I know that this has been asked before, but I am trying to choose between some options that haven't been discussed. At least, my searches didn't come up with anything.
I am wanting to acquire a heavy barrel varmint/target rifle. I am a bang for the buck guy (cheap) and am trying to decide between:
Savage 12FV .223
Howa 1500 varmint .223
Weatherby Vanguard Varmint .223.
These are within $50 of each other pricewise. I know the Weatherby is a Howa, but with a shorter, lighter contoured barrel (22", #3 contour tapers to .74 at the muzzle compared to the Howa #6 contour, .825 24" barrel)
The Savage features a 26" barrel and a 1 in 9" twist, and I realize would probably be the most accurate of the choices. The others have a 1 in 12" twist which should work fine for the 40 and 50 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips I will probably be shooting most of the time.
The Weatherby is the most expensive, but appears to have the better stock, as both the savage and howa are typical black tupperware.
One other possible wrinkle is that I also kind of could use another deer rifle, and since the Weatherby is also offered in .308 and weighs about a pound less than the others, it might suffice for deer in a pinch if I went with the .308. But then that is the cheap side of me trying to do double duty. The main purpose for the new rifle is to shoot varmints, ground spuirrels, rock chucks and maybe prairie dogs down the road and the .308 would be a bit much for that. Not to mention the more expensive bullets and greater powder useage. (I told you I was cheap).
My concern about the Weatherby is its' 22" barrel. I would prefer the 24" for maximum velocity for long shots at chucks. But I kind of like the idea of a little lighter more trim varmint rifle. I had a Savage 112FVS before in .22-250 and it was nice on the bench, but that 26" heavy barrel was a bit much in the field. (I am older now, too, don't want to lug around too much weight). Any insights? I haven't had the opportunity to handle the Weatherby Vanguard varmint special, so if anyone has, I would appreciate any comments. Thanks.

Hmmmmm.....old, cheap and wants a light gun for varmints...I like the NEF in .223. I ran an AI reamer into mine and it shoots great and kills everything I aim it at. Get a spare .308 (or most anything else) barrel and a scope and you have a great combo for under $400 that will kill anything in North America.

Of the three you mention I would take the Weatherby......like you I'd prefer a somewhat lighter , trimmer rig than the Savage varmint weights.

Another option might be a CZ in varmint configuration they are still pretty handy , and they have a great set trigger on them........

Don't get a .308 , it's just not near as nice for the little stuff you mention and maybe even dangerous (ricochets) if you pick the wrong bullets .

I'm not a fan of the Savage but of the choices you mentioned Savage is the best IMO.

Bite your tongue!
I got dizzy just thinking about only owning one varmint rifle.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I am leaning toward the Weatherby Vanguard Varmint in .223. I don't know how decent the stock is, but at least it is a little different than the Savage and the Howa, seeing as it black with red spider web on it. I think the tan with black spider web is more attractive (as shown on the website) but my dealer's distributor indicates theirs are black with red spider web.
The .308 sounds interesting, but SDgunslinger makes a good point about the ricochet possibilities. Plus I have a factory Howa long action Butler Creek stock from my 6.5x55 (that now wears a Boyds' JRS nutmeg laminated wood stock) that is available. I will probably have my dealer order me a Howa barreled action in .270 Win and bolt it into that stock. If it doesn't shoot well, there is always the Boyds option for it, too.
Thanks again for responding. If anyone else cares to chime in, please do. I realize the Savage probably would be more accurate, but that is one heavy awkward rifle with that 26" bull barrel, and the Weatherby is only a few dollars more. I have heard that you can even send the Weatherby to a service center to have the trigger lightened up. Of course, Timney is also an option.

quote:

Originally posted by sdgunslinger:
Of the three you mention I would take the Weatherby......like you I'd prefer a somewhat lighter , trimmer rig than the Savage varmint weights.

Another option might be a CZ in varmint configuration they are still pretty handy , and they have a great set trigger on them........

Don't get a .308 , it's not not near as nice for the little stuff you mention and maybe even dangerous (ricochets) if you pick the wrong bullets.

Have a CZ Varmint .223. Shoots well. Great trigger. Would buy another in a heartbeat, and I may still.

All three you mentioned should be good shooters, I would pick the Savage if the weight is not much of a concern. They flat shoot and the AccuTrigger is sweet! A 1-9 twist is more versatile also.
If weight is a concern, pick the WB. The Howa would be my last choice of those three.

Don't buy a .308 if it is going to be a varminter. If I wanted double-duty I would go .243 not .308.
JMHO.

Remember, you can switch barrel the Savage within the case head family. Buy a .22-250 and swap barrels to a .243, .260, 7mm-08, .308, .338 Federal (.338-08) or a .358 win. Get a long action and use all the .30-06 based rounds. Hard to get more variety except maybe with an Encore.

I wanted to mention , don't fret about the 22 inch barrel for a 223 . Mine with the same length still kicks a 50 gr bullet up to 3500 fps , 22 inches is enough for that cartridge .

I'd be surprised if the Vanguard/Howa didn't shoot nice , it's just real easy to get a 223 to shoot....

quote:

Originally posted by sdgunslinger:
I wanted to mention , don't fret about the 22 inch barrel for a 223 . Mine with the same length still kicks a 50 gr bullet up to 3500 fps , 22 inches is enough for that cartridge .

I'd be surprised if the Vanguard/Howa didn't shoot nice , it's just real easy to get a 223 to shoot....

Thanks, SD, that's the kind of reassurance I needed to hear. What kind of powder are you using to get 3500 fps out of a 22" barrel .223?
IIRC, my favorite powder was Accurate 2015BR, but I also had good results with Accurate 2230 and 2460. Sounds like Hodgdon Benchmark and Ramshot TAC might also be worth a try.

2ndtimer........that's with a max load of H-4895 and 50 gr V-max s . I'd expect Benchmark , TAC , BlC2 , 748 to do well also .

I would opt for something with a 1 in 12" Twist myself.

Last winter I worked with a Stevens Model 200 .223 (basically a Savage without the accutrigger, 22" sporter weight barrel and injection molded stock). While the accuracy was OK, it did seem a little picky about what bullets it shot well.

I sold the Stevens and picked up a Stainless-Synthetic Ruger KM77RFP MKII in .223. This too has a sporter weight 22" Barrel with a 1 in 12" Twist. I have free floated the barrel, tuned the trigger and hand lapped the bore. In addition I did my usual barrel break in procedure. I am shooting 50gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips with Hodgdon's Benchmark at 3310 FPS. While I do not have 100 rounds through this rifle yet, so far I have been totally pleased with the accuracy.

Larry

quote:

seeing as it black with red spider web on it. I think the tan with black spider web is more attractive (as shown on the website) but my dealer's distributor indicates theirs are black with red spider web.

Is it gonna shoot them Varmints or be in a fashon show? The thing is ment to shoot holes in things not dazzel them to death with all the colors of the rainbow. Sounds like my wife picking out a dress. Larry

quote:

Originally posted by trotterlg:

Is it gonna shoot them Varmints or be in a fashon show? The thing is ment to shoot holes in things not dazzel them to death with all the colors of the rainbow. Sounds like my wife picking out a dress. Larry

Hmmm, I guess this would be another vote for the Savage.

I do kind of like the Savages, they are ugly, but they really do shoot. I have a Savage 10 in 17 Remington, used a Green Mountian barrel, it will shoot five shots touching at a hundred yards, and 5 touching 17's isn't bad. Now if I could just find a stock for it in pink plastic with blue flames! Larry

quote:

Originally posted by trotterlg:
Now if I could just find a stock for it in pink plastic with blue flames! Larry

If you do, you should be ready to shoot benchrest with it! Do they get extra points added to their score for "stock garishness"?

I like the4 Vanguard but for me and my money I would go with the Savage with a Accutrigger in it.

I have no none zero doubt that day in and day out this is the most accurate factory rig running.

Shoot it and after working with it for a while if the tube still seems long then bob it to 23" and see how it goes.

I had (note the past tense some of the stupid things we do-eh) and I shortened the tube down to 21" and it ran just great.

Of the 2 223's I have at the present one has a 21" short fat tube and one has a 22" sporter tube.

Good luck to ya!

Mark D

I just bought a savage 12fv last month. Havn't even got 50 rounds through it and found a load to shoot .2. 50gr barnes varminator 25.2g H335. Can't beat savage for accuracy and a great trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by trotterlg:

quote:

seeing as it black with red spider web on it. I think the tan with black spider web is more attractive (as shown on the website) but my dealer's distributor indicates theirs are black with red spider web.

Is it gonna shoot them Varmints or be in a fashon show? The thing is ment to shoot holes in things not dazzel them to death with all the colors of the rainbow. Sounds like my wife picking out a dress. Larry

Uhhh... Actually if it makes holes you are using the wrong bullets varmint rifles make things SPLATTER!

AllanD

I'll cast a vote for a .223 NEF, heavy barrel. Mine is more accurate than I am, and just plain fun to shoot and load for. The rifle + 3-9X40 Bushnell scope out the door was barely over $300.

The Savages look like a good deal, especially with the accu-trigger. I'll probably pick one up in .243 for cous deer and coyote.

2ndtimer

I have two .223's a Remington VSSF a very nice accurate little rifle. The other is a Savage FV12 just like you described an accurate but I'll agree with you maybe a little heavy to carry. Mine is going to be used as a PD gun.

But before you make a decision. Take a look at the Tikka T3 a very nice little gun with a very good feel to it. The rifle weighs in at just a hair over 6 pounds without a scope. My buddy just picked one up after I told him about it. He's had it a few weeks now and it's quite a little shooter. He uses 2015 just like you do.

It's going to run a little more money but it’s really a fine little gun. You should at least take a look at one. Look at the Tikka lite.

I have a Savage 12FV and love it. I had the barrel shortened to 20" and recrowned. I also bought a Boyd's varmint stock and bedded it. That made it shoot five shots that a dime will cover.
My brother had a Howa 1500 and it shot real nice. He bought a CZ527 varmint in the .17 Remington and that thing is awsome. You would be suprised how the little .17 bullets do in the wind.

I recently bought an AR15 with a fluted bull barrel simply because I got tired of pulling the bolt back and forth shooting prairie dogs. I'm real impressed with the way it shoots. Under and inch at 100yds with 40 gr V-Max's(1:12 twist barrel). That's my .02 cents.