Gawd, I hate stirring the stuff like this... naw, really I do

Anywho, for those of us who rarely shoot factory ammo... what are some real world velocities to be reasonably attained from factory rifles such as a Rem 700VS or Savage 12BVSS in .204 Ruger, shooting say, a 32-40gr pill. Not looking for loads that are backing the primer out, but warmish varmint-field loads. How's the S.D./E.S. numbers from the .204 look on average?

I'm a long-time fan of the .223 Rem for general purpose 0-350yd varminting; hows the .204 for high-volume work like gopher fields and prairie dog towns? I don't doubt it getting the job done... hows the cost of components, etc. stack up? For high volume varmint splatting I've been a big fan of a 50gr TNT ahead of 25.5gr H335 in LC brass w/ Rem 7-1/2 primers as a cheap all-purpose bulk varminting round. Anybody here loading a .204 thru a Dillon RL550B yet?

Thanks,

Monte

milanuk, Factory 32 grain HORNADY yielded an average velocity of 4149fps from a Savage VLP over nearly 100 rounds(chronograph didn't register a few(less than 15!!!) so I guess it was pretty accurrate!! The usual powders tried, Re7, VARGET(hard to find a varmint chambering that doesn't like VARGET!!!), BL-C2, H4895, all fell a bit short of advertised velocities for the .204 until I tried the ACCURRATE 2230!!! You want speed? You want pretty decent accurracy? You want both? The ACCURRATE 2520 fills the bill for the 26" SAVAGE VLP!! They both give the speed in the little stubby Model 7 but H4895 gets the nod in that little gun!!
When I tested the ACCURRATE powders, there was no data available!!! After testing, I called the company and they requested my data!!! Still waiting for them to come out with data!!! I've run 32 grainers to 4565 fps with the .204!!! NO NEED FOR THAT!!! 4100-4200 will suffice quite well probably leave a bit more life in your barrel!! I damn sure know it leaves more life in the brass!! H4895 seems to be a powder that the various .204's can deal with!! I like the ACCURRATE powders for their ease of use!! But the Model 7 will probably be stoked with H4895!!
I can live with .440" @ 500 yards!!!! That's what the SAVAGE has done with the 2520 powder and the Sierra 32 grainers!!! Albeit the horshoe was about elbow depth up my butt to do that!!! Now to repeat it!!! GHD PS: Cost of loading using your and my data would not be enough to quibble over!! I think the story will be told out a bit further than 300-350 yards!! We'll wait and see I reckon!!!

Whoa there, jethrow. Calm yourself. Step away from the exclamation point key. BREATHE...



So If I'm translating the above you are getting the 32gr pills to meet or exceed the velocities of the factory loads, with good accuracy, without ruining the cases. Just figured I'd clarify because last time I'd asked around, people were a little frustrated because they couldn't seem to get w/i a few hundred fps of the factory stuff. Good to hear that the loading issue has been sorted out.

Any idea on speeds from the 39/40gr pills?

Biggest concern about the bulk loading was the availability of large quantities of brass at reasonable cost. Pretty hard to compete w/ once-fired 100% processed LC or even Winchester .223 brass in that department, but it is a pretty small figure in the overall loading cost equation. As long as the .204 stuff is roughly equivalent in cost to say, Winchester .223 Rem brass, I'd be more than happy. Speaking of which, hows the brass life w/ that little tiny neck? I was kind of thinking of a gopher rifle where sheer tonnage of energy isn't necessarily needed but it'd be nice to be able to load 'em warm and still get say, 10 loadings out of the cases.


Thanks,

Monte

milanuk, I'll put a freeze on the exclamations for this post. Now for the data: The SAVAGE VLP just turned in on 6/7/05 velocities averaging 3791fps using the 39 grain SIERRA and 27.5 grains of ACCURATE 2520(26" barrel). The Model 7 (20" barrel) same box of projectiles, same cannister of powder, same loading session, and testing session turned in an average of 3519fps. Using 27.5 grains of H4895, Federal Match primer, the Model 7 averaged 3500fps with an edge in accurracy or group size. In the short rifle, I think I'll give up 19 fps for the accurracy advantage. In the VLP, the 2520 will get the nod and using the 32 grain SIerras, the 2520 will see duty in the killing fields this year. GHD PS: I forgot to address case life. The Savage has only experienced one split case neck in over 800 rounds and that was a second time fired case. As for the Model 7, the test data tonite was from 4x fired neck sized cases. The only serious case concerns I've encountered were primer pockets loose enough to seat primers in by hand after generating 4565fps with the 32 grain Sierras. Powder charges listed here aren't that high. There's still a bit of room to strangle a few more feet per second out of the .204......but I beleive 4200fps will about do it. Made it thru that post with no exclamation points.

I've only had a .204 for a couple of weeks , but I can tell you I got 500 pieces of brass out of Midway for about 62 bucks.....about the same price as new WW .223 brass . However , I think they are sold out again......the brass pipelines are not full yet . Remington is also going to come out with bulk brass .

Only loaded 20 rounds so far , but it seemed to me like 3900+ with the 39gr Sierra would be very realistic. I tried RL15 and IMR 4320........next time I get a chance I'm going to chrono some loads with Ramshot TAC .

As to the cost of the bullets , I don't believe there is anything available to compete with the cheaper bulk .22 bullets yet . The V-max bullets are priced about the same as .22 caliber V-max . I'd like to see someone come out with a plain hollowpoint like the TNT about 30 gr in weight ; just for situations like hoards of gophers. I think there will be more of a bullets selection once the manufacturers see how well this cartridge is going to sell....

quote:

Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
I can live with .440" @ 500 yards!!!! That's what the SAVAGE has done with the 2520 powder and the Sierra 32 grainers!!!

Note to self: Do not piss this man off, even at a far distance!

Under ½" at 500 yds is that a world record?

we were shooting PD's wiht a 223 side byside with a 204. At about 400 the 204 just seemed to get there in about 1/2 the time with lots less drop. This is just a casual observation, but it is pretty much what 3 of us noticed. I've just 32 grainers in 204 so far, but am loading up some 39 gr sierras this weekend. It's definately more money to load than a 223 just because of the brass. bullets are a bit more and you're buring up more powder. In any case I really like the 204. it seems like one of my swifts without the noise or recoil. You can see your hits through the scope

yeah, I went cruisin' Midway's site for brass... generally speaking I stay away from Hornady and Remington brass... Winchester or Lapua for me if I can get it, personal preference thing. The prices for Winchester brass ain't bad at all, on a par w/ the Winnie .223 stuff... just not in stock. Might be worth putting on a email reminder and snagging some while it comes back in. At worst I could turn around and sell it for a profit when it runs out again

I've been sitting here playing w/ some various speeds and whatnot in a couple ballistics programs... while I don't know if it's the best thing since sliced cheese, it does look pretty fair out to 400yds or so. Recoil slightly lower than a .223, energy either a little above or a little below the .223 depending on load, shoots a hair flatter than a .22-250... I know there was some argument earlier about the .204 39/40gr vs. heavy .223's out to 600 or so... doesn't look like the .204 would be be giving up much @600 in the wind to me... then again, for Service Rifle it's a non-issue... unless the military starts fielding M16's in .204 Ruger For AR Match Rifle's though... might be an interesting solution to the perennial problem of milking more performance from an AR-15 platform, especially once Sierra or someone starts making match bullets for it... Once you leave the AR platform, though, it gets left behind pretty quickly @ 600. Not really fair, as that's not what the cartridge was intended or designed for. Then again, I doubt anyone involved in the design of the .223 Rem ever imagined 1-6.5" twist barrels pushing 90gr VLD's to 1000yds from that little punk of a round

Anybody managed to burn a barrel out on one of these yet?

I'm really starting to itch for one for some gopher work next spring (kind of missed out on the rush this year, and it's been way too damn long since I've seriously pursued any kind of critter...)... the local gun shop has a 12VLP that's looking better and better, but an AR upper w/ a good muzzle brake from White Oak Armmament in .204 ruger could be more fun than I could handle

Dane, if you read ghd's post closely... he pretty much admitted that there was a fair amount of luck involved (at least thats what I took the horseshoe comment to imply) and that it was a one time deal so far. Still impressive in its own right, and the kind of group one wishes they could pull off in a registered 600yd BR match w/ lots of witnessses. Since I've started dabbling in competitive shooting, long-term aggregate group size measns more to me personally, as it implies what I can expect worst-case scenario, no matter what, the gun to shoot into, not what might or might not occur any given day (individual small groups). As I said, it still takes some skills to get a group that small, hope ya keep working on it.

Monte

Monte,
Have a look at this site: http://www.204ruger.com
It has all the info you need to help your mind get one .
Enjoy.

quote:
Originally posted by groundhog devastation:
I can live with .440" @ 500 yards!!!! That's what the SAVAGE has done with the 2520 powder and the Sierra 32 grainers!!!

Posted by The Dane;
Note to self: Do not piss this man off, even at a far distance!

Under ½" at 500 yds is that a world record?


I don't really look to piss anyone off either, BUT I'd have to see that group first hand! Personally, I'd find it hard to beleive a group under 3 inches at 500 yards, with any gun!

I shoot .330 at 100 yards with my Encore .204!

mik do you get the guns & ammo magazine ?
ive just got my june issue, now theres some thing that might interest you
id love a 204 ruger BUT! we cant legaly shoot roe deer with a 204 ruger,
if that law changed then id look at getting myself one

Chuck, If you'd been here you could have seen it! "marmonthunter" from this sight was there and pulled the target. Again I say that the group was a result of the "horseshoe" up the butt syndrome! Now I'm going to be out there trying to duplicate it at 500 with that rifle. As far as 3" at 500 yards......there's a lot of rifles that will do that consistently! I will attempt to duplicate the results at first chance. GHD

GHD,
Surely you can post a picture of this group. What accuracy measures have you taken to achieve this miraculous feat? You're not going to try and tell the members of this board it was a bone stock Savage out of the box are you? I run a rifle range and I can vouch for Savage's out of the box accuracy which anymore is second to none, but .440 at 500 yards?
PUHLEEZE

Jim and others...

I think he made it pretty clear it was a one-off group... and that he was going to try to duplicate it. Personally I'm a lot more interested in what a person can agg w/ a given gun than individual groups... more indicative of overall performance rather than momentary aligning of planets... and while you can flinch shots *into* a group just as easy as you can flinch them out, no one likes to admit it

Just accept it for what it is, a one-time deal. If he can do it again... thats good. What'd be better is to see all the targets w/ groups that *weren't* that small and figure the agg. In the mean time, no need to get all wrapped around the axle trying to call B.S. on it... it is within the realm of possible... probable is another thing entirely.

I'm eyeballing a couple .204's in the local gun shop... either a 700LVSF as a calling rifle, or a 12VLP that I'm envisioning w/ a SSS SVT bolt handle, comp recoil lug, comp trigger... and a Vais brake should equal about zero muzzle flip and front row seats to the show on gophers and such...

Sadly, it's kind of bad timing... I just embarked on a 6mm BR adventure, working over my 10FP-LE2 for that caliber, hoping to put it to use in F-class matches and whatnot. Certain amount of start up $$$ involved in a new caliber... brass, bullets, dies, etc. etc. Might be a little while til I get around to putting down the $$$ for a .204...

Monte

Here's a test done by starting with a .204 with a 24 inch barrel and chopping it down an inch at a time . Looks like the cartridg will hang in there pretty well right down to 20 inches or so of tube . He doesn't list the test load , so I would assume it's 32 gr factory loads . Also FWIW , the factory loads I got ahold of (Hornaday 32 gr) clock 4209 fps out of my 26 inch Ruger V/T . Bolt lift is a little stiff to go along with the high speed.








Bullberry Barrel Works
2430 W. Bullberry Lane
Hurricane, Utah 84737
(435) 635-9866
8am - 12pm
1pm - 5pm Mtn. time
fax: (435) 635-0348

204 Ruger Velocity Tests

Thanks for your patience waiting on the results of this test. We have been promising to get this job done for several months and finally have the time to post the results.

I chose a T/C Contender in 24" length as a starting point. Like our previous data on the 17 HMR, I shot 5 rounds thru our Oehler Skyscreen II Chronograph, recorded the results, then cut 1 inch from the barrel and recrowned to repeat the velocity test.

It was my intention to go all the way to a 10" barrel. But . . . at about 18" length I started getting frequent "error" readings – from muzzle blast. I firmed up my Sky Screens to prevent movement and got good results until about 16" length. At this point I had to move back about 20 feet from my screens and tie down everything in the immediate area of my shop. I was pulling objects off shelves 30 feet away. At 14" it was impossible to get five dependable readings – because of this extreme blast – so my test was terminated at this length.

For my test I'd be forced to say that 23" is the optimum length. Those of you who know me, realize that I was hoping to find highest velocity at 20". But my chronograph won't lie just because I'm a fan of shorter barrels.

I have no answer for the fact that my test showed a high velocity of 200 fps slower than advertised – probably just a difference in testing procedure. Here's hoping this data is of interest and may help our shooters in making ideal decisions in length for their needs.

Good shooting!

-Fred Smith
Bullberry/Woodsmith


So on to the test velocities:

24 inch barrel
Shot 1 4042 fps
Shot 2 4078 fps
Shot 3 4058 fps
Shot 4 4037 fps
Shot 5 4032 fps
Average 4049 fps
Spread 46 fps

23 inch barrel
Shot 1 4034 fps
Shot 2 4049 fps
Shot 3 4063 fps
Shot 4 4056 fps
Shot 5 4071 fps
Average 4055 fps
Spread 37 fps


22 inch barrel
Shot 1 4029 fps
Shot 2 4016 fps
Shot 3 4043 fps
Shot 4 4029 fps
Shot 5 4051 fps
Average 4034 fps
Spread 35 fps

21 inch barrel
Shot 1 3995 fps
Shot 2 3977 fps
Shot 3 3999 fps
Shot 4 3985 fps
Shot 5 4001 fps
Average 3991 fps
Spread 24 fps


20 inch barrel
Shot 1 3966 fps
Shot 2 3994 fps
Shot 3 3976 fps
Shot 4 3971 fps
Shot 5 3962 fps
Average 3974 fps
Spread 32 fps

19 inch barrel
Shot 1 3837 fps
Shot 2 3863 fps
Shot 3 3849 fps
Shot 4 3877 fps
Shot 5 3871 fps
Average 3859 fps
Spread 40 fps


18 inch barrel
Shot 1 3782 fps
Shot 2 3821 fps
Shot 3 3849 fps
Shot 4 3779 fps
Shot 5 3811 fps
Average 3808 fps
Spread 70 fps

17 inch barrel
Shot 1 3799 fps
Shot 2 3776 fps
Shot 3 3760 fps
Shot 4 3801 fps
Shot 5 3784 fps
Average 3784 fps
Spread 41 fps


16 inch barrel
Shot 1 3728 fps
Shot 2 3668 fps
Shot 3 3654 fps
Shot 4 3694 fps
Shot 5 3705 fps
Average 3690 fps
Spread 74 fps

Milanuk, I would like to see a picture of that group. Whether or not he can duplicate it, a .440 at 500 yards is nothing short of phenominal and is something to be framed and placed on the mantle. That's some kind of shooting even if it was luck and can't be done again.

Hi Chapster 1,
Their is not enough bullets at the moment for the .204 or factory ammo that would reliably expand on deer the size of roe.(in theory )
Even so the minimum caliber in Scotland as you may know is .222, using a 55 grain soft point bullet.
So the .204 is out for that unfortunately
I have not seen the article in Guns and ammo, is their anyway you could get that article about the .204 up on screen, Id love to see it. I leagly use the .204 on foxes, feral goats, and the odd wild feral dog thats killing sheep.
If it can do a clean job on a goat, which it does, Im sure it can do a clean job on a roe deer.
But the law dictates in scotland, .222 minimum.
Thanks.

mik sorry cant find the excact artical but if you look here http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ see what you can find, it was in june2005.

Jim White-- I actually copied that 500 yard target when it was posted and have it stored at PhotoBucket. So, here is the photo of the group.



I have been doing lots of testing using the 39 gr. Sierra bullets in my Savage 12VLP. This rifle is the way it came out of the box, except I lightened up the trigger pull to about 2 1/2 pounds. I have a Leupold VX-III 6.5-20x40mm long range scope on the rifle. Here is a target shot from a bench at a distance of 100 yards. I use a mechanical front rest, and a rabbit-ear rear bag. My brass was brand new (never fired before) prepped brass. Primers are Remington 7 1/2. This group is the absolute best I have shot with the .204 Ruger, although I have shot quite a number of 3-shot groups in the .2s with my rifle. Before you ask, NO, I do not have anyone who witnessed my target--only a bunch of mosquitoes