Anyone got any info on these two cartridges, ballistics etc.

Try this...

http://www.rmvh.com/Pictures/wssm-1.jpg
http://www.rmvh.com/Pictures/wssm-2.jpg
http://www.rmvh.com/Pictures/wssm-3.jpg

Thanks Brad.Anybody got ballistics info.

Link below (hope it works) has the most I've seen on them:
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002077#000010

I can already feel a new Todd Kindler 20 cal cartridge coming up!!!

Thanks Danno. I'm one of the moderators at Predator Masters. That's where I heard about them but I can't find any ballistics on them.

Looks alot like a 22PPC or a 6mm BR.

Looks to me like Winchester has missed the mark by a mile on these.......if you read a few of the shooting boards , there were a good many rifle nuts whinnying , snorting , pawing the ground , and in general carrying on hoping a .25 caliber or maybe a 6.5 mm version of the WSM would come out . I have not heard one single person express interest in a .22 or 6mm version before the news of these two abortions .........

[ 10-18-2002, 19:03: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ]

Yeah, sdgunslinger, I'm with you. I was eagerly awaiting a 25 or a 26. I'm bummed now...wonder how long it could be until they bring out one of those, if at all?

It looks like the marketing department is taking a hard look at sales figures. CF 22's and 243's sell very well. 25's and 6.5's for the most part, really don't sell.

Given their recent woes w/the WSM series, you have to wonder when these will see the light of day, especially with an entirely new action variant. I'd think they would want to sort out what they already have before they throw anything else into the market.

Premature product releases tend to become "consumer financed R&D" This is apparently the case with the current offerings.

I want a new 6mm rifle, but I think I'll wait on these for a while.

JimF

Have any of you gloom and doom sayers actually saw one yet? Have you at least have the chance to see a review?
I think some of the posters have missed the mark on this one. Idiotic to render an opinion on something that you haven't seen yet.

We would all like some more info on this cartridge. I would like case capacity figures for one.
Before I open my mouth and condemn anything, I'll wait and see some more facts.
Some of you are pretty closed minded.

Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
303british.com

Right on Steve. I think anything new is good for our sport, whether I need, want or buy it. Somebody will. Anything that generates positive interest in shooting sports can only make things better for all of us.

If it doesn't work for you quit bitchin' and do sumthin' to make it work.

Geez, when a hidebound .303 fan has to be the one to come forward to admonish us to give something new a chance -- we have to confess to being old fashioned curmudgeons .

Actually I think the case and actions have some potential.

Fireplug

I'll let you guys in on a secret. Not all of my rifles are 303s. I like to call coyotes too. I use either a 222, 6.5 or a 303 with 125 gr. bullets.
The 243 WSSM looks interesting. I can't wait to hear more about it.

Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
303british.com

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JimF:
[QB]It looks like the marketing department is taking a hard look at sales figures. CF 22's and 243's sell very well. 25's and 6.5's for the most part, really don't sell.
--------------------------------------------------

I agree with Jim F. I have no interest in the .25 or 6.5's for hunting rifles but I have a real use for .22's and .243's. I wish the neck of the .243 WSSM was longer. It looks like it's shoulder is further forward than the .223 WSSM to balance case capacity?

These rounds look like souped up versions of 22PPC & 6PPC. Surely this is long overdue. A short action, super efficient case which will match or better 22.250 velocities & have the accuracy level of PPC & BR cartridges - and you guys are whining about it?
Biggest issue will be lack of accurate (read close tolerance) factory rifles from USRAC to get the most from these cartridges.
I too was waiting for 6.5WSM, however I may just have to build my own. I don't see this as a drawback as factory Winchesters (at least the three Classic Stainless rifles I own) don't seem to live up to my accuracy standards. Good excuse to 'fix' the factory problems if you build one yourself.

I think these cartridges are fascinating. However, I'm really wondering if this is just a hoax. Did someone make some phony labels for ammo boxes and a couple of phony rounds to go with them?? Just wondering.

[ 10-24-2002, 21:21: Message edited by: LongDistanceOperator ]

I don't know if its a hoax or not but shawnie tooling is supposedly offereing reamers starting in December. The cases look larger in capacity than even a 6br. I had read on one of the other forums that the casehead size was the same as teh wsm cartridges.

i have seen the new browning catalog with a-bolts with 21" barrels it is not a hoax!

21" barrels? that's kind of short isn't it?

[ 10-26-2002, 02:37: Message edited by: Curtis_Lemay ]

The 6mm offering looks to be a natural to neck up to 6.5mm. Much more efficient than necking down one of the WSM offerings. Might just have to get an additional bolt for my present varmint rifle so the thing will be ready when I decide to test the waters.

Supposedly, the target velocity of the 22 was 200 fps over the 22/250. That would lead me to think we are dealing with a capacity of about 46 grains (water), or similar to the Swift. The 243WSSM probably will have about 60 grains, which would give us 240 WBY velocities.

How many times have we tried to replace the 22/250 now?

My solution? Neck the 223 to 257 cal, and the 243 to 6.5, and go hunting.... LOL! Dutch.

[ 10-29-2002, 01:52: Message edited by: Dutch ]

Dutch, why the differing case capacities between the .223 and .243 WSSM's? When you look at the pictures of the two of them next to each other, they look almost the same as far as volume goes.

Oh, heck if I know. Somebody, somewheres, thought it was a good idea, I suppose!

All of this is just scuttlebut, anyway. As far as I am concerned, it just means we got a couple of new, neat cases to play with. The 257 version in a mini-action will probably be my kids' first deer rifle. Just great for balance. Of course, nothing the 80 year old 250 Savage would not have done.......

More hype at:

http://www.westernhunter.com/Pages/Vol04Issue12/winproducts.html

Here's a bit of additional data about the new WSSMs which may help stem the growing confusion and misinformation. We have had a chance to inspect .223 WSSM cases where I work and I took following measurments. OAL is 1.666" (Compared to 2.93" for WSM case.) Base and shoulder are .5495" and .5360" (which is somewhat larger than my unfired .300 WSM sample, which is .5320 at shoulder.)Rim to shoulder is 1.1625." Water capacity to top of neck (Normal measurement) Is 52.4 grs. For capacity comparisons, and your convenience, below are relative capacities. These capacities are actual, not calculated, and done here at the lab. Keep in mind that capacities will vary within a caliber, depending on make.
.22/250 Rem.=======45.2 grs
.220 Swift=========51.8 "
.22 CHeetah Mk I===56.2 "
So what the .223 WSSM amounts to is a short, fat case with capacity slightly more than the .220 Swift. Accuracy, as always, will depend mainly on quality of rifle. The WSSM case is for Large Rifle primer, which will probably discourage use by Benchrest shooters.
I hope this data will be of interest and some help.
Rusty

Rusty, I KNEW you would come through for us. Water capacities! Let the simulations begin! LOL!

Thank you, Sir. Have the dimensions been finalized? Dutch.

CORRECTION OF ABOVE POST!! I was too much in a rush (A bad habit, especially when dealing with cartridge specs) and mistyped the case length of the .300 WSM as 2.93" The correct length is 2.093" Hope I made no other mistakes. Sorry.
Rusty

Nosler says it's 2.100" Whatever.

Do you know what the twist will be in the 6m WSSM?

It looks as though they will be offering loads for the 6mm in 55g, 95g, and 100g so I am guessing it won't be that fast of a twist but just guessing.
I already see a 6.5 wssm Imp. in the near future for me.

Now that the reamers are out there I sure wish there was some way to come up with some brass. I would love to do the 6mm necked up to 6.5mm. Even have a rifle laying around just waiting. Anybody out there have a handle on a few hundred pieces of brass I could buy, beg or borrow???

Bruce, yeah, you and the rest of the world..... LOL! Dutch.

Hey Dutch, it was worth a try.

Bruce, it is my understanding that they have JUST finalized the final dimensions -- so they are only now starting to gear up for brass runs. I would imagine that they want "stock on hand" for orders at the Shot show in Feb.

So you and I will have to wait a month or so. Gives me time to save money for my Pac-nor barrel, though...... Dutch.

Does anyone know if itll need a magnum bolt face? or a 473 boltface?

Same boltface as the WSM, i.e. standard magnum. It's just an itsy-bitsy bit rebated. HTH, Dutch.