I hunt ground squirrels on a ranch that has a new rule that only 22 long rifle guns can be used. The shots range from 25 yards on out to as far as you can reach. I just got back today and managed to laser a few shots at 191, 198, and 204 meters that I took with a 22 long rifle. The problem is I was only 1:6 shots this trip. What can I do to improve my equipment and ammo. What rifle and what ammo in 22LR?

Do not bother on other calibers because it is the rancher's choice not mine.

At the range I used to frequent in Bristol, WI there was a group of rimfire shooter refered to as Pill-Shooters. They would shoot asprin size targets at 100 yards using heavy barreled bolt and semi-auto rifles. They usually used subsonic target like Wolf Match or Eley ammo because of the superior accuracy. The course was IIRC 100 rounds so fat barreled and tuned 10/22's were very popular. I suggest this may work well enough for your need to score a few more hits.

I am curious about what the guy could have against the .17 rimfires. Seems like a rule made in ignorance.

At local club/range, we often shoot 200 22lr matches and the elevation is not the big problem, but rather the wind which does wonders at that distance with the round.
Several use the Rem. 40X, 514T, 541T plus Win. 52's, H&R M12's (gov't issue training rifle that is somewhat of a clone of the 52 and is excellent rifle) civilian version is Model 5200.
Might point out that the M12 can still be purchased from the CMP through affiliated clubs. Excellent value all around.
check it out at www.odcmp.com

Federal 900 series ammo works best for most of us. Not cheap, but excellent ammo and is cheaper than some of the foreign loads (they are good though, but 10-12 bucks a box vs 6 bucks!) We shoot these matches with micrometer peep sights and the std. target gives you an X ring of 2" and 10 ring of I believe 4" so the rifle/ammo/shooter has to be on his game to score very well. Should point out that this is done from prone/sling position, no benches or bipods, sticks, bags, etc.

We have experimented out to 300 yards and it makes it there, but not the thing to do I fear. Elevation is fierce!! 200 yards is not that bad other than doping the wind and many years ago, wind doping data developed for each direction of the wind via the clock face. 1-7,11-5, etc. use a different factor per direction. More than most want or care to remember and besides, it is very hard to tell whether the wind is actually coming from 1-7 or 2-8 o'clock and good compromise is to simply use the 3-9 factor which is full value wind. That factor is 250 and the formula runs as follows:
Example: Range=200 yards V(velocity of wind) is 8 mph.
factor is 250; therefore, 200 x 8/250 = 5.14 minutes of windage adjustment. Nope, wrong, but gett'n there. All we really know for sure in this example is that the wind is blowing and from generally which direction, not exactly, but we can tell whether is from right to left or vice versa. Wind speed estimate can be fairly close, most over estimate wind speed, but direction as per clock face tough to do, and therefore we use the 250 factor as a compromise. That number of 5 plus moa adjustment would need to be cut in half for closer call of the wind impact on the bullet simply because we are pretty much unaware of the true direction of the wind. Again, compromise.
Process may at first seem lengthy and not field friendly, but try it a couple times and just remember the factor of 250, range and est. wind speed and divide answer by 2 and set your sight and squeeze the trigger. Rest assured, about the time you have it pegged, the wind switches but that is the challenge. Perhaps the wind was not your problem, but if it does cause you problems perhaps this will help a bit. We also shoot 200 yard targets at simulated targets of 8,9,&1000 yards or Palma course of fire. Tough course of fire. Good Luck

In 2 1/2 days of shooting I shot 1750 rounds of 22LR. Most of the ranges were from 100-150 yards, but 10% were in the 185-225 range. I stopped after that due to the elevation needed.

quote:

Perhaps the wind was not your problem

Some of the gusts were sending the little bullets a few feet off.

Persoally I think you are trying to perform beyond reasonable exspectency.Like trying to connect with the last 1/16 of an inch with a fly swatter by streching a whole lot. roger

I did not mention the elevation, but if I recall, it requires some 44 clicks @ .25moa/click to get on at 100 and then some 88 clicks more to get on at 200 yards.

Anyway, some 132 clicks/4= 33 minutes of angle to get out to the 200 yard mark. Might want to try and pre sight rifle at 100, then come up some 22 more minutes (inches at 100 yards) and that would put you very near on at 200. That is a lot of elevation for a scope, Leupold MK4's, good 30mm tube scopes, Unertyl's, etc. will work though.

Ranges in area regularly schedule these 22 matches and are very popular for it is indeed a challenge. Can't think of a better way to learn to dope the wind if you can get over the frustration factor!!

Took a couple kids out coyote hunting last year. We were walking thru a pr. dog town, and one of the kids was carrying a pretty accurate 22 LR. He had a 3-9X Simmons on it, so i took a look at the plex reticle and said that it looked like the lower post of the plex was about 6 MOA @ 9X. I asked the kid where it was sighted in at and he said 75 yds. or so. So i thought if he cranked the scope down to 3X that'd be about 3X 6MOA to lower post or 18 MOA, which i thought would get him to about 300 or so. We found a likely couple of dogs at a lasered 290 +/-. So the kid went prone, and got set up off the bipod. His 1st shot was low, but dead on for wind, and when he readjusted the sight picture he nailed this pr. dog. It ran up to the top of the mound, and he hit it again. Another dog ran up to the top of the mound, and he nails that 1 also on the 1st or second shot. Pretty good shooting i thought. But of course there wasn't any wind at all that particular midafternoon.

Hello SSCOYOTE,
Yes indeed good shooting and the shooter sure did have the range on the dogs. First time I pulled targets or "in the pits..." for a 22 match at 200 yards, figured I would have a problem seeing the impact area behind the target frame. I tend to use that instead of seeing the actual hole appear in the target to know when to pull it for it sure saves a lot of strain on the neck during the day. Anyway, no problem, first shot was eye opener for the dirt flew lot more than I would have ever expected and quite easy to tell when the shooter had fired on his target. Would not want to be hit with one of those little rounds even at that distance.

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
...That is a lot of elevation for a scope, Leupold MK4's, good 30mm tube scopes, Unertyl's, etc. will work though. ...

Excellent first-hand observation by "driver".

It wasn't all that long ago you had to have special Scope Bases that adjusted to do extremely Long Distance shooting. (Leatherwood? and others)

But that has all changed with the advent of the Burris Signature Rings and their Eccentric Inserts. You simply mount the scope with the Eccentric Rings so the front of the scope is "elevated" and then do the 100yd sighting-in. This way the scope(any scope) begins with the Elevation adjustment "below the normal centered Zero position" and you have that much more upward adjustment available.
---

Plus, once you get a rifle you are happy with and a particular cartridge(I really like the Remington SubSonic), you shoot the distances to create a Drop Chart. And use a scope with multiple Horizontal lines to see which is the closest.

I believe "Premier Reticles" can even custom fabricate a Reticle for your specific Drop Rate. Only problem would be when you ran out of that specific Lot of cartridges and had to start over with the Drop Chart.
---

The more difficult the challenge, the more beneficial the reward.

Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
The more difficult the challenge, the more beneficial the reward.
Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills.

Your Deer-Slayer-Sling-Shot is on the way. roger

quote:

That is a lot of elevation for a scope, Leupold MK4's, good 30mm tube scopes, Unertyl's, etc. will work though

I was using a Mil-Dot scope and I was past the dots and using the top of the bottom plex post for shots around 200-220 yards.

Hello sscoyote, I was wonderin' about you the other day when I got my latest issue of TVH. Glad to see you are still around. I have shot at 200 with my Cooper .22 lr a bit. Elevation is easy enough to compensate for, but as mentioned already, the wind is what gets tricky.

333_OKH: I have some suggestions but 200 yard duty on the skinny (relatively) little Ground Squirrels with any 22 L.R. cartridge made today will be TOUGH DUTY indeed!
I of course use one of my 17 HMR's when extended range and rimfires are called for.
My suggestions are to use more camoflage clothing! Get far away from your vehicle! Use a rolling portable bench and move in on the Ground Squirrels to keep the range in the 120 yard arena! Use more scope power - I have a Leupold 6x18 variable on one of my Ground Squirrel 22 L.R. Rifles (Kimber Model 22 H/S 24" heavy barrel)! Even at that I know how tough even 150 - 160 yards shots are with the 22 L.R.!
I have a Keb-Lab camoflage shooting mat that allows me to lie prone (in the grass or crop) and when using this I notice I get a lot closer tp the "pop-up" Gophers in the 40 to 70 yard range (even when I have been shooting for a while!) and it takes them some time to discern my prone camoflaged lump as "danger". And hopefully by then they will be "eliminated"!
How about the 17 Mach2 rimfire. Do you think your rancher host would object to its use or even notice the use of it - as they sound quite similar to the 22 L.R.?
Best of luck and try more camo, lying prone on a mat, more scope power, being patient and waiting for the "down under" (denned up) Squirrels to get curious and come up closer to you! Keep using your laser rangefinder for sure and maybe one of the handheld wind gauges would give you some extra advantage to deal with the "covenants" your rancher imposes on you. And by the way turn the rangefinder over to the "yards" mode! Or has Kalifornia seceded from our federation of American States and joined the European Union - and I didn't notice?
Personally, I would go thin the Varmints somewhere else!
Best of luck with your endeavor.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hot Core:

. You simply mount the scope with the Eccentric Rings so the front of the scope is "elevated" and then do the 100yd sighting-in.---
QUOTE]


Hot Core, I always read your posts and usually can't disagree. But I think the front of the scope has to go DOWN. ??

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hot Core:

. You simply mount the scope with the Eccentric Rings so the front of the scope is "elevated" and then do the 100yd sighting-in.---
QUOTE]


Hot Core, I always read your posts and usually can't disagree. But I think the front of the scope has to go DOWN. ??

You are correct!!!

1. I don't guess it would do any good to "claim" I was just saying that to see if you all were paying attention!?!?!?!?!

2. I don't guess it would do any good to "claim" that is what the Scout rifle users need to do for shooting things REALLLLLLLY close?

Thanks JAL.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hot Core:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JAL:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hot Core:

2. I don't guess it would do any good to "claim" that is what the Scout rifle users need to do for shooting things REALLLLLLLY close?

???????roger

Hey Roger, Having it the way I originally said would have the bullet hitting nearly at your feet. And you know those Scout things are for stuff REALLLLLLLY close.

My hat is off to anyone that can stretch the working range of the 22 LR beyond 75 yards.
I won't even try it!!!

Vapodog,
I will tell you a little trick that I stumbled across one day with my 22. With the zero at 50yds the top of the bottom post in the duplex is perfect at 100 on my tasco 3x9. It is easy to shoot clay targets and pieces of clay targets at 100 now.

quote:

My hat is off to anyone that can stretch the working range of the 22 LR beyond 75 yards.
I won't even try it!!!

Guys, I am really not bragging here. I owe most of it to the Mil-Dot scope. Once I figured it out I was on fire. I know 200 is too far. Up to 100 I was running 90%, but past that it dropped to 60%, and past 150 was only about 20%

Really was just the scope, and keeping track of what worked and didnt.

vapodog,
you need to get out and see what a little bitty .22 can do. Especailly with the hotter pills. My favorite hunting ammo is the winchester super X HP. Killing wood chucks with chest shots is easy at 120 yards or so.
I used to zap rock pigons at 250-300 yards as a teen ager. I just knew they were a long ways out, never really paid attention to how far till I went back home as an adult and really looked. No I didn't hit them every time, hell it took two or three rounds to walk in on them. Once I have the range though, whoo hoo! Look out!
It is FUN to stretch a .22 out to the limit of your ability. The big trick is finding ammo that your gun loves. Them put enough glass on it so you can see. Zero it at 60 yards and start playing.
Shooting soda cans at random yardage from 100 to 200 or even beyond is great entertainment, soup cans are better becuase they tip over and roll around. Sure you don't get one shot hits all the time, so what. That's part of the entertainment.
The scope on my 10/22T is shimmed up .070 in the back so that I can reach 300+ with the elevation knob.

Once you try long range work with .22, you will be amazed at what is hittable and how far away.

[QUOTE] The problem is I was only 1:6 shots this trip. What can I do to improve my equipment and ammo. What rifle and what ammo in 22LR?
QUOTE]

I assume you have tried a box of everything you can get you hands on. If not you need to do that. Get a box of 50 of every hunting ammo you can find and shoot it at 50 to 60 yards for group. Don't worry about POA/POI, just group size. When you find one that works, buy a brick or two preferably in the same lot number.

You are looking for 1/2" to 3/8" groups.
If you can't find an ammo that will do that then its time to work on the rifle or get a different one. My 10/22T started life as a 2" rifle at that yardage. After quite a bit of tweeking it will hold 3/8" groups on any given day with Federal Lightnings or Winchester Super X HP's. It still has all its original parts too. No fancy barrel or trigger group, just good solid gunsmithing.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwight:
Vapodog,
I will tell you a little trick that I stumbled across one day with my 22. With the zero at 50yds the top of the bottom post in the duplex is perfect at 100 on my tasco 3x9. It is easy to shoot clay targets and pieces of clay targets at 100 now.

That's the same thing I found with my 10/22 using a 3-9x Tasco; very convenient! Now to see where to sight for 200yards...

quote:

I assume you have tried a box of everything you can get you hands on.

I only tried 4 types of ammo and ended up using the one that was the best suited to the scope dots and the original sight in. They were standard velocity CCI. Not exactly the hottest round, but very consistent.

Consistancey is everything! I don't use CCI Mini-mags because of the lack there of. I can get three rounds that touch and then two that go out to an inch or more. It doesn't matter where in the squence of the firing either. Out of five, three touch, two get dropped.

The Winchester Super X is very consistant and beleive it or not the federal ligtnings are as predictable as sunrise. They arn't screamers, but they always follow the same trajectory, and that is what you want.
If you have an ammo that does that and groups well, you are way ahead of the game.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty Marlin:
Consistancey is everything! I don't use CCI Mini-mags because of the lack there of. I can get three rounds that touch and then two that go out to an inch or more. It doesn't matter where in the squence of the firing either. Out of five, three touch, two get dropped.

My Mini-mags quite often do the same thing, drives you nutz. But they're still over all the best I've tried other than RWS HVHP in my 77-22. And the HP Minis were better than the solids.

On a good accurate 22, I have seen some guys do some amazing stuff, in the field shooting sage rats, with Mil dot Scopes....with high percentages of hits out to 200 yds.... which I bet 85% of all the sage rats are shot in anyway....

I have of course several 10/22 heavy barrel models... but I love a CZ 452 bolt action with a 24 inch barrel that just amazes me....with a 4.5 x 14 Simmons ATV scope and a Stoney Point Target turrent on top, this set up using Federal 22 LR ammo purchased at WalMart is accurate enough for head shots at 125 yds on ground squirrels.....

When I first get in the field, it takes a while to get my eye, trigger finger and getting use to those small targets at 125 yds or so... but once that comes together, the number of head shots I can do is pretty amazing.... I am giving credit to the rifle and round here.... not me as a shooter... as I can miss an elephant with the best of them...

The head shots get addicting with a 22, because the sage rats will flop around like a fish out of water before they expire....more fun than, just bang/flop....

I put a 4 x 16 Mil Dot on the CZ this year to see what it can do for me....

cheers
seafire

33_okh, what type 22 rf rifle are you useing ? i was lucky enough to meet a man who shot at camp perry in 22rf competition i heald two of his winning shooting metals in my hand,its truely a challenge and a hoot to try,just shooting for fun not competition, ive got a tricked out 10/22 with a custom barrel and she''ll lay e''m in there with no wind, but ithink a custom bolt rifle is by far the way to go , anchutz hold most of the records for a darn good reason,regards to all ...jjmp

just an out of the box 10/22 Ruger.....CZ452 huh?????? CZ 452 ULTRA Lux 28" BBL

I would think that you and the rancher would both have some concern about 22 LR bullets ricochetting/skipping and hitting something of value that you weren't aiming at. If you explained the problems with 22 LR ricochets, perhaps he/she would let you use a 17 HRM. A much more practical cartridge with a pretty mild report and the bullets are fragile enough not to cause the ricochet problem that is part and parcel with shooting 22 LRs at a target without a known backstop.

Jeff

The first field I hunted was 4 mile x 4 miles or 16 square miles in size. The nearest neighbor is 8 miles away. My real concern is where is the angus heard today. The 17 probably could be used but I shoot 750-1000 rounds a day. I thought it was less until I went through my stock to take inventory. That figures out to be a lot of money in 17 HMR for shooting ground squirrels.

Wow, a 16 section, 10,240 acre, field is one BMFing field! No wonder ricochets don't concern you.

Jeff

It is really odd. there are smaller fields of around 360 acres each in most of the ranch, but this section is higher and lies on a plateau. All one big squared off area.

thats great shooting for a plain jane 10/22, have you tried federal match 22 rf loads, or winchesters T22,in my older bolt gun that i traded rem 541 HB federal would out shoot the T22, but not by a whole heck of a lot, head shots on squirles was nothing regards jjmp sorry for not answering sooner.