The 223 is plenty able to take whitetails, I've taken 4 mule deer with one and one of those was a 28" wide 4x5. He was shot at 200 yards in the shoulder and didn't take another step, neither did any of the others. They all droped where they were standing.

As far as the 223 as being a 250-400 maybe 500 yard coyote gun now thats a stretch. I would say that A GOOD shooter with extensive time behind the trigger could make a 223 a consistant coyote gun at 350-375. But consistantly?? I would look at the 22-250+ class cartrige if your wanting to make those type of shots. I'm not saying that it can't be done, but for consistant kills at long range the 223 is not the best choice. The 22-250 will also be alot more effective on deer, alot more energy delivered to the target.

Just a quick story to follow up my point. Yesterday we went out coyote hunting, it was a tough day for calling we only called in two coyotes. One was at about 200 yards walking away after he made us (oops) got him with my 22-250. The other hung up at 300 yards sitting on a little hill across the valley. The partner shot (with a 223) and missed. And the lead slinging was on, I got him stoped with my second shot at 450 yards running with the 22-250. Now I'm not saying that you couldn't do that with the 223. But I know that I hunted coyotes with a 223 for many years and I would have had a hard time make that shot with mine. The extra speed really helps in both flat shooting for long shots and running shots. Just my 02, hope it gives you something to think about.

Olarmy -for what it is worth I have quite a bit of experience taking big game with the 63 Sierra (mainly out of a 22/250 and a Swift).

If you have any questions then feel free to fire away (pardon the pun)

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

You could just buy a tupperware stock for the .243 you have already so you don't scratch the walnut.

As far as barrel life, I have in excess of 3200 rounds through my Remington 700 ADL, all full power non-moly loads. It shoots as good as it did when it was new. Not 100%, but I think the military gets 4-6000 rounds out of their M-16 barrels and they get really abused. I take care of my barrel and would expect it to last at least this long.

How does the barrel life on a 22-250 compared to that of a 223 and the 243?

Thanks folks!

Depends on how it's taken care of. If used for prarie dogs or sage rats where you sit down within a couple hours and put 250-300 rds down the barrel. Its not going to last all that long (with hot loads). The 243 and the 22-250 IMO are about equal for barrel life, given the loads are of equal pressures. You should get 2000-2500 rounds out of a 22-250, 243 barrel. Maybe more depending on how you treat it. The 223, loaded up to pressure will get you double that. Barrel life isn't IMO an issue as much as the effectiveness of the rifle round you choose. Get the one that will do the best job for you. 2500 rounds is allot of shooting, in high power comp. we shoot the 223 and we shoot about 2500 rounds a year through a gun. And it will take me several years to shoot that much through my 22-250, but I don't really have a good place to shoot sage rats or prarie dogs either, just coyotes, bobcats, and fox. Anyway hope that helps

Bearcat--"DWS"===darn well said

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

Mark: thanks for the offer to share your experience. From what I have read, the 62gr Win and 70gr Speer were designed for deer hunting. Sierra lists their 63 gr as a "Varminter" bullet. What has been your experience with it in terms of expansion and penetration on larger game? I know that varmit bullets will kill deer quickly with lung shots. But in your experience, is this bullet "tougher" than the normal varmit bullet? Do you know how it would compare with the 62 gr Win or 70 gr Speer? Thanks for the help. Jim

What about the 60g partition?? I would think that it would be a great deer bullet. Oh and Mark thanks

Bearcat: you're right.... the partition would probably be an excellent choice. My situation is that I know my old 225Win loves the 63gr Sierra. I carry it around a lot for shooting "targets of opportunity" (coyotes & bobcats) during the off season. Would like to be able to use it with confidence on hogs and perhaps an occasional doe. Jim

I used the 63 grain Sierra from a .22-250 on a whitetail doe (about a million years ago). To the best of my recollection, penetration was adequate and expansion was not explosive. One of the best .224 deer bullets was the old Nosler Zippedo. I made a two-for-one shot on a couple of does with this bullet (again, about a million years ago). I came across a full box of them recently and am hording them for when I feel the urge to shoot a deer with .22 centerfire.

In the meantime, my hunting partner occasionally pots a doe for meat with a .22 centerfire, and he pays absolutely no attention to what bullet he's shooting. He never has lost a deer, either. Just shows that a lung-shot deer is just as dead when shot with a .223 as with a .375 H & H.

I killed a buck mulie with the 63 grain Sierra, but never recovered the bullet and thought it exploded on me. I didn't feel good about that kill, but will recify that in the future if I can get a good shot again at a deer with that bullet.

I also killed a doe mulie that same year as a .223 was I had to hunt with (in Rem M788). Used a 70 grain Speer semi-spitzer to make the 125-150 yard shot - EXCELLENT bullet! (est 1000 foot/pounds ME), an often overlooked and underrated projectile. Designed specifcally for killing deer from the .22-250 and .220 Swift, ot thats what Speer once claimed. Classic performance, hair sprayed all around the wound direction, hole the size of a golf ball under the hide, etc.

I also killed two mulies under a 100 yards with the former Nosler 60 grain Solid Base, from a .220 Swift. The doe was a head shot at less than 20 yards, looking straight at me, never knew what hit her. The buck was an offhand shot at 80 or so yards, that was sloppy as I couldnlt hold as steady as I wanted, but no rest was handy that was taller than the weeds and growth I was in. Buck got really sick with the broadside shot, but I tracked him and shot him in the head as soon as I spotted him trying to escape. He was lying on the trail trying to get up. Lungs were probably filling with blood I'm guessing.

Wounded and lost a pronghorn doe, my only BG ever wounded and lost when I let a friend talk me into trying a Hornady 60 grain hollow-point (actually the owner of the Sako .220 Swift I was using - that could drive tacks!). My shot on the antelope was broadside but I wasn't confident with it. Last I saw of the sage goat it was minutes before it got too dark, but the doe was looking like it wouldn't survive the night, head down a quarter mile away and would become a coyote banquet. I've been very leery of shooting BG with .224's since, and would prefer to have a larger rifle-back-up with a friend nearby if needed (or better yet, have a rifle in my hands designed to actually kill deer or antelope instead of 'winging it!'). But also see no reason why the Nosler 60 grain Partition shouldn't be a superb .224 bullet (if it was necessary to use something that small), and actually would like to see what that bullet can do on a whitetail or mulie, but VERY CAREFULLY TOO!!

Olarmy-here are a couple of thoughts bullets.

First off, I believe this to be a bit of a controversial subject-secondly I do believe that a shooter knowing his/her limitations that the big 22's can do some good work.

With the 22/250 and the Swift I've shot tons of varmints and small game. But more inportantly to this topic I've shot quite a bit of big game with them also.

Here are some of my findings in shooting (deer/elk/black bear and antelope) with said rounds.

The stouter bullets (the Nozler 60 Part-the Trophy Bonded-the X's) will all take down the above critters quite well. It does appear to me they do it a bit slower-not much but a bit than the regular bullets. That is really no big suprise to me because I feel the same way for the most part with the bigger cal's.

The bullets I've used the most are as follows

Trophy Bonded 55
Nozler Partition 60
Nozler Solid Base 55 and 60
63 Sierra
60 Hornady HP
55 Hornady

I've only seen one lope shot with a 64 Win-me thinks it is a good bullet-it killed the lope just fine at just under 300 yards. However to me shooting one critter with one bullet is no way to judge a bullet (just my opinion). I have heard from others that I trust that the 64 is a good bullet.

I tend to favor the 63 Sierra for all comers and aside from some shoots for PD's I just load one bullet in all guns any more including the big 22's. So for yotes/chucks and big game I just use the same bullet.

I have noticed that at around the 300 yard mark the bullets do tend to lose a bit of their shocking power. They still open up just fine and kill just fine but there is not that shock lights out effect like there is closer.

I did shoot a cow elk at 278 yards with the 60 Partition a couple of years back. She took the shot behind the left front ran about 40 yards and pitched over. No different than if I'd of used a bigger round. The bullet did exit by the way.

A couple of years back I took what a black bear that is in the top 25 biggest bruins taken in the state using the 63 Sierra. The shot came at 178 yards-it was quartering away. The bullet entered just in front of the hip bone and behind the ribs. It went out it adams apple. The bruin ran about 30 yards and gave it up.

So I absolutely believe they can work fine-I also absolutely believe one needs to know his and the bullets limitations and stay within it. Every year here I hear of big deer and elk taken with the 22/250--it'l work just fine if one puts that bullet where it is supposed to go.

Lastly for what it is worth I do feel that the big 22's are not the way to go for elk...they do work though. I mean once the lungs are wrecked what are they gonna do?

Just some thoughts on my experiences--please-I'd appreciate not getting a bunch of lectures on using such a small round. However if you feel the need then feel free to fire away--it won't hurt my feelers nor will it change the way I go about my business.

Have a super day!

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

Mark: thanks for sharing your experience...very interesting! Jim

I would not use a .223 factory load for deer, but using any of the bullets Seafire listed, the 60-grain Nosler Partition or one of the Barnes .224" X-types, I would! The 64-grain Winchester is highly regarded as a .224" bullet for game larger than coyotes.

Quite a few hunters I knew in TX used .223's for deer. But the deer there (Central TX) are pretty small fellows!!

Just to add my .02 cents worth. My rifle of choice for the Texas Hill Country whitetail is a Win Mdl 70 carbine with a 20" bbl. Since its purchase in 1987 this little rifle has accounted for 35 plus deer and 2 Aoudad rams. My bullet of choice is the WW 55gr SP, WW or Fed cases, WSR primers and 27.0grs of BallC-2. This gives a muzzle velocity of 3,075fps which is equal to the velocities measured of factory ammo. I try my best to keep max range of 125yds or less and neck shots if at all possible. And yes the THC deer are small as compared with other whitetail but the Aoudad rams are not. One was about 200yds and the other was about 65yds and both had the WW 55 bullets into the boiler room. Both went about 50 yards before expiring. Hope this helps in your decision.

Ol' John

Regarding the .223 Remington for deer: You can brush your teeth with a toothpick, also, but why would you want to?

Remember military barrels are chrome lined, for whatever that is worth as far as barrel life is concerned
Jason

GLC wrote
As far as barrel life, I have in excess of 3200 rounds through my Remington 700 ADL, all full power non-moly loads. It shoots as good as it did when it was new. Not 100%, but I think the military gets 4-6000 rounds out of their M-16 barrels and they get really abused. I take care of my barrel and would expect it to last at least this long.