I came across a used SAKO AI Hunter in .17 Rem. at a gunstore the other day. I like the small SAKO firearms, but have reservations about the .17 Rem. chambering. My prejudice is the result of reading many gun-mag articles that have almost universally concluded that it is difficult to achieve good consistent groups with the .17 Rem. The gunstore counter-man assured me that my reservations were groundless, and that I should be able to get 1/2 moa groups with this light rifle. What has been your experience with the .17 Rem.? Is this gun worth gambling on?

rollinghills

I think the Sako is quite similar in performance to the Remington 700BDL in .17Rem. This is directed to the caliber, not the rifle. The .17 will definitely shoot well, whenever it feels like it!
It's very common to get .45" groups (5shots at 100yds.) preceded or followed by 1.2" groups.
It seems to do as it damn well pleases. This has been my experience shooting good, accurate handloads in near perfect conditions. She's a bit of a fouler to boot, needing to be cleaned every 15 rounds or so. Yet, I love mine. If nothing else it has taught me humility. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

rollinghills,

My Kimber of Oregon M-84 .17 Rem. shoots half-MOA regularly, with a sporter-weight barrel and a Leupold 3x-9x scope.

The canard about .17s being problematic with regards to accuracy has more to do with keeping the bore clean than with anything else.

Buy the rifle, and clean the barrel using a product like Sweet's 7.62 or Hoppe's Benchrest copper removers.
Fire three fouling shots, then shoot for groups. I think you'll be very happy with that little Sako.

George

Thanks for the replys. Cal's "challenges" with his .17 reinforce my concerns. I already have a enough reloading challenges with my K-Hornet. I think that I will give this SAKO a bye.

rollinghills

Aw, don't give up so easy!
I have a .17 Remington (Remington 700 Classic) and it's as much fun to shoot as my .22 Hornets.
I shoot Moly coated bullets, and ran 50 rounds through the .17 without cleaning one day (forgot the cleaning rod that day ) with no deterioration in accuracy!
Additionally, it's a real gas to send those little pills downrange at 4,000 + fps! At 100 yards, there's not enough flight time for a cross-wind to move them much!
I'd give that Sako another thought, if I were you...
Regards, George

Ditto to what GeorgeS and George C have said.

I get consistant 1/2-5/8 groups with Hornady bullets (not the most accurate bullets made for this caliber). Don't give up on the cartridge just yet.

Rollinghills,

As a general rule .17 caliber rifles shoot just fine. Barrels and bullets have gotten better over the years. I have a .17rem 9 twist chambered on a Nesika Bay single shot. I just shot 6 matches at 600 yards this past weekend at Butner. The target is the conventional highpower target. 2 sighters and 20 rounds for record. My scores were as follows.

199-11x
197-9x
191-?x
198-10x
199-14x
199-8x

as you can see the correctly set up rifle can yield good results. Reading the wind flags and mirage does not hurt.

Any questions drop me a line.
919-554-2805 est til 10:30pm
corbinshell@mindspring.com

Corbin Shell

Thanks for the replys.

Hollywood : They were asking $800 Canadian (about $600 US) with SAKO scope mounts and a cheap 4X12 scope. I would have bought it .222 or .223 caliber.

GeorgeS : My "K" Hornet is the .22 version. It is a BRNO ZKW 453 that was so chambered when I bought the rifle.

Special challenges for achieving accurate loads with this rifle are : 1.The twist is a slow 1 in 16 inch. 2.The throat is so long that a 60 gr. Hornady Spire point is the shortest bullet that can actually be loaded out to touch the lands. (of course this bullet would never stabilize with the 1 in 16 twist. Most light .224 bullets have to jump about .15" to reach the lands.) 3.The chamber neck is very loose and allows for about 0.010" expansion.

I have put a couple of thousand rounds through it looking for the perfect load. Many loads that show great promise at one range session never repeat the results subsequently, and I only shoot it in low wind conditions. Although several loads are repeatably accurate, they are of limited utility. The two best are :

1.Rem. brass, Rem. 6 1/2 primers, 13.8 gr. RL7, and Hornady 45 gr. Hornet bullets give average 5 shot groups of 3/4 inches ctc at 100 yards. The muzzle velocity is about 2350 fps, which is too much for small game and pretty anemic for groundhogs.

Win. brass, Win. WSR primers, 11.4 gr. H4227, and Hornady 40 gr. VMAX bullets give average 5 shot groups of 7/8 inches ctc at 100 yards. The muzzle velocity is about 2700 fps. This would probably be adequate for groundhogs except the 40 gr. VMAX bullets do not expand reliably at this velocity. The only groundhog I have harvested cleanly with this load was shot at 160 yards squarely in the rump. The bullet traversed the entire length of its body and exited through the neck. Obviously not highly explosive performance.

Everyone else : Well you nearly have me convinced, maybe that SAKO does deserve a second look.

rollinghills

Don't let stories of a fouling Remington spoil your chance at that Sako; they are two different beasts. If it's in good shape I don't see how you could go wrong.

Chris

rollinghills:
I have that exact rifle. If I were you I'd snap it up at that price. Mine averages a bit under .4 with Hornady 25 gr bullets with a Moly coating. I shoot H-414 powder. I'm a small caliber guy and have several 222's and PPC's but that Sako 17 is a favorite.

knobmtn

don't be afraid of the 17. had about 5 or 6 and didn't see any problems with any of them. at the moment i've got a kimber and a custom martini in 17's and they both go under .5 MOA I think the press of the 17 is sort of like the press the swift had 70 or 80 years ago. the pricetag on the sako is excellent, I'd snap it up in a minute. I think your problems with the K hornet is that you're using to heavy a bullet with 60 grs. the twist I think won't stabalize a 60 grainer at hornet velocity. I used to use 4227 in K hornet, but have switched to lil'gun. it gives me another 200 FPS with no more pressure. (I think about 13.5 grains with a 40 grain ballastic tip but i'm not sure) anyway usually the k-hornet was a solution to hornet problems. You might try loading some FMJ's for pelt damage, or even using full velocity 35 gr V-max (they usually don't exist)(and neither will a 17)

Here's another vote to buy the rifle and a little story about my 700 Classic in 17 Remington.

When I first got the rifle I used plain bullets made by Hornady and Berger and got nice groups if I cleaned the bore every 15 shots or so. That ended up being too much cleaning and not much shooting from my perspective. One day I decided to fire 50 rounds through the barrel without cleaning and the accuracy went to $hit at the end of the string. I cleaned the heck out of the barrel with Sweets and Shooter Choice and the next trip to the range the accuracy returned to 80% of normal and slowly improved with additional cleanings during the day. When I got home, I cleaned the barrel again, then gave it a good scrubing with JB, followed by Kroil. The rifle sat clean until I had some moly coated bullets to fire down the barrel. What a difference! The rifle shoots better than ever and 50 shots without cleaning isn't a problem. At the end of the day, a couple brush strokes with Shooter's Choice, a couple patches soaked in Shooter's Choice, followed by Kroil and it's clean and ready to go
for another 50 rounds.

I shoot uncoated bullets in my .17rem 700BDL,and get WAY! over 15rounds before accuracy deteriorates, I usually run .5" to .7" but all this positive talk of moly bullets may just get me to try em, got me curious now.

Rollinghills, don't let Cal discourage you from getting a 17 Rem, he's been complaining about his for as long as I've been here. No harm meant Cal . I personally have been getting to know this caliber for the last year and a half and have come to love it. Infact I find myself taking it with me coyote/bobcat hunting more than I do my 22-250 anymore. Mine is a CZ Varmint and I have had no problems with accuracy, it is a consistant .5 inch shooter or better if I can hold it. I shoot only hand loads with berger 25g molyed bullets and have shot over 50 rounds w/o accuracy suffering. Kills are quick and clean with little or no hide damage. If I were forced to give up all my varminters but one I would lay awake for a week trying to decide between the 22-250 and the .17, but all the rest of them would go.

Don't let Cal scare you off, that's his standard reply whenever the .17 Remington comes up, Cal needs a different rifle. My CZ puts group after group right at 1/2 inch. I clean every 25 rounds, but I do that with all of em anyway so no problem. Also I'd bet if you got 20 Sakos and 20 of the Remingtons like Cals the Sakos on average would shoot circles around the Remingtons, at least that's my experience.
Cal ole buddy, you gotta quit poisening the well. LOL
I love my .17's!

Don't get me wrong. I really like my little .17Rem. It's terrific watching your shots strike home. I've shot groups as small as .260", and that's nothing to sneeze at in a sporter weight barrel. I just wish it were more consistent. I don't think I've ever had two good groups in a row. Possibly other .17s are better than my Remington 700. I don't know, but I'm not going to lie and sing its praises. Best wishes to all.

Cal - Montreal

Cal,
I wouldn't sing your Remington praises either. The problem is that you seem to group all 17 Remington chambered rifles and the caliber itself into the same catagory as your own Remington.

Ironically, Remington, who brought the 17 Remington into the main stream, is also responsible for a lot of the 17's bad rap on account of their sub-par barrels.

Chris

CISCO,

I've had a Model 700 for 8 years now. I must admit the relationship at first was a little rocky until my dad got a subscription to P.S. and bought the Benchrest Primer. Then we heard about a little thing called moly and Berger bullets. Ever since the rifle has shot under 1/2" groups with a factory barrel, slight cleaning every 30-40 rounds or so. Patience and high quality components are key with the 17 Rem. I must agree though Remington is responsible for the bad rap and I probably got lucky with the one I've got.

I've had pretty good luck with the 17Rem. My present one is a custom build by Dan Dowling and is on a 40x action. Even when I used a factory 17Rem never had the fouling problem that most talk about. I try and keep the velocity in the 3850/3900fps range and my powder choice is IMR4320. I still have about 1K of the old rem 25gr bullets left and have been using some Bergers with good luck. Most of the problems I have seen for myself with other 17Rem is velocity and seat the bullet to close. I also shoot a 17machIV. They do take alittle more care than say a 222. I've been shooting the 17's now over 30yrs and still enjoy them. With the heavier bullets now and those 1/9 twist barrel will help the 17 cal. I'm not a fan of Moly and with plain bullets I get 70/100 rd before running a patch only problem I have is the wind.