I went to the gunstore today trying to decide if I wanted to build a new rifle or just buy one off the shelf. I looked at a Kimber Montana in .260 Rem with a 1-9 twist at 5 pounds plus ounces, a Sako Finlight with a 1-8 twist at 6 pounds + ounces, and a Steyr Ultralight in 7-08. I eliminated the Steyr right away as it has no recoil pad to speak of, and the bolt was tough to operate. The Kimber was not bad but I worry about a 1-9 twist for heavier bullets and the gun was so light I thought is was tough to hold steady. The Sako seemed much more stable to me and has a 1-8 twist. I really like the Kimber for its weight and if I got it in 7-08 the twist at 1-9.5 would not be too bad. Does anyone here feel that the Kimber 84M Montana is too light and not balanced well for off hand shooting?

When you add a scope and sling plus ammo , it will add some weight , and the rifle is certainly a good one.
I would get a .308 myself. But a 1 in 9 twist should be fine for bullets up to 140gr.
No better round for general purpose shooting than the .308...tj3006

By the time you put scope/mounts you can add
1 lb then afew rd in the magazine. My wifes Mel Forbes model 24 with scope etc weight appr
7 lbs and it's a nice balance rifle to hold and carry. So the too light may be right and the just right may be too heavy.

Often the actual weight of a rifle and the balance of a rifle are two different things. A rifle that balances well --that can be carried with a cupped hand just forward of the trigger guard-- will seem lighter, especially at the end of the day, than one whose weight is mostly in the stock and has to be firmly gripped to carry. The balanced rifle will hold on target and swing better than a rifle with an excessively short barrel and it's weight more toward the stock.

sako if you want to hunt with it
kimber if you want the quality

I like the Sako personally, a little bit longer LOP and a bit nose heavy which makes it easy to aim. Both are really good. Don't worry about the twist, they will bot work well up to 150 gr.

John

I certainly agree that a rifle can be too light....

But it's easier to add it than to remove it.....and only you can say what is to light for you.

For me a 28 Ga shotgun at 5 1/2 pounds is perfect for hunting upland game but too light for skeet...

A rifle for me totally decked out should run about seven pounds. Many would consider this too light.

Out of curiosity I've just loaded up the 260 Rem. Kimber 84M, Leupold mounts, Leupold 1.75-6x scope, 5 rounds and sling.
Weight?
6lbs 14 ozs.
That's a managable weight, not too light and certainly not too heavy, and balance is good.
I've found that the 129 grain Hornady bullets are good for deer. Recoil is light, and now that I'm knocking on a bit the Kimber is a joy to carry.

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I've found that the 129 grain Hornady bullets are good for deer. Recoil is light, and now that I'm knocking on a bit the Kimber is a joy to carry. Smiler

I've used 120 grain bullets with good success as well.....a bit flatter but dead deer is dead deer any way you cut it.

if I get the Kimber I was planning on putting a fixed 6X Leupold with heavy duplex on it. In the Kimber I would probably get a 7-08 as despite my keen interest in the 6.5 bore I would want a 1-8 in the rifle. The Sako 85 finnlight is 1-8 but a bit heavier and with a not as nice stock, and you are stuck with steel rings/mounts on the Sako, where I would use Talley LW's on the Kimber, then you read about the "roll the dice" on quality for the Kimbers.

I like the balance a little farther back than some people, but it's not hard to get it wherever you want it. A longer barrel or iron sights moves it out, and lead weight under the recoil pad moves it back.

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Lamar: sako if you want to hunt with it
kimber if you want the quality

Sorry, Lamar, I have to wave the BS flag on this one: Kimber for quality. While some people have good luck with their Kimbers, a lot more have "good luck" with their Sakos. The "Sako luck" is what I call quality.

I have come to my solution. Buy a Kimber Montana in .308 and a Tikka T3 synthetic SS Lite in 6.5 x 55....

Jimmy,
You will not be disappointed with either caliber choice. I have shot both to some extent, and they are easy to shoot accurately, require little practice to get good, and are generally quite accurate. Hope you find them useful
Good shooting,
Graham

every kimber i have seen has been top quality
granted i have not looked at a 1000 of them
but the fit and finish has been excellent
on every one i have seen, especially compared to win 70's and most rem 700's i've looked at.
they also compare to the t/c icons i have seen.

Most of todays hunters are lazy and they prefer light rifles to pack around...But a good 9.5 Lb. 30-06 or whatever with a 26 inch tube will improve your shooting if you take those running or more difficult shots, or if your out of breath from a short run, then the extra weight will settle the gun down for your off hand or rested shot whereas a light rifle will bounce all over hell...I like rifles that are a tad barrel heavy.

I still use fairly heavy rifles, if I want to carry less weight, I will lose about 10 pounds of meself, not me rifle..

Built a rifle of opportunity from a 6.5 Carcano. Removed all the metal I dared including the magazine and trigger gard, Diametrally groved much of the 16" barrel and welded in a light case ramp for a single shot. Only kept enough wood to have a good handle. Modified the bolt face to accept the 6.5x55 case which the rifle got rechambered for.When finished it was less than 5#. At sight in it kicked hard hard. When shooting game the recoil wasn't an event at all.

It made a great --" Hey, let's go get us a deer this evening" --meat getter rifle, and did.

Could be something like Ray using that infamous Mod. 94, 25-35.

In all seriousness Mr. Atkinson has the right handle on things. Although I'm not lay-zee, at any altitude at all the rifle he is talking about would do me in unless he sat me down along a fence overlooking the field he was going to drive the game through. roger

I disagree that hunter are lazy. Today hunters have option if a guys wants to pack a 10 lb rifle he can or a 7 lb rifle and if they are custom shouldn't be any difference in groups.

Ligh rifles. There are some of us who have to take into account physical limitations, I won't bore you with the details. If I could get a rifle which accommodated my intellectual limitations I'd be a top gun.

An after thought. If I had a rifle to accommodate my intellect it would weigh about 1.75 to 2lbs.

I picked up a Kimber Longmaster Classic in 223 Remington, it has the 24" flutted heavy contour barrel. So far I'm really impressed with it and it is truly a quality firearm. It comes in 308 Win too and I was thinking a matched set would be nice. It is light but the balance is good with the scope, mounts, and sling.

How light is too light, or rifle balance? Weight as related to shootability means little. There's been a ton of small game headshot for the pot with 3 1/2 to 4 pound 22 rifles. Many of us have done some of our finest shooting with light, bouncy, fluttery, ill-balanced little rifles..........
That being said; buy the Kimber. Grant.

I have found that when shooting a very light rifle the harder and tighter you hold it he better/more accurate it shoots.

In the case of a bolt rifle with a free floated barrel a very tight hasty sling helps as well.

Especially when shooting with out support.

Way to go oldun!!! After 68 years,a few fusions and a knee replacement on 4-6-08 I will gladly accept a light weight rifle. Especially hunting Mauna Kea at 9000 ft or so. I agree that a heavier rifle will sit more solidly but after getting used to a light weight rifle and their [your] tendency to shoot in front of running game all is good. That is the reason I will usually hunt with my 5lb 13 oz 25 Souper or 260.
Aloha, Mark

My biggest complaint so far is tennis elbow which makes a heavy rifle rather uncomfortable after a while.

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Many of us have done some of our finest shooting with light, bouncy, fluttery, ill-balanced little rifles..........

With regards weight, balance and stabilility, I shot rather well with my very old 22lr Remington Sportmaster. It has a light, short stock stock and a long, fairly heavy barrel (for a 22lr), putting the balance forward. It is light AND steady. (Hey, I was the club champ with that rifle!) I can hold it steadier than my 303.

I now hunt mostly with a 22 hornet (slightly souped up - 60gr @ 2650 - and only small game up to feral goat).

My thinking now is something like a lightweight, short, 25 or 6.5 with suppressor to kill the recoil - and muzzle lift.

so I may bet on getting the Kimber montana to shoot, maybe in a 7-08, as it seems to be a comprimise between the 308 and 260.

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Originally posted by Atkinson:
Most of todays hunters are lazy and they prefer light rifles to pack around.

I've seen a few "lazy" folks myself, but I'd say the mast majority of the Hunters I've been around are not lazy when it comes time to Hunt.

quote:

..But a good 9.5 Lb. 30-06 or whatever with a 26 inch tube will improve your shooting if you take those running or more difficult shots, or if your out of breath from a short run, then the extra weight will settle the gun down for your off hand or rested shot whereas a light rifle will bounce all over hell.

Nothing like a good Hasty Sling to help abate the wiggling. However, if you are breathing hard, I agree a Heavy rifle is less effected. Then the question becomes, why stop at 9.5#? If it settles you down quicker, then a 20# rifle would be even better.

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..I like rifles that are a tad barrel heavy.

Completely agree. I do not want my rifles to handle like a banjo.

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I still use fairly heavy rifles, if I want to carry less weight, I will lose about 10 pounds of meself, not me rifle..

I lost a good bit of weight two years ago and found out that even if you loose 75# that a 9.5# rifle is still HEAVY. Loosing weight on your body does improve your endurance and becoming more fit helps with the breathing and heartbeat. But, a HEAVY rifle(9.5#) is still HEAVY(9.5#).
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Hey Jimmy, The best advice I can give you is to actually handle the rifle before deciding. Best of all is to be able to try one out that a buddy has with a scope already on it, ammo in the magazine and a sling in place.

As you can see in the above responses, what works well for one person is not necessarily what another person would select to use.

Best of luck to you.