Outside of shooters ability what determines the maximum effective range of a round? I suppose if I'm using a heavily constructed bullet like the TSX I am bound by the 1600-1800 fps and its corresponding range limit of the round for proper expansion in regards to an effective range.

I have seen people take coyotes at well over 450+ yards with a 25-06 using a 75gr V-Max, but I'm thinking more along the lines of whitetail size game. I'm just trying to get a feel of my rifles', a 25 WSSM and 30-06, effective range. Personally, I like to keep it shorter than 300 yards.

Everything I have read says stay at 1000FtLbs or more of energy for whitetail.
Myself, I also say do a clean dispatch with a well constructed bullet placed correctly.

Smedley

That's kind of an open question, but I'll toss out a few things that I think need to be taken into consideration...

Enough remaining energy to cleanly take your intended game

Enough remaining velocity to reliably expand the bullet that you're using

Enough accuracy (rifle/bullet combo, not shooter) to consistently hit your target

Most everything else that comes to mind involves the shooter to some extent (flat enough trajectory, but the shooter still has to judge the distance accurately; streamlined enough to buck the wind, but the shooter still has to call the wind; ability to hold accurately enough to hit; etc).

Cold Bore's analysis is right on the money. The only thing I'll add to it is the shooter having the discipline to turn down less-than-optimal presentations and having the ability to recognize such -- something which only comes from lots of ammo being burned up in shooting from field positions and at varying ranges and under various conditions as well.

Bullets do funny things once you fall much below 1900fps impact vel. Yes, a hit in the vitals will eventually kill your game, but you'll have a long tracking job if that shot thru the lungs pencils in & out. I like 2200fps as a min. IV especially w/ a premium or super premium bullet. Now, we won't even get into wind deflection @ ranges beyond 400yds.

quote:

Originally posted by FlyingAce:
Outside of shooters ability what determines the maximum effective range of a round? I suppose if I'm using a heavily constructed bullet like the TSX I am bound by the 1600-1800 fps and its corresponding range limit of the round for proper expansion in regards to an effective range.

I have seen people take coyotes at well over 450+ yards with a 25-06 using a 75gr V-Max, but I'm thinking more along the lines of whitetail size game. I'm just trying to get a feel of my rifles', a 25 WSSM and 30-06, effective range. Personally, I like to keep it shorter than 300 yards.

Well I can't give you anything on the .25 but here is a current load I am shooting for Deer in 30-06 and it is accurate and shoots way flatter than I do. It is a possable 400 yard deer load for some but for me with my weak shooting skills it is more like a 250-300 yard load. Anything up to 400-450 Lbs taking this load in the sweet spot at 300 yards or less is going to be DOA.


Load Data
~~~~~~~~~

Name: .308 Cal, Sierra #2145 SBT, 165 grn
Ballistic Coeff: 0.474
Bullet Weight: 165
Velocity: 2813
Target Distance: 250
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect
0 yds -1.50 in 2813 fps 2899 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in 0.00 in
25 yds 0.05 in 2766 fps 2803 fpe 0.027 sec 0.14 in -0.56 in 0.05 in
50 yds 1.32 in 2720 fps 2709 fpe 0.054 sec 0.57 in -0.46 in 0.19 in
75 yds 2.28 in 2673 fps 2618 fpe 0.082 sec 1.29 in -0.27 in 0.41 in
100 yds 2.95 in 2628 fps 2530 fpe 0.111 sec 2.31 in -0.00 in 0.71 in
125 yds 3.30 in 2583 fps 2444 fpe 0.139 sec 3.65 in 0.34 in 1.08 in
150 yds 3.34 in 2538 fps 2360 fpe 0.169 sec 5.30 in 0.78 in 1.52 in
175 yds 3.02 in 2494 fps 2279 fpe 0.199 sec 7.31 in 1.32 in 2.10 in
200 yds 2.39 in 2450 fps 2199 fpe 0.229 sec 9.63 in 1.94 in 2.68 in
225 yds 1.39 in 2407 fps 2122 fpe 0.259 sec 12.32 in 2.67 in 3.40 in
250 yds 0.00 in 2364 fps 2047 fpe 0.291 sec 15.40 in 3.51 in 4.23 in
275 yds -1.79 in 2321 fps 1974 fpe 0.323 sec 18.88 in 4.46 in 5.19 in
300 yds -3.99 in 2279 fps 1903 fpe 0.355 sec 22.77 in 5.54 in 6.26 in
325 yds -6.61 in 2238 fps 1835 fpe 0.389 sec 27.08 in 6.75 in 7.44 in
350 yds -9.67 in 2197 fps 1768 fpe 0.423 sec 31.84 in 8.09 in 8.73 in
375 yds -13.18 in 2156 fps 1703 fpe 0.457 sec 37.04 in 9.57 in 10.12 in
400 yds -17.15 in 2116 fps 1640 fpe 0.493 sec 42.69 in 11.19 in 11.62 in
425 yds -21.58 in 2076 fps 1578 fpe 0.528 sec 48.81 in 12.97 in 13.22 in
450 yds -26.48 in 2036 fps 1519 fpe 0.565 sec 55.41 in 14.89 in 14.91 in
475 yds -32.08 in 1998 fps 1462 fpe 0.602 sec 62.69 in 17.04 in 16.87 in
500 yds -37.87 in 1958 fps 1405 fpe 0.639 sec 70.18 in 19.27 in 18.67 in
525 yds -44.32 in 1920 fps 1350 fpe 0.677 sec 78.31 in 21.71 in 20.69 in
550 yds -51.42 in 1882 fps 1298 fpe 0.717 sec 87.11 in 24.36 in 22.91 in
575 yds -59.21 in 1845 fps 1247 fpe 0.757 sec 96.58 in 27.25 in 25.30 in
600 yds -67.69 in 1808 fps 1198 fpe 0.798 sec 106.76 in 30.37 in 27.88 in
625 yds -76.88 in 1772 fps 1151 fpe 0.841 sec 117.64 in 33.74 in 30.63 in
650 yds -86.80 in 1737 fps 1105 fpe 0.884 sec 129.24 in 37.35 in 33.53 in
675 yds -97.44 in 1702 fps 1062 fpe 0.928 sec 141.58 in 41.23 in 36.59 in
700 yds -108.84 in 1668 fps 1019 fpe 0.973 sec 154.66 in 45.37 in 39.79 in
725 yds -120.98 in 1634 fps 978 fpe 1.018 sec 168.50 in 49.79 in 43.13 in
750 yds -133.89 in 1601 fps 939 fpe 1.065 sec 183.10 in 54.49 in 46.61 in
775 yds -147.58 in 1568 fps 901 fpe 1.112 sec 198.47 in 59.47 in 50.21 in
800 yds -162.03 in 1536 fps 864 fpe 1.160 sec 214.62 in 64.76 in 53.94 in


Above load is run over the chrony and velocity is average over numerous shots.

As some of you have read posts by me before......"don't shoot a bull in the ass with a BB Gun and expect him to fall!!!!"
For the 17HMR, 150 yards is the limit I'd expect reasonable dispatch on a varmint(eastern groundhogs) is!! YES, I've killed farther and called the shots but I wasn't using a Trashco 3-9 bought at the Wally World and shooting 5 shots to sight it in!!! I do have respect for the varmints I shoot at!!!
On deer sized stuff...similar reasoning!!! Using the 25-06, .260, 7mmMag, 300SAUM, with practice and good determination of distance, knowing the extended range drop of the bullets(click charts developed from YOUR OWN TESTING!!) and the wind deflection of said projectiles at those distances, shoot them to 600-700-800, 1000 if you want too!!!(knowing that the 25's are going to suffer a bit on the terminal end of this venture!!!!)
Bottom line is, "respect what you're shooting at!!" Them animals are just "trying to make a living" and eating food that's afforded them!! I don't care if it's 100 yards or 1000 yards....just be damn sure you know what you're doing before the hammer falls!!! GHD

Short story on long range shooting. My longest big game shot was on a huge double shovel caribou at a paced 450 yds+/- with a 280 Rem 140 gr Barnes and a 3-9x Leupold...bang flop and a long walk to the critter. When I got there
it was clear that I had shot an average single shovel bull with a little rack...how could this be?? I only took the shot because it was a "once in a lifetime" bull according to my guide. There was a significant amount of ground shrinkage involved....it tasted good, but it was not a trophy. At 450 yards, it looked like a great animal...it wasn't. What did I learn...carry good spotting scope and keep my shots at 300 yds or so. I ahve killed a lot more animals under 200 yds than I have over 200 and I thnk I can live a full life and keep it that way. BTW, my new favorite gun is a Contender rifle with an 18" Bullberry in 7 mm TCU...5lbs - 11oz with a 2-7x Leupold compact. It is 5 lbs lighter than my H&R Ultra in 20 ga. 6 shots, 6 deer...longest is 130 yds and closest was 25 yds...hell of a gun!!

Thanks for the input. I know the importance of good shot placement, so that goes without saying. I was just interested in what other people's opinions and/or self-imposed limits were, as well as, what their experience was/is with proper bullet expansion at varying velocities for their given hunting loads for whitetail size game.

Jim-most all has been said that needs to be said, but I'll go anyway.

Ability= practice is what it takes, I shoot a lot 2500-4000 rounds a year. This does not include the 223 rounds at targs and rodents. I shoot a lot from field postions (the bench teaches technique and trigger control but that is all it is good for). I aim for (pardon the pun) MOA groups out to 700 yds.

Discipline= know when to shoot and when not to and to stay within it. 2 years ago I passed a shot on the last day during a blizzard at under 200 yds on a nice carp deer (muley). I was not 100% sure I could tank it on the first shot given the conditions and the rest.

Bullet (needs to be able to open and perform


That is about it, it is not very tough to find a round that will shoot to 500 and a good distance more if the shooter has the skills.

Mark D

Jim,

My criteria is I prefer the bullet to be clocking 2000 fps when it arrives, when launched from a high velocity rifle, so that defines the max range for a paticular bullet/chambering.

With that said, then it comes down to the rest of the picture, ie is the rifle accurate enough, and can I shoot the rifle to it's capabilities? Along with the capabilities is the necessity for a good lazer rangfinder for taking shots at 400 yds and beyond, even the hottest setups drop fast past 400, and no one is good enough to judge distance accurately enough to correspond for bullet drop at those ranges.

I'd say there are alot more rifles than shooters that are capable of long range shooting. But with sufficient practice, the right equipment and being honest with your abilities and shooting conditions, one can look on out to 600 yds.

quote:

Personally, I like to keep it shorter than 300 yards.

Yup....very few hunters can actually shoot well enough to go beyond this.

Try an Horus Vision scope. With some practice you will be suprised how far you can reach. The important thing is you are actually putting a reticle on the target. Humans do that well. Holding off the target is very hard to do from a neuropsych standpoint.
lawndart

I always thought it was important to follow what Clint (Eastwood) said, "A man's has go to know his limitations" I think that's important for you to know your limitations, not for you to impose on me your limitations!!! Everyone owns different equipment and skills and how someone can say not to shoot beyond xxx yards is humorous at best.

I believe what teancum said is so important and I might add, if you are going to shoot game @ long range, limit your quarry to varmints. I find no sport in shooting deer or elk @ long range. That is not hunting, that is just killing, and that is if you make a clean shot and the bullet performs as it should. People are better off improving thier stalking/hunting skills on big game. The hunter is better off for it and so are the animals that they hunt.

I fired a helluva lot of .30-06 and .308 at those 500 and 600 yard GI ranges, and oh yes, could hit the target and score well, BUT ya gotta remember that the bullseye was 12 inches across!! The shooting was all prone, iron sites, a tight sling, and all the time in the world too. How far is too far? Know your limitations, and as a matter of practice don't shoot at anything beyond the range that you KNOW you can reliably hit the target with enough energy to put it down.
LLS