benchmark.

AD

Rem model 7 in 7mm-08. Light weight, low recoil, and should he decide to go deer hunting he will be set.

TerryR

Thanks again all of you for the response.

Lots of good advice, I don't see any real reason to vary from what has been stated.

It should be interesting to see what he choses to go with at this point. I assume it will take several months for him to decide on something and for me to raise the cash and find time to shop. I will post he choice when I know it.

Get a .243 Win not a .223! Just a more versatile round if he decides to hunt. Can't go wrong with a Rem 700 in this case.

Hi Josh,

Sorry I'm late on this post, but haven't seen this section till today. I agree with the.223 choice. You might want to consider a NEF Handi Rifle. Since you say weight is not an issue this might be the one. A bit heavey, yes. Great shooters. Nef has an excellent barrel accessory program. You can buy several different barrel for the same stock. .223,.243,7mm08,308 etc.
I have a Handi in a .223 and a .243 with Bushnell 5X15 legend series scopes. Both are great shooters and I think would be great for a youngster. Would teach him patience since the Handi is a single shot.

Just my opinion. Hope it helps. You can get the rifle for about 200$ or less and an additional barrel is less than 100$. Go to NEF 1871.com and check it out.

Tony