Jordan:

I have a 6.2 lb. 22" bbl. 25-06 (yeah I know, but bear with me) It delivers about 3250 w/100's. I shortened it from 24" and lost 75 fps. So you can do the math on that one (maybe 3175 in a 20"). Most data that I can find on the 257 AI puts it about 100-125 fps behind the 25-06 in equal bbl. lengths. Nosler #5 quotes a maximum of 3222 in a 24" (again you can do the math 35 fps/inch) My best guess is that you'd really be doing well to get 3050-3100 out of a Roberts AI in a 20" (you'd be burning a bunch of powder in the sky as well)

Someone may chime in with what "theirs" does in a short bbl. but if that number is anywhere close to 3200, I'd be suspicious of some hotrodded pressures or some keyboard chronographing.

There is a gentleman named Mark who posts here frome time to time who has built several 250 Savage AI's he says he gets around 3100 out of (I think) a 22". He is a rifle builder and (I'll butcher the name) but I think it's something like Kailuai Customs. (Sounds like Hawaii but he's really in Oregon someplace)

I think you can trust a rifle builder like him to not exaggerate velocities or hotrod pressures too much.

FWIW...Lower your expectations about 100-125fps and have fun.

JimF

Thank you Jim. Your information and experience are appreciated.

Jordan

Jordan,
Check with Sisk Rifle, Inc. He just built himself a 257 Roberts with a 20" tube. He could probably give you some good information on that.

The other gunsmith you were referring to was Mark of Kailua Customs. he is also very knowledgeable on these rifles.

Mark Pinkston (sp?) is his name. He rebarreled a Ruger 77 Ultralight of mine with a used 20.5" barrel in 250 AI that he had listed on his web page. Three weeks and $180 later the rifle arrived. I worked up a load using IMR-4350 and the 100 gr Hornady that very safely goes 3000 fps. It also consistently groups 5 shots inside 1" at 200 yards. Next to my Pac-Nor rebarreled 223 AI, it is the most accurate rifle I own. My 10 year old boy took his first whitetail buck and feral hog with it. Great little round to shoot and Mark did a fine job.

If a wildcat is acceptable you really need to look at the 257DGR. It was designed around a Rem Short Action and a 243Win or 260Rem case.

There is a link to the 257DGR data I have on my 243AI page link below.

http://www.angelfire.com/nd/243ackleyimproved

Mine has a 24" barrel and I get 3200+fps with 100gr and 3700+fps with 70gr bullets.

Good Hunting
Jeff in ND

[ 09-14-2002, 07:34: Message edited by: Jeff in ND ]

Jeff:

Thanks for the link. I keep coming back to the .257 DGR and have not ruled it out by any means. I notice that with a 115 grain Nosler CT bullet and 4064 powder [if I recall correctly] you are right on the door step of 3000 fps. You indicate that the load which achieves this velocity is mild. Could you hazard an extrapolation as to how fast you might boost the 115 grain bullet with a warm load?? I fantasize about a 115 grainer doing 3000 fps out of a 20" tube---which is probably wishful thinking, except that you are very close to that with a 24 inch tube. Assuming a velocity loss of 25 feet per inch, using the .257 DGR case, a guy might just move the 115 grainer at 3000 fps out of a 20 inch tube yet. What do you think? Also, do you happen to know the case capacity [grains of water] for a fireformed .257 DGR case?

Thanks,

Jordan

I have not shot anything over 100gr bullets. The Data on the 115's is from Duane (The designer of the 257DGR). You should give him a call and discuss it. (701-327-3185 Duanes Gun Repair) or e-mail him. I know he have built 8 or 10 of the 257DGR, maybe one had a shorter barrel.
Here is his web sight.

http://www.duanesguns.com/dgr.htm

BTW the deluxe rifle shown on Duane's page is my 257DGR.

Duane is showing a few loads with the 115 and 117 gr bullets over 3000fps. He doesn't say barrel length that the data was developed with but I am sure it was a 24" barrel as that is what his rifle has on it.

I have pushed Nosler 100gr BT's to a tad over 3300fps with my rifle. Unfortunitally that load was not very accuate (and was HOT), I have settled on a Sierra 100gr Gameking at a tad over 3200 for my deer load. It worked great on 3 deer and a coyote last deer season.
I am working with the BT's again but with Ram Shot Big Game powder. So far the accuracy is great but I am only up to about 3075fps. I am going to add some more powder and see what happens.

The case capacity full to the top of the neck using 260Rem case is 54.7gr of water. It will very a bit with parent case.

Here is the rest of the 25 cal case I checked for capacity before going with the 257DGR (all full to the top of the neck).
250Savage - 48.0
257DGR - 54.7
25 Souper - 55.3
257 Roberts - 57.9
257 Roberts AI - 62.1
25-284 - 66.2
25-06 - 69.0

Hope this helps.
Good Hunting
Jeff in ND

Jeff:

When you weigh a case to determine grains of water capacity, what do you plug the primer hole with so the water will not leak out? Also, are you filling the case to the mouth with water? I note that on average your weights are 3-4 grains ahead of the weights listed for corresponding cases in the Barnes reloading manual. I have some .250-3000 Savage Improved fireformed brass coming. I think I will weigh it for water capacity [in grains] and then make my decision.

Thanks for all the info.

Jordan

Here is how I measured water capacity.
1. Weigh the fired case with the spent primer still in the case.
2. Fill the case level full of water, making sure to keep air bubbles out. weigh the case and water.
3. Subtract the dry weight (1) from the weight weight (2).

The 250AI cases should be really close to the 257DGR case. The 257DGR was designed to duplicate the 250AI without the hassel of fire forming. Also it feeds much better then the 250AI due to the 30degree shoudler and slight body tapper and you can easily use 243Win or 260Rem cases which are much easier to find the 250Sav cases.

BTW, if you know where to get some 250Sav cases let me know. I need 100 of them for a old Savage 99 I picked up that is chambered in 250-3000.

If you would like a 257DGR case drop me an e-mail with your shipping address and I will get one in the mail to you.
milender@ictc.com
Good Hunting
Jeff in ND

My .250 Savage has a 16 1/4" barrel. I have not clocked my 100 grain Ballistic Tip load yet but it centers around a case full of H-380. As soon as I can get to the range again I will post the velocity.

Jeff, Winchester and Remington still load the .250. Graffs usually has Winchester brass in stock. They list it right now for 17.99/50 Stock # is *WSC250SU* . Sean