The rimfires (all) lack the power for reliable kills on large varmints at anything other than very close range shots. If you willing to go centerfire than the .221 just can't be beat.

Far more accurate than the Hornet and will extend your range if you need it. Very fuel efficient and just plain fun to shoot.

C-NY

If you were looking to buy a 100-150yd varminter, would you get a CZ in .22Hornet or a Ruger 10/22mag & trick it out a bit w/ Fajen stock & bull bbl.? Ammo cost seems about the same & an optional 17Hmag bbl. would be available for the 10/22mag. Decisions, decisions.

Me, I'd get the Hornet - more options through reloading.
- mike

I vote for the CZ Hornet also. You can buy factory 35gr.V-max loads which shoot well. The hornet has alot more energy than the 22 mag. At that distance the Mag will drop quite alot. Price is probably close between the two with the stock and barrel. The cz 527's are nice guns.

Fred,

If you are going to look at that money range, why not consider one of the Calhoon calibers in 19 Calhoon ( Hornet case) or the 19/223 Calhoon.

I have really been impressed with them myself.

If I did not go that route, I would just download a walking weight 223, to 22 Hornet specs. Rugers UL and their 16.5 inch rifle in 223, looks like a great roving rig to me. Especially the smaller one would make a great truck rifle.

I use to love 22 Mags, but since I started playing with a 223, it is like being able to have a 22 Mag in a Winchester Featherweight to me. ( that is what I carry). Plus I can get any available bullets to shoot and also have a more accurate and flatter shooting rifle than in a 22 mag.

I'd like to get another Winchester Model 70 Ranger and make it into a 19/223 Calhoon. That would make a great field rifle.

cheers and good shooting
seafire

I bought a CZ 452 American in 17 HMR. Shoots under 1/2" at 100 yds. Unless you're talking coyotes this gun does nicely to 175 yds.

I'd look around for a used Marlin levergun in 25-20. They had a short run a few years back, also in 32-20. Either will do. Present production includes several by Marlin chambered in .357 Mag. Within the range you're talking about, you won't need the speed, accuracy or red mist index. They're easy to tote and accept glass. You might be surprised by their accuracy however.

I will cast my vote this way...for rimfire, the .17HMR will be flatter shooting out to 150 yards than the .22mag, and I think a better choice. If you are considering a centerfire, look at the CZ 527 American in .221 Fireball -- a more versatile cartridge and with better ballistics than the Hornet.

Dan,

Excellent suggestion that is too far overlooked and not even considered by many.

seafire

Seafire,

The .223 reduced load produced this group today.

It's 3/4" at 100 yards using 12.0 gr Blue Dot. It's about 2" low and 2" to the left of where I have the scope zeroed for 24.0 gr IMR 4895 with same weight bullet. It was shot in a .223 NEF Handi rifle!

See Paul,
It does a decent job for accuracy. With some of my bolt rifles I get groups that will touch if I do my part, and it has a bullet that it likes.

Thanks for posting that.
Cheers and Good shooting
Seafire

Since i'm in love with my new CZ 527 American Classic in .222 guess what. And so far with the Blue Dot it is a gem. roger

Seafire,

The Green Dot load isn't doing too bad either! I posted a link to the groups I shot today on the "early report on .223 and Blue Dot" thread.

Go with the .22 Hornet. No rimfire, magnum or otherwise, is good at 150 yards for any animal over 10 -12 pounds. This goes for both the .17 HMR and the .22 WMR. Lawdog

If your a handloader cartridges like the Hornet make no sense. Just download a 223 or Swift or whatever. I gave up on the Hornet forty years ago. Unless there was some law that you had to use it then you don't!

You can load them down but you can't load them up beyond their powder capacity.

The Marlin 17V 17HMR rimfire will reach 150 yards with a $200 rifle.

Mine went to the range once, and I don't know if it will go again. I like the .223 with Blue Dot better for the low noise option.

I too have a Cz 527 in 22 hornet, with 11.0 grs of IMR 4227 and a 35 gr V-MAX I am getting groups under 1/2 inch.

I also shoot a 221 fireball in a rem 700 classic. After installing an after market trigger it is shootin 50 gr V=MAX under 1/2 inch.

I don't think you could go wrong with either one.

shep

Thanks guys. GTB, I never thought of the .221. I used to have one in a Contender. Good brass could be made from .222 or .223. Mores decisions! The downloaded .223 is an obvious choice & may be the best way to go.

Remington makes factory brass for the .221 that I have found to be quite good, so you don't even have to form it if you don't want to!

Savage99,

The .22 Hornet makes perfect sense especially if you reload. A one pound can of powder seems to last forever with the Hornet. No recoil to speak of, quiet and extremely accurate. I have been using the .22 Hornet since back when it was a .223 caliber and their accuracy was not always that good. The Hornet almost died out a bunch of years ago but it has come back with a large following. I also own a .223 Remington, .224 Weatherby Magnum, .22-250(wife�s new No.1) and a .223 WSSM but when it comes down to shear fun shooting the Hornet can�t be beat. I have two Hornets now and possibility a third coming later this year. Lawdog

I'm with Garry on the Hornet. After lots of research, I decided the Hornet was perfect for the niche I was trying to fill. I went with the CZ527 American. No doubt the .221 Fireball is accurate but so is the Hornet. My last 100yd groups, of 16, were all but 2 under an inch. Average in .6's with a .202 and a .197 (I was working with 3 different bullets). For a person who already has a hot 22 centrefire and wants something cost effective to reload, accurate, quiet, barely heats up a barrel...a CZ Hornet will make you happy. There are a few reloading secrets I read about that seem to help in the accuracy department. That said, the .221 wasn't available when I bought mine. I wish I could have both! The trauma to a gopher at 150yds caused by a Hornet and 37gr Calhoon was surprising and impressive Good luck with your decision. The harder I researched, the more difficult my decision became. Ian

I almost didn't reply to this thread but after reading all the accolades of the Hornet, couldn't help myself!!! For 150 yards, the 17HMR due to it's inherrent accurcy(you can punch eyeballs with it) is the perfect chambering for that range......don't worry about spent brass either!! As far as the Hornet vs the other centerfires for that range.....get yourself a .222 Remington and be done with it!! Also there may be a varmint that sticks his head up at 250 yards!!! Now you've got one that will get him!!! The only way to change the perception of the Hornet is to go the "K-hornet" route! That get's it almost to the realm of the .222!! If I would have had a 22Hornet as a kid, or a 222Remington, or even a 22Magnum, there would be a severe loss of appreciable targets here in the East! Have fun with whatever you choose but there are better choices than the Hornet for your intended range!! GHD

Using Quickload to compare the 22 Hornet with .223 for velocity, powder charge, chamber pressure, and noise [muzzle pressure]

The .22 hornet is SAAMI specified at 47 kcup
The 223 is 55 kpsi

The best the 22 hornet can do with a 24" barrel, 35 gr. Vmax, and 13.6 gr. H110 is 3300 fps at 60 kpsi and 3.4 kpsi of noise
The best the .223 can do is with a 24" barrel, 35 gr. Vmax and 32.6 gr. W748 is 4000 fps at 60 kpsi and make 12 kpsi of noise
The downloaded .223 with a 24" barrel, 35 gr. Vmax, 15 gr. of Blue Dot, is 3300 fps at 36 kpsi, and 5.7 kpsi of noise
Another downloaded .223 with 24" barrel, 35 gr. Vmax, 12 gr. Red Dot, 3300 fps, a 60 kpsi, and 4.3 kpsi noise


The best the 22 hornet can do with a 24" barrel, 60 gr. Vmax, and 10.8 gr. H110 is 2500 fps at 60 kpsi and 3.3 kpsi of noise
The best the .223 can do is with a 24" barrel, 360 gr. Vmax and 28.4 gr. W748 is 3350 fps at 60 kpsi and make 10 kpsi of noise
The downloaded .223 with a 24" barrel, 60 gr. Vmax, 12.3 gr. of Blue Dot, is 3300 fps at 36 kpsi, and 4.5 kpsi of noise


A more typical 22 Hornet load would be 10.2 gr. H110, 50 gr. Vmax, 2500 fps, 43 kpsi, 3.4 kpsi noise
A more typical .223 load would be 29.3 gr. W748, 50 gr. Vmax, 3500 fps, 55 kpsi, 10.6 kpsi noise
A more typical .223 download would be 11.3 gr. Blue Dot, 2500 fps, 25 kpsi, 3.8 kpsi noise

When we download further:
A downloaded 22 Hornet load; 4.6 gr. Red Dot, 35 gr. Vmax, 2350 fps, 43 kpsi, 1.4 k psi noise
A downloaded 223 load 6.1 gr. Red Dot, 35 gr. Vmax, 2350 fps, 22 kpsi, 2.1 kpsi

If we download WAY down:
22 Hornet 2 gr. Red Dot, 35 gr. Vmax, 1500 fps, 11 kpsi, .7 kpsi noise
223 4.3 gr. Red Dot, 35 gr. Vmax, 1900 fps, 13 kpsi, 1.5 kpsi noise

What does it all mean?
A 223 can always match the 22 Hornet velocity, and often powder economy because it can use a faster powder.
The .223 never is able to do the job as quietly as the 22 Hornet, but the Hornet never gets down to the .5 kpsi noise of the 22 LR rim fire



--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.

If any of you have a Remington 591 or 592 (5mm Rimfire Magnum) lying around gathering dust, you might want to consider getting a centerfire bolthead, dies and brass from Schroeder.

Hornady 33gr V Max are available from Cabela's for about $13.50 per 100, and you can get more than 1000 loads from a pound of AA 2400.

I get 2450fps when I load the bullet out to the lands. O.A.L. is too long for functioning through the magazine so I use it as a single shot.

Without any other modification, the rifle will hold 1/2 M.O.A. to 200yds when I do my part.

2 1/2" high @ 100yds is dead on @ about 180yds and 2 1/2" low @ 200yds.

This load will carry more energy @ 150yds than the 17 Hummer does @ the muzzle, and costs about the same to shoot @ $.16 a round (Once the initial investment for dies etc. is made)

I,ll add an other vote for the 221 Rem. over the 22 Hornet. The 221 Rem. is easer to reload with longer case life. I have to trim the 22 Hornet cases after each time I resize the cases to get my Kimber rifle to shoot less than one inch groups. Hodgon LilGun is a good powder for the Hornet with 40 Gr. V-Max and 45Gr. bullets. The Rem. 700 221 Cal. likes 18.1 Gr Re 7 powder with 50 Gr. V-Max bullets. 3010 FPS 6/10 inch groups at 100 Yds. If you can read the comments about the 221 Rem. in the latest Hornady and Nosler Reloading books.

"It's gonna be mighty hard to beat the .25-20 for a 150 yard varminter. "
I think not.
I can understand your reverence for this fine minny 25 but it has been superceded by many so cartridges at any range.The absence of good bullets in the .25 cal.for varmints only serves to throw more dirt on its casket.There are some old cartridges that will be around for a long time to come but I'm afraid this ain't one of em. roger

Thanks for all of the input guys. I am leaning to a CZ in .221frieball if I decide to go cf. The 10/22mag is still in the back of my mind though. IT all has to wait until Xmas anyway, after hunting season, tags, etc.

tuck 2,

Quote:

---

I have to trim the 22 Hornet cases after each time I resize the cases to get my Kimber rifle to shoot less than one inch groups.

---

I have been shooting the .22 Hornet for over 40 years and I never have to trim that often. There are two Hornets in my case now and a third on the way(one for the wife as I am tired of her always borrowing my No.1). I usually trim very 3 to 4 loadings, depending on the case manufacture. What is it about the Kimber that is causing you to do that? Lawdog

The Hornet was my first 22 centerfire, some 30 yrs ago. Great cartidge, easy to reload, sometimes finicky, and did wear out brass quite fast. Have since never been w/o a Hornet (even had a K-Hornet Kimber once)....but since building a 221 Fireball about 13 yrs ago, it is my varminter of choice. Way over-efficient for its size, it got even better with AA1680 and LiLGun. Easy on the ears, and plenty accurate. These days, it seems CZ has made it a tough choice which to get, as their rifle made the Hornet more "user friendly", and many are using the Lee collet die to extend case life.
I own two 223's, and enjoy them also, but I guess I don't like using the light charges in any cartridge unless I'm shooting cast.
Like the Fireball so much, I recently got a rifle in its wildcat cousin, the 17 Mach IV! Even more fun!

Law Dog ---- I measure the cases after resizing the Hornet cases and have found more variance in length than I like. It could be the RCBS die or how reload. I resize about 3/4 of the neck in a full length die then trim the cases.It could be the rifle chamber. I group new cases by weight,beburr the flash hole,cut primer pocket to same depth,fullsize resize and then trim the cases. The Hornet cases are thin, so no neck turning . I,m retired so I have the time . I purchased a 221 Rem. rifle last December which I,ll use for Prairie Dogs this spring , will also use the 17 HMR.