I'm thinking about buying a new CZ in 22 Hornet or 22 Fireball.

How's the quality of the CZ rifles these days?

I like having iron sights so I'd prefer the 527 Lux, though I will use a scope. Does someone make a removable cheek riser?

So far as I'm aware the quality of the CZ's is just fine, and all I have had experience with have been above average in accuracy. I absolutely love the set trigger (but like the old double set trigger better).

That said, the CZ has numerous detractions which the manufacturer could easily remedy:

1. The root of the bolt handle is excessively thick, requiring a scope to be mounted far too high for proper eye alignment in order to clear the bolt handle.

2. The protruding single-stack magazine could be modified to a double-stack flush fitting model or made into an internal box magazine.

3. The finish CZ uses on its stocks is nearly opaque and obscures the grain of the wood.

4. Finally, and of most concern, is that the safety on the CZ 527 works BACKWARDS. That is, forward is safe and rearward is fire. This is, of course, unlike virtually every other rifle since the invention of safeties and invites a dangerous accidental discharge. I understand that CZ has just come out with a new action for its mid-sized calibers which apparently uses a safety that works the "right" way, so it is possible that they will soon drop the 527 in favor of an updated version without the widow-maker safety.

By the way, I own a Brno 465 Hornet, which has the predecessor action to the CZ 527. It also has the backward safety, so I NEVER use the safety, but rather keep the bolt handle raised (when a cartridge is chambered) until I am prepared to shoot. I never lend the rifle to anyone, and if I allow anyone to shoot it in my presence, I instruct them on how NOT to use the safety.

Stonecreek, thank you for the thoughtful reply. I fully agree on the safety, which is why I don't have one already. (I recall a US gunsmith made a gimmick to rectify this situation but gave it up when sales never took off.) I had already decided to tape over the safety so as not to fall into the old habits - no round in the chamber until ready to fire.

Re the scope height, will this issue be the same with the "American" stocks as well as the hogback? The handle root is the same, but maybe the stock design helps.

The question about the CZ quality came from a single post (not accuratereloading) in which a poster said the CZ quality was good until 2004, then bad until 2007, then hit-and-miss after that. I haven't been able to find anyone else reach that conclusion, but I thought I'd check.

Are there other quality rifles WITH SMALL ACTIONS that might be more suitable?

+1 to all that Stone creek has said, and I would add the following... I own a 2004 vintage 527 American in Hornet. The box magazine limits overall length, if that concerns you. Works fine in my case, but I'm not that critical. The action (bolt travel) felt rough at first but quickly worked in and is now satisfactorily smooth.

The barrel is quite accurate, and I am able to get .7 inch groups at 100 yards with a 6x scope. BUT, the Euro ' s seem to be quite stuck in the mud with some of the barrel technology. And apparently you can't tell them anything either... the .22 Hornet barrel could best be described as "pre war." It has a 1 in 16 rifling twist which will somewhat limit it's use to the shorter bullets. I slugged it, and it came out sort of neither fish nor fowl at .2232". It seems as if they were trying for the original .223" bore, but got it a bit oversize there, although not up to today's standard .224. And the crown was rough and uneven (I have found this on other CZ'S as well as a couple of other Euro guns). I get the feeling that this is something they don't pay a lot of attention to over there. In all, I would have to say that I prefer American barrel technology. Maybe conversion problems between metric and English? Or maybe just stuck in the past.

Given the bore dimension, I tried both .223" and .224" 40 grain Sierra Hornet bullets. Both shot well, with a slight edge to the .224", but nothing that would keep me from either one. I haven't tried to make it into anything but a Hornet.. standard loads, old fashioned bullets, nothing spectacular. And it's a nice shooter, good for maybe 150 yards, and for that purpose satisfying. But definitely a Euro take on the subject.

A friend of mine just got a 527 in 223. He was a bit disappointed, but the machining is pretty good. First, he was told that it came with rings. They're a special type, so he asked specifically about it. He was told that the rifle came with rings, but it did not. CZ customer service was not helpful here. He was quoted something like $60 for a set of rings?

After un-boxing and initial fondling, a patch was pushed through the bore before taking it out to the range. The patch had a noticeable "let-up" in friction about 6" from the muzzle. A few more patches confirmed that there's a slight bulge in the bore. He shot it anyway to see what it would do, and accuracy was not too great. Another call to CZ and they immediately said he must have had a squib load. No amount of explaining that every "bang" resulted in a hole down range and that the bulge was felt on a cleaning rod straight out of the box could dissuade the CZ rep. Anyway, it got sent in for evaluation, and the jury has been out for about a month so far. Before it was sent, a bore cam was run through it and there were several rings at different places down the bore.

Otherwise, the bolt runs a little rough until you work it in some. The trigger is a little wobbly side-to-side but the set function is nice. The general machine work puts remington to shame. Larger capacity magazines would be nice, but at least they're not all plastic. I think they did change the bolt handle in later versions for more scope clearance. If CZ will put a good barrel on it for him I think he'll be happy with it. Otherwise it will probably get a new match barrel in something like 22ppc.

quote:

Originally posted by Jaywalker:
Are there other quality rifles WITH SMALL ACTIONS that might be more suitable?

I noticed your second post. Check out the howa mini. I'm really happy with mine for the price, and it is a small action. A sako 461 is about the only other small action I know of that's actually more than a one off. Well, the Cooper M38 too I guess. Anyway:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...6711043/m/1491041322

http://forums.accuratereloadin...9411043/m/7291044912

Rings in the bore... they should replace it. But their customer service can be pretty obtuse, so I wouldn't bet on anything. Although accuracy was ok, I had an issue with a 9.3x62 (which by the way is a 2007 gun) and heavy metal fouling. They said it wasn't any worse than normal, said they fired 5 shots (without cleaning) probably just looked in the muzzle and sent it back. Took many patches,with 7.62 to get the copper out from those 5 shots.

I honestly don't think that they have anybody at their US facility who knows anything about barrels, although there seem to be a couple of young whippersnappers who think they do. And they don't replace barrels there. If they do the transaction there, they just replace the complete guns.

I'm sorry to hear about your problems with that barrel. I know I said above that I'm happy with my 2004 Hornet and I am. But as another poster said, it appears quality is spotty lately. And as I described and your recent experience seems to bear out, it looks like their customer service can use a serious tuneup. Personally, until I see that things there are getting better, I think I will hold off on any more CZ's.

Thanks, JPL - I'm researching the Howa now.

I've had a 527 a Mauser Mini and now 2 Howa Minis. Sold the 527 and Mauser. Only issue with the 527 was the safety. I had no issue with the mauser. The Howa in 223 and 6.5 Grenel. Haven't shot the 6.5 but the 223 shoots everything from handload to surplus sub moa. Trigger is great. Only issue is the plastic trigger guard and magazine.

I have 4 527's. 2 are 7.62x39 and I have one in .22 Hornet and one in .223.

All have been great. CZ recently made changes to the bolt handle to thin the 'root" section. handles are available from them.

I have modified my hornet, real simple to do, magazine so that I can fit cartridges loaded with the Hornady 50 grain SPSX.

None have ever given me a lick of trouble.

my 223 is now 19 years old. I got it right when CZ/USA was starting out. I love the rifle though my handloads won't fit in any other 223. The cz chamber is a tiny bit long.

The stock finish on the current ones are much better than 1997. I have added the flush trigger guard and short magazine.

After you get rid of burrs and sharp edges and hone the extractor so it doesn't get scratched so badly they seam OK. The $58.00 charge for the rings was a surprise as my first 527 came with rings. The second did not.
The customer service is a joke.
I was shooting my 527 .223 varmint today and with most loads it was MOA. roger

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stonecreek:
So far as I'm aware the quality of the CZ's is just fine, and all I have had experience with have been above average in accuracy. I absolutely love the set trigger (but like the old double set trigger better).

That said, the CZ has numerous detractions which the manufacturer could easily remedy:

1. The root of the bolt handle is excessively thick, requiring a scope to be mounted far too high for proper eye alignment in order to clear the bolt handle.

This is the single worst part about the gun...the reason I will not buy one....

Thanks for the improved bolt handle link, z1r.

On the topic of the mini Howa actions, do aftermarket barrel makers work on metric threads in the US? If so, I suppose that would open up the Fireball possibility, but not the Hornet because of a need to change the face.

quote:

Originally posted by Jaywalker:
Thanks for the improved bolt handle link, z1r.

On the topic of the mini Howa actions, do aftermarket barrel makers work on metric threads in the US? If so, I suppose that would open up the Fireball possibility, but not the Hornet because of a need to change the face.

I'm currently putting together my Fireball on a SA Rem 700. Why? because I have it.

The Howa is ugly as sin but the fact that it is a ready to go 6.5 Grendel has piqued my interest. I'm loathe to convert one of my 527's, and I never come across any used 527's for a reasonable amount.

quote:

Originally posted by Jaywalker:
...do aftermarket barrel makers work on metric threads in the US?

A lot of gunsmiths can cut metric threads. There are a few on old manual lathes that can't though.

The fireball would probably be a good match with the howa, and might even work with the magazines. The hornet would probably work with the 223 bolt face (it's pretty close), but I think you'd be single feeding them.

quote:

Originally posted by jpl:

quote:

Originally posted by Jaywalker:
...do aftermarket barrel makers work on metric threads in the US?

A lot of gunsmiths can cut metric threads. There are a few on old manual lathes that can't though.

The fireball would probably be a good match with the howa, and might even work with the magazines. The hornet would probably work with the 223 bolt face (it's pretty close), but I think you'd be single feeding them.

Change a gear and then DO NOT disengage the thread dial until the threads are cut full depth. Just back a d reverse really quickly!

I have a 527 American in 204 Ruger and have zero complaints. I bought it new about 2012.

Got a not that old (2013 made I think) 527 American in .223 Rem and really like it. Friend of mine recently bought (End 2016) a 527 in 7.62x39 and looks very well put together

For an update, after 3 months CZ got a 9 twist .223 Rem 527 back to my friend who sent his in for a bulge in the barrel and poor accuracy. They eventually sent an entirely new 2015 gun with rings, 2 magazines and a piece of paper with a 50m 3-round group of about 7/8" with some brand ammunition I've never heard of.

The new gun looks promising so far. Shot 50gr Vmax and some 69 Sierra Tipped Matchkings at about MOA at 200yds for the first few rounds with no real load work up.

So I guess that if you're patient the customer service is effective if not expedient.

In terms of what was delivered, the bolt handle is lower profile than the older versions I've seen and clears the scope fine. The recessed crown machining looks fine, there is a 3-round flush magazine option providing about about 2.325" max box length and Yes, the safety is still backwards.

Besides the root of the bolt handle is excessively thick, requiring medium or high rings for use. It would be nice if CZ would replace the rear sight with an adjustable one besides just windage.