I have heard a couple of people telling that the 22 hornet is one of the most difficult rounds to reload. And since ammunition is in short supply at very high cost in this country for us I would like to start to relaod for it.

What are the Pros and Cons is it really that difficult to reload for it?

i reload for 2 Hornets--a CZ 527 and a Martini 12/15. The brass is a little fragile but, other than that, it is no more difficult than other calibers.
Pete

Powder charges is what kind of gets people, a diff of ,2 grains might blow a case if you are at max.

Other than that, just get to it, a great round it is.

Best regards Chris

Well, it is small! That's the most difficult part. If you load with Lil'Gun, the powder charge reaches overflow point and is therefore easy to spill. I made a 'punch' device for compressing the powder to bullet seating depth and that solved that problem. It is actually a very rewarding cartridge to load for. There is a well kept secret too - the standard hornet is capable of more performance than the K-hornet with Lil'Gun! (It's a weird powder. Less of it in the k-hornet produces more pressure. Go figure!) Then there is that long neck. You can do tricks there. I load without sizing the neck and instead, seat the bullet in a paper cup arrangement. Plus, I headspace on the case mouth, so, I get zero case grouth and zero case failure. I even reloaded an old case that had a 'severe' insipient head separation ring several times with max loads and it still did not fail! (But it has now gone to ... 'that place'). I have spent many hours experimenting with my hornet. It has to be the greatest cartridge ever! And rediculously powerful for it's size!

Fredrick,

Ah! The pleasures of loading the .22 Hornet!

It can be a head-scratcher or pure simplicity. Take your pick but a .22 Hornet loaded just right for your rifle will deliver superb accuracy, plenty of shooting enjoyment and sometimes game-taking capability that is all out of proportion to the size of this diminutive cartridge.

We have Shooting Team that has @ 10 members who use the .22 Hornet for their target shooting applications so quite some exsperience and lots of componet usage and loads. Some demand 5-shot one-ragged-hole accuracy the others are satisfied with 5-shot 1.5" groups. But like you've already determined we've also decided the cost of factory ammunition is prohibitive for our copious shooting requirements - so we all reload. As factory ammo goes we consider RWS 46. gr. Jagd/Match the standard to which we all aspire and our default ammo in almost every rifle we've tried it in; it will deliver astonishing accuracy. #2 is easily W-W Super 45-gr. .22 Hornet loading. S&B has never delivered anything other than marginal accuracy for some and pure bunk for others.

Agree 100% with Chris' mention above on the powder charges. If you're the kind who just sorta dumps powder in a case this project is not for you. The smallest variations will show up on the target so care in powder measuring is critical; simply because it's such a small cartridge case. Same goes for case length (sorry, 303Guy) our experience shows ALL minor loading variations result in downrange varaitions, so the Lee Case Length Gauges (which are really a Case Trimmer) are used to keep everything uniform, too. The Die set-up is no different than any other case 'cept too much sizing (bumping the Shellholder) will cause case head separations so while not overwhelming; a little attention to detail when setting up the Dies to the chamber of your rifle will help accuracy & case life. A small amount of case lube is all that's required also - the cases re-size easily but while you may have success with no lube every 5th case or so - avoiding lube will eventually earn you a stuck case and the ensuing aggrevation.

I've never found the Small Rifle Primer vs. Small Pistol Primer to be THE definitive answer, IMO you sorta just have to experiment. We fortunately can obtain the RWS 4333 Primer here which is made specifically for their RWS Hornet ammunition and it is the best in my expereince, followed by CCI400's, then Remington 1.5 Small Pistol Primers.

Your cases will also be "an Amazament". We can obtain RWS cases which are very good quality but in comparison to W-W Super cases for example they are obviously much thicker since a W-W Super case will hold a full grain more powder BUT neither of these cases will hold many of the suggested maximum amounts of powder. Many recommended loads of fine, grained ball powders will fill a RWS case all the way to the mouth of the case and seating a bullet is next to impossible unless the charges are significantly reduced; so when researching loads and ultimately filling the case don't be surprised at variations. Again, the use of S&B cases with proven components from other loads resulted in dismal accuracy.

Powder favorites run the gamut but here would be our list of what gets used the most with success. #1 VV N-110, #2 Rottweil R910, #3 L'il Gun & #4 AA1680 but the overall accuracy & velocity differences between these good powders are minimal. I couldn't even begin to offer a suggestion as to what may be available from Somchem or locally in RSA as a suitable powder.

Bullets - Whew! You're on your own depending on what you can obtain locally. From our perspective the reigning, undisputed accuracy & terminal performance King is the RWS 46 gr. Jagd/Match Hollow Point. They are expensive but for those who elect to spent the extra Euros - they deliver the goods hands-down. Our #2 favorite is the Sierra 45 gr. Soft Point Hornet (#1210) followed by the Hornady 45 gr. Hornet (#2230) and then the bulk .224" 45 gr. Winchester Hollow Points and we've one dedicated .22 Hornet relaoder who is currently Kicking-Ass with the Hornady 36 gr. bullets & L'il Gun. Others may disagree but none of us has ever had any success with bullets heavier than the "standard" Hornet 45-47 grain weights, so our reco is avoid the 50 grainers (opinions vary). Even though the weight is optimal the 36 gr. Barnes Varmint Grenades have delivered "Grenade" like accuracy - so they're off our list, too.

Wow! Just wanted to relate some expereinces and ended up with a .22 Hornet Treatsie - sorry. Good Luck with your Hornet endevour. While certainly not the end-all here; there are a whole bunch of good .22 Hornet powder, bullet favorites and expereinces available - this is simply 30 plus years of .22 Hornet loading expereince from Guys who have shot 10´s of thousands of .22 Hornet cartridges.

Oh, to just answer your query: is it worth making the effort to reload the .22 Hornet - YES! Is it any more diffcult than loading for any other cartridge - NO!

Gerry,

Thank, you very much for such a good responce

It's not my rifle it's Charl's rifle but we load together and I can think of a lot of small aniamls that we can have fun with and the 22 hornet just gives that feeling of haveing a bigger edge than the normal .22 rim fires. Now we will need to shop for proper dies and etc.

Fredrick,

You're Welcome - you & Charl have fun with your Hornet project.

I also load by myself, with friends and for some my friends who prefer "custom" made ammuntion at much-o better prices than over-the-counter ilk. We just have a good time at it.

I have one Buddy who has a Drilling with a .30/06 Sprg. & .22 Hornet barrel. While certainly not recommended - he forgot to engadge his .30/06 Sprg. barrel one time and pluncked a Wild Boar with the Hornet cartridge by mistake. Well, after a longish track he found the expired Boar - it did the job, not quick but certain.

Nevertheless the Foxes, Badgers, poaching Housecats and associated ilk normally get dealt a case of 45 gr. .22 Hornet poisoning.

One VERY important point which I forgot to mention is that PRIOR to re-sizing any .22 Hornet case check the de-priming pin of the F/L Die Stem with the Flash Hole of the Primer Pocket of your cases. Some manufacturers are notorious for using undersized Flash Holes in .22 Hornets. You'll do some very colorful cussing when confronted with this dilema. In this case you'll have to obtain an under-sized Flash Hole Pin or drill out the Flash Holes. Neither is a big deal but bending, breaking or having the pins stick in the case are not any fun, either.

I don't have much to add to this, but the most difficult thing about loading the Hornet is the small case size and small powder charges. You have to pay close attention to what you are doing. (I guess you should do that with all your reloading.)

That would be S&B that you are refering to Gerry, right?

I for one have been blessed with a gift of some 150+ cases from RWS and they will most likely last me a good long time.

I for one would like Barnes to make a flatbase 40 grain TSX bullet to be used to get clean kills on small deer and other game intended for food, last time I took a rabbit, I only got half of it to come home with me..

Best regards Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:
Fredrick,

You're Welcome - you & Charl have fun with your Hornet project.

I also load by myself, with friends and for some my friends who prefer "custom" made ammuntion at much-o better prices than over-the-counter ilk. We just have a good time at it.

I have one Buddy who has a Drilling with a .30/06 Sprg. & .22 Hornet barrel. While certainly not recommended - he forgot to engadge his .30/06 Sprg. barrel one time and pluncked a Wild Boar with the Hornet cartridge by mistake. Well, after a longish track he found the expired Boar - it did the job, not quick but certain.

Nevertheless the Foxes, Badgers, poaching Housecats and associated ilk normally get dealt a case of 45 gr. .22 Hornet poisoning.

One VERY important point which I forgot to mention is that PRIOR to re-sizing any .22 Hornet case check the de-priming pin of the F/L Die Stem with the Flash Hole of the Primer Pocket of your cases. Some manufacturers are notorious for using undersized Flash Holes in .22 Hornets. You'll do some very colorful cussing when confronted with this dilema. In this case you'll have to obtain an under-sized Flash Hole Pin or drill out the Flash Holes. Neither is a big deal but bending, breaking or having the pins stick in the case are not any fun, either.

my t/c encore carbine was easy, 45gr rem bulk hp over max of lil gun and SMALL PISTOL PRIMER. gets me one hole all day long

Loading the hornet is one of the better reloading cartridges because of what you can create. Signifigantly better velocity and accuracy are easily obtainable when using LiL Gun or AA 1680, or Win 296. In that order in my experience. Frankly I would be suprised that you would ever want to use a powder other than LiL Gun! Yes the cases are a little bit fragile in the thin necks, and a little small for ham hands to handle, but with basic simple technique, it is more than worthwhile.

See! I told you the hornet was fun to load!

When I say I do not size my case necks, I do in fact trim them to keep them true. But because I headspace on the case mouth, there is no case elongation and all the cases remain a constant 35.72 mm long. When I trim, I trim to 35.70 mm.
But beware. Headspacing on the case mouth only works if one does not crimp! And maybe only if one does not neck size.

Gerry, I find it interesting that none of your buddies have any success with bullets over 45gr. I shoot 60gr Hornady SP's in my 1 in 16 twist barrel with good results. Mostly I use 55 gr bullets because they are cheaper and they do shoot flatter out to 200m. At that range, they perform the same as a 308 on turkey and only a little less than a 223. I have not chronographed my loads but going by trajectory and extrapolating from other loads I expect I am getting 2680fps with 55gr bullets and 2580fps with 60gr bullets. I have a load using Seirra 55gr BTSP's that seems to be doing around 2720fps (from the trajectory). But, once again caution. That is with my rifle and with my loading techniques.

I have found that the difference between neck sizing and not neck sizing with the hornet is a considerable decrease in pressure without neck sizing. To get the pressure back up, I need just a tad more powder and that is where I get these velocities with heavier bullets. My accuracy is nothing to write home about is better without neck sizing and those 160m magpies would vouch for that - except they are dead!

quote:

... pluncked a Wild Boar with the Hornet cartridge by mistake ...

And it died! That is interesting! I shoot feral goats with my hornet and it is plenty gun with those 55gr bullets. DRT's.

quote:

... but with basic simple technique, it is more than worthwhile.

Hell yes! Best loading fun I have ever had!

Ah... but... Safari-Hunt, there is a problem. You guys cannot get Lil'Gun. Damn! Still, MP300 or whatever it is called now will give you standard factory velocities with standard 45gr bullets. I tried 50gr Seirra Blitz bullets with our equivalent powder (AR2205/H4227) and got pretty good results. It worked on goats! And don't forget cast bullets. 55gr RCBS cast bullets shoot great and at lower pressure (read; with more powder) than jacketed bullets. The 1 in 16 rifling twist is ideal for cast.

Oh ... Seirra semi-points seem to work pretty well too. I have used the 55gr semi-point.

P.S. Gerry, I enjoyed your post.

Duck soup, nuthin to it!!!
I read Ross Seyfried's two part article on the Hornet years ago and my experiences with pistol primers and Lil'Gun mirror his..No joy. However it's as we all know already, they like what they like and some guys seem to have good luck with that combo. Another example of that is that after initial firing all I do is neck size. As to pistol primerss I have used other powders that responded well to pistol primers but not Lil'Gun in my case, go figure.
My best luck in two Anschutz Hornets (one's a handgun) and 2 CZ's has always been with the following: WW cases-WSR primers- Lil'Gun and 40 grain V-Max's or BlitzKings seated out to far to fit the magazines. Seriously accurate!



That picture is a fairly typical 5 shot 100 yard group with a 10 inch barreled Anschutz Exemplar Hornet (the 3X12 Burris helps). It mic'd a titch under a half inch and chrono'd approx 2,650 fps at 10 feet. Same load clocks right at 3,000ish fps out of both rifles with regular length barrels (surprised me cause I expected more velocity loss than that). I agree with the statement above that in all likelihood you'll probably have good luck with a number of powders but I too bet you'll end up with Lil'Gun.
Love those Hornets!!!

What twist do you guys like in the Hornet?

I have two 22 Hornets, one a Ruger 77 and the other is a Browning Huntsman. Each has its preference as far as the load it likes.
The Ruger shoots 10.2 grains of H-110 with 45 grain Hornet bullets best. My best grouping shot with this combo was at a 50 yard target with 4 shots going into a 1/4" group. The Ruger didn't shoot Lil Gun well at all.
The Huntsman, on the other hand, won't shoot the H-110 loads at all, but shoots Lil Gun and 45 grain Starke bullets extremely well.
With Hornet loads, I use small pistol primers, and crimp bullets after seating to get that little rascal to shoot, in both guns.
Since the barrels were not lapped by the barrel maker for these rifles, I polished the bores good with JB Bore paste, free floated each barrel, and did trigger jobs on each.
The Huntsman is a better made rifle than the Ruger, but, the Ruger does work very well, and I like its magazine. Also, the Huntsman's recoil lug is glass bedded at the factory, which I haven't seen on other factory rifles.

Don

Hey Guys,

I'm having fun with this thread......



Doug:

Sorry, I for one have never bothered with measuring the twist of my Anschutz 1432est (Heavy Barrel, Three Position Stock w/Set Trigger) - just sorta take 'em the way they make 'em.

700varmint

Yup, we've a coupla guys that really like the Remington 45 gr. HP's, too.


303Guy

The overwhelming majority of these Hornets are of the same ilk, either Anschutz, Feinwerkbau or Keppeler heavy target barrels with X-Course Stocks on them for our Standing, Prone, Offhand & Running Boar shooting including the odd CZ's & Charles Daily (Zastava) hunting models, too. We use the .22 Hornet, .222 Remington & one lost soul who has found his niché with a .223 Remington (we'll bring him around to the error of his way's though).



Because we all have other rifles in .222 Remington, .223 Remington, .22-250's and the odd 22PPC or Norma BR there is no shortage of bullets that get tried in our Hornets. There was probably 5 Guys crowded around the spotting scope when those Varmint Grenades went downrage outa the Hornet and howls of Gloom when the group began appearing more like a Shotgun Pattern than a precsion rifle target. We've just never managed to have any luck with 50 gr & heavier bullets. My take away is that the Tuetons are pretty conservative in their rifle barrel manufacturing, expereince tends to depict we are all shooting 1:14" if not 1:16" twists.

Mountdoug

I consumed Ross Seyfried's article too - interesting read.


The wheels are turning.....

I for one, am going to order a Lyman Neck Sizer Die and a Lee Collet Die for the .22 Hornet and start experimenting with those two.

Like DMB above some of us are using the Lee Factory Crimp Die with our Hornets; they claim they work best primarily due to the compressed loads in the (less volume) RWS cases so they don't have bullets "growing" outa the cases.

I've had good success with Alliant Unique (5 grs.) and 40-45 gr. bullets. Am also gonna order some H&N Copper Plated High Speed Round Nose lead bullets and give them a try with Unique. Do I need one of the "M" Die thingies, or a neck expander to load lead bullets in the Hornet case?

Easy to load for. Just pay attention to the small details. Increase powder charges by 0.2grs at a time, keep the trim length the same, etc.

quote:

Anschutz 1432est

Gerry, my hornet is a 1431/32. I have not been able to find any data on that actual model but pictures of 1400's and 1500's show mine is a hornet on a shortened 222 action. It has a roll-over comb, two-stage trigger (not set like the ??32 shows), wundhammer grip, schnabel fore-end, flip up rear sight, three point stock mount. A real nice action - smooth as, and a great trigger. Would you know more about that particular model?

quote:

... Do I need one of the "M" Die thingies, or a neck expander to load lead bullets in the Hornet case?

Well now, you might try my technique here. I have made myself a set of tools which I use for seating in my unconventional way (for jacketed) that would be ideal for lead. What I do is seat two strips of paper hand-towel (two-ply) into the case mouth to form a 'cup', to the correct depth then press the bullet in by finger followed by a final seat in the press to get the correct seating depth. THEN I dip the inverted cartridge up to the neck in molten waxy-lube for a few seconds to soak into the paper seat. This seals the case and holds the bullet firm. It also lubes the bore. (Some have cautioned against bore obstructions but no, not possible).

In my case, because I am using full power loads with Lil'Gun, I have a punch thingy in my press which I seat the powder down with to seating depth and this prevents the bullets being pushed out (in an un-sized neck). That is the great thing about the hornet case - it's shape is perfect for compressed loads. In fact, with Lil'Gun and compressed loads, it outperforms the k-hornet!

I am really puzzled that I seem to be the only one having success with heavier bullets in a 1 in 16 twist barrel! My hornets barrel isn't even in good condition. I cannot load to reach the lands because the throat is so deep and I load to fit the magazine. If I load 60gr hornady SP's real hot (I accidently used the 55gr powder charge) they shoot real good. Hits on hares were indistinguishable from a 223. I wasn't too sure about pressure - primer flattening was noticable but no pressure signs on the case itself but I dismantled the remainder of that batch anyway. No need to overstress my gun - even though it can take the 222.

Love that hornet!

I find my K-Hornet Martini dead easy to load for.

Take fire-formed W-W brass, FL re-size.

Put in W-W SR primers.

Pour in a full case of AA-1680 (15.0 grains).

Seat the cheapest 40 gr. Sierra FB bullets (Yes, it's a compressed load of ball powder, but easy to compress and does not push bullet back out ANY).

Shoot.

Get 3200+ velocity and 1/2 MOA 5-shot groups at 100 yards.

What could be easier, (other than buying expensive, inaccurate factory ammo which doesn't take of advantage of the K-Hornet chamber anyway)?

Keep repeating above. Keep having fun.

Somebody say Hornet? Enjoyed reading this thread as I’ve got a couple hours behind the press trying to figure this one out myself.

The story Gerry mentions on the Hornet taking out that Wild Boar sounds vaguely familiar

I won’t say it’s difficult to load for, and like Gerry said, when you’re shooting sub-moa with RWS factory, well, that kinda tells you that you better pay attention if you want to reload and match that.

My load for years was the Win 46 gr HP pushed by 10.5 gr IMR 4198. Not a tack driver, but served the purpose, most groups right around MOA @ 100 meters. Running low on that powder and availability not so easy, tried Lil Gun w/35 gr Hornady V-Max & had my eyes open when the Chrono registered just shy of 3000 fps. This after those 46 grainers were running in the 2300 fps area. And the group was great. So much for that, time to change loads, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

Rifle:
Anschutz 1432

303Guy, there are actually three different trigger groups for the 14 series Anschutz. If you check out the link below, you should find yours. Steve has many many manuals posted on his site: http://stevespages.com/pdf/anschutz_1430-1434-1530-1534.pdf

Thanks for that Dom.
My particular model does not show up anywhere! But I do know is it is great rifle!

Yupper, Dom's spot-on about the the trigger groups for the Anschutz'.

Mine, a Double-Set, Dom's a Forward-Set and then there's the Two-Stage Target Trigger. All three manufactured by Anschutz; I've the Two-Stage Trigger on my Keppeler .222 Remington. All of them teach really good trigger habits because when adjusted to about 1/16" of take-up and 100 gramms let-off you learn not to insert your finger into the Trigger Guard unless you're serious about making it go Bang!

303Guy

Concerning your description of your Anschutz Hornet - it sounds like the "Deluxe" Model. Does it have an inlay in the pistol grip? At one time there were quitte some variations of the Anschutz's but they all used the same action. It was also chambered in .222 Remington.


Sadly, the DJV (Three-Postion Heavy Barrel Models) have gone the way of the Dodo Bird; they are no longer being manufactured.

I had a Ruger M77 that was a K-Hornet. It was ok, nice to shoot even my 5 year old could shoot it.

I have been looking for a used Anschutz or Krico for a while. Prices are steep!

Not really sure what is is for but I like it.

Would be fun on corvids! Then again my Anschutz 17 HMR is deadly on them.

I've reloaded for many Hornet rifles of various makes & Models. For light loads (under 1,500 FPS) use 7.0 grs/SR-4759/45 or 50 grainers. I like H-110 powder for regular Hornet loads and also WW-680 was a great powder for the Hornet.

Gerry
No it doesn’t. It does have a very fancy trigger guard. Way too fancy for a budget model. (Not shown on the link). It also has a third mounting point in a dovetail under the folding rear sight barrel swell - like 308Sako's rifle. The foresight is mounted in a undercut on the barrel. (Well, it was until I took it off in favour of a suppressor - it's an over-barrel type which extents the length by 50mm and actually improves the balance of the rifle). Gerry, could I e-mail you some pictures of it? I'll PM you my e-mail address.

One day, I am going to build a miniature Lee Enfield actioned hornet - just for fun!

I reload the Hornet for my Anschutz 1730. I use Lil Gun, 40gr Blitzkings, and Win small pistol primers. Acc 1680 works good, also. The rifle and loads normally groups 3/8 in. at 100 yards. Loaded with regular Hornet bullets, the group runs 3/4 to an inch.

I used a Lee collet die to size with. I also deburr the inside of the primer pockets.

With the Sierra Blitzkings, there's no alibis.

Joe A.

quote:

Loaded with regular Hornet bullets, the group runs 3/4 to an inch.

My Anschutz has a .223 barrel. Yours may be the same. But then again, Blitzkings might just be a better bullet.

Don't know happened on previuos post, I do have a crazy mouse.

My 1730 slugs 223 also. I have experienced no problems using 224 bullets in my rifle.

Joe A.

That's why I went for an optical mouse - far less jumping around of the pointer! And no pad required. (My keyboard is still a little 'intoxicated' from the beer spill - no R/H CAPS "A").

Mmmm.... I wonder whether the tighter bore is actually benificial?

I plan to do some loads with the bullet seated right out, loaded singly, to see what happens.

I have a Sako M78 Hornet (if ever a gun needed brought back into production!) and a Ruger 77 reworked with a custom K-Hornet barrel and replacement trigger. Both are a pleasure to shoot, although the Ruger can swing from gilt-edged accuracy to very tempremental with a change of loads.

The little Hornady 35 gr V-Max is a devastating load in either. I've even loaded it with a reduced load of Blue Dot at 2500 fps and it still evaporates prairie dogs while producing MOA accuracy. For full-power loads I like AA 1680. I've found Lil Gun to exhibit wide swings in velocity, so I gave up on it. Besides, the Hornet isn't designed for hotrodding. Keep the loads mild and pleasant and your brass will last longer. If you want more velocity, step up to a .223.

quote:

If you want more velocity, step up to a .223.

That is of course, logical. But, we're not logical!
It's far more fun trying to make that little hornet into something it isn't!
The case does have some features which I like for my purposes. That being the long neck. My next rifle, which I shall be building, will have a long neck. It will be a 22 CF using a .223 barrel and will have either a necked down 303 case or a necked down 30-30 case. I may or may not 'improve' the case, depending on what pressure is needed to achieve the velocity I want.

To be 'logical', it seems the 221 fireball fits the bill in so far as it produces hornet plus velocities at 'normal' pressure with 'normal' powder charges. No 'weird' effects from Lil'Gun. And it will fit a standard hornet action (that is, if your hornet is a short action one like mine). I would re-chamber mine if it did not require modifying the bolt face. But anyway, I enjoy my hornet as it is.

Thanx, all for all the amazing info and great thread !

Just got back from a 2 week hunt with clients now to get some time to get all the gear in order and start reloading. The rifle is in for repairs as well as tuning and getting a silencer. So in the meantime we will go and get dies and the rest of the stuff we need.

Thanx again

I reload for two Hornets, one a CZ527, the other a Ruger #1. Like others have said it is small, and the brass thin and fragile so be careful and you will get the hang of it.

quote:

.... as well as tuning and getting a silencer ...

A friend has just had a silencer fitted to is 223. It's a reflex type, quite large but only extends the barrel a short length. It sounds like 22lr high velocity!