In a recent article by Seyfried he says, �The not-new world of fast twist and big cases combined with the .22 bore, continues to impress me more than almost any �modern� ballistic concept. I begin to wonder what if: What if we have a barrel made for 100-grain, .224-inch bullets? What if we have an 80-grain Partition bullet? What if we neck the .300 WSM to .22? Okay, maybe it should be shortened a little.�

Has anybody traveled down these paths yet? Sounds interesting to say the least.

You could get a 224clark. It is a necked down 257bob so it will have plenty of go to get those heavy weights moving. I know there are 80g bullets out there but you start having to run a really tight twist. To stabilze an 80 it takes a 1-7 so lord only knows what a 100g would use?

Seyfried's 22-284 used a 1 in 7 twist with 78 gr. bullets to 3700 fps. He also says that over stabilization is mostly a myth.

There are probably some barrel makers that will do the necessary work if we can find bullets heavy enough.

I agree 100% with the over-stabilization comment. I shoot a 22-284 with a 30" 14"twist Barrel. I have experimented with 35gr Bergers at 5100 fps. They shoot in the mid .3's. The 65gr Bergers i normally shoot will agg in the mid to high 2's at 4170 fps. I would love to try out a 100gr .224 dia projectile say in a 5 or 6 twist. I bet Jeff Lawrence at LRB in Montana would make the barrel.

Boy what would the BC be on a 100?

Don't know if anybody remembers Wally Siebert from the old benchrest scene (he used to do power boosting to the older Leupolds/Lymans for the benchrest guys). I'm pretty sure he was working with a .22-284 with custom 90 gr. bullets at long-range a # years ago. The guys still around too, and still customizing scopes. I think he's still in Issaquah, WA, as well. Might be a good resource for info. on just this subject.

You guys missed out last year: Midsouth was selling 100-gr .224 Hornady bullets as part of their 'blemished bullets' run. The story was that there was a mistake at the factory, and instead of making a standard 55-gr SP, the dies were somehow spitting out bullets of 100 gr! The pictures that they had on their website for this bullet showed what looked just like a normal Hornady 55-gr SP flatbase bullet, just VERY long. Unfortunately, it wasn't a VLD or even HPBT design, so I think the BC would still be lower than a 75-80 gr VLD, and thus of no real benefit for long-range shooting. I was tempted to buy a box just as a collector's item, but passed.

Anybody do the math on 22 sectional densities...specifically the ultra heavies?

Another great large capacity .22 wildcat is the .22 Vais---from 6.5 x 55 Lapua brass. Used to have one. Never should have let it go.

Jordan

Except as a stunt I see no sense to this. When I say something like that's it's because I have been there and done it.

I made up a .224" with a 26" barrel and some guy in Utah made up 88 gr partition bullets for me. It shot fine. Those 88's grouped around 1.5" at 200 yards.

Know what? When that bullet hit some test media it made about 1/2 the hole cavity that a .270 would.

Thus it makes no sense at all to have one. What would the advantage be? I could never take mine game hunting after I saw what little damage it does compared to a real game load.

I ended up wearing the barrel out at the range and shooting woodchucks with it. It was good for that. The case is a 7mm Rem Mag shortened to 2" with a .300" neck. It holds about 52 grains of powder. I do admit that it kept me busy.

If you can build a 22 that will perform in a similar fashion to a 1000 yd big bore then you have accomplished something worthwhile in my book. That's not a stunt. You don't have to hunt with it to make it interesting. Having said that, if such a rifle is highly accurate with good bullets (heavy for caliber) then you will be able to place your shots more consistently than if you're using a bigger rifle that bucks and snorts more than the small bore. That's why Seyfried said he would even think about using one of these rifles with a proper bullet on deer...maybe even elk. For him to say that about elk (which he loves) is really saying something to think about. There's more to lethality than the amount of tissue a given bullet will displace.

The effects of ultra high velocity cartridges are in terms of Hydrostatic Shock. P.O. Ackley and Roy Weatherby figured this out a long time ago. When Ultra High Speed and bullet placement are combined along with proper bullet construction even somewhat small dia .14 - .224 dia projectiles are Extremely Deadly. Bullets rarely exit so there is no wasted energy.

Yukon,

I plan on having a 224 clark someday. Heard about it from my gunsmiths, the guy that developed it lived in Madera (about 30min from Fresno). when he died they bought his reamers, remainder of his handmade bullets etc. You could call them if you want to find out more information about it. Gilman-Mayfield, Fresno, 559-221-9415. Talk to Bob.

There is also info. on it around the web if you do a search.

Red

I'm not a believer that a bullet can RELIABLY & REPEATEDLY kill by shock unless you're talking about small game and varmints.

A lot of the greats (Ackley, Weatherby, Keith, etc) had some great ideas that have since been disproven. For example, Keith thought that the shoulder of the meplat was what did the damage on game. He also felt that heavier "old tech" bullets were superior to smaller premium bullets at high velocity. These men did some incredible things that still amaze today but none of them were always right. Just something to think about.

Yukon Delta
During many years working as a big game guide,( Elk, Mule deer) Cartridges clients used varied quite a bit, On Elk the most deadly cartridge i witnessed was the 270 Weatherby Mag with 130-140gr projectiles. I also witnessed 2 Bull Elk put down with 1 shot ea from a 22-284 with 80gr Sierras. No i do not recommend using 224's on big game, But i have seen first hand the effects of super high velocity, properly constructed bullets when shots are placed well. Projectile RPM on impact also plays a role. Without question i believe in Shock as consistant and reliable.

I have no problem with what you have witnessed Blaine but that doesn't support shock lethality. I don't doubt good bullets from the 22's will kill elk. Seyfried talked about trying it himself. Having said that, I don't believe that the shock from the bullet (any bullet) killed the elk. Bullet placement and penetration killed that elk, deer, bear, etc. Shock can CONTRIBUTE to a kill but doesn't kill in itself. If that were so, you could shoot them anywhere in the body and we know that's not true. Everyone knows the old illustration of a 22-250 having more paper energy than a 45-70.

JLK make a 90 VLD in 224 cal

APEX barrel in AZ ( Flagstaff ) make cut rifling barrel for special use ( up to 30 mm canon ) and can make pitch from 1 in 6 and gain twist too .

over stabilisation is jus a bullet qualty problem , if you bullet is strong with no unbalance you can over stabilised , main problem is with thin jacket bullet you blast bullet when they are over sabilisited ( too much RPM )

224 Clark or 22/6 REM IMP seem the max capacity in water , that true overbore cartridge but velocity is impressive , over you get serious carbon fouling in the barrel .

Bill Shedanne have design a short 6/284 ( longer neck , this design in 224 can be a real challenger to the regular 22/284 with less powder , same velocity and better barrel life with a longer neck

good shooting

DAN TEC

Hey Blaine, how did you get the 35gr bullets to hold together? I used to have a .220swift that would push 45gr bullets out the door @ 4100fps. I could get to 4200fps, but several of the bullts came apart before they hit the target.

For the most part 45 gr bullets are for hornet class cartridges and have thin jackets. They will come undone at high velocities. Others do not.

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the .224 Barnes QT. I believe it was a variation on the Clark with a 125 gr. bullet. He loaded it to around 2700-2800 fps. As I recall it was 10 deer, 1 elk, one shot each with no recovered bullets, including the full length penetration on the elk. I figured the SD once but have forgotten the numbers. BC is proportional to SD for a given form and he wasn't shooting RN's, so it was probably pretty high. It was said that the long range performance was "interesting" in the article I read about it.

Fredj338
Howdy, I shot several groups with both the 35gr Berger and also the 36gr Starke's. 56 grains Varget for the Bergers and 55 grains Varget for the Starke's. I never lost a single bullet through the 30" 14" twist Hart LV barrel. I use Flitz and USP bore paste in my barrels, However i have experienced bullet blow-up with the 25gr Bergers in my .17's, especially after 17 to 20 rounds have been fired without cleaning. I tested 15gr .17 cal Bergers at near 5100 on coyotes quite a few years ago. Fun stuff man! - Blaine

dan tec
Have you ever worked with, or are you familiar with the 22 Vias? Like the short 22-284 you mentioned i bet the Vias would also be tough to beat for an all out Accurate Magnum .224.

Used to take kids antelope hunting on some big ranches to help teach them various hunting/ shooting skills, and hunter/ landowner relationships. You know what their favorite round was to shoot-- the .22-250AI with 60 gr. Partitions. Excellent performance even to 300 yds.

I remember reading about the .226 Barnes QT a few years back. Was it a true .226" barrel, or a .224" or even .228"? Also, didn't the barrel have something like a 1-4 twist? I remember reading about a famous ballistician who was funded by the British government to do work improving their rifle cartridges back in the late 1800's who experimented with twists all the way down to 1-1! Wow is all I can say to that.

BTW, anyone have any more info, links, history of the Barnes QT, or at least the bullet it fired? It really looks like an interesting round.

I've got an article coming my way about the Barnes QT. I'm in the middle of moving but I will post more when I get the article.

Whitworth was the English gentleman mentioned. He was an absolute genius and you should read about him when you get the chance. Ross Seyfried wrote an article about him recently in Rifle or Handloader.

BUT, there IS a limit to how fast a twist will even spin a bullet!! I don't know what the limit is, but I'll bet you cannot stabilize a 100-grain .224 bullet, because it will be blown through the bore without spinning at all in the twist that would be required!!