I just shot my little 6.5 Jap carbine yesturday with a scope.I loaeded 129 gr bullets with 35 grs of imr4350 .It shot awesome.The barrel heats quick but it has no kick and is very accurate.Its as light and as short as a ruger 1022 .Can you change the safety on thgis thing.Its the only thing i dont like.I hope to getmore brass and bullets to shoot alot more.I hope to hunt with it for deer and bears this fall.I will try the 160 gr hornady but I like the 129 gr at 2500 fps.

What do the cases look like after firing?
Every Type 38 I have seen has a eccentric chamber and swells the brass.
The 6.5X257 which was an early cure for lsck of reloadable brass in the old days is a good performer. The 6.5X50 case has no issues in the original format for most things one would expect to plug and drag home to eat.

Wish I still had my rechambered (6.5X257) carbine that one of my Ex's relatives lifted from me oh so many years ago. It loved Hornady 129 SP bullets.

I really like the 6.5x50 Japanese cartridge.
Your carbine will be less but I was getting over 2700fps with 129gr Hornadys out of my full length rifle.
My brass always bulged in all of my Type 38's but they still reload nicely.
I punched one out to .260 and it cleaned up very nicely. You get an extra 200fps and the rifle still fed perfectly. I wouldn't do it again though because I like the regular 6.5x50 just like it is.

Those Type 38's are very well made rifles with legendary strength.

Sixty-five years ago, I would have been more than willing to shoot any 6.5' Japanese I came across, but I never saw any over about 5'-10".

Seriously sorry for the poor humour but just couldn't resist.

It is a very good cartridge. Many people I have met in the last 30 years think their Japanese rifles or carbines had oversized chambers. In actual fact, they were using under-sized brass. The problem is one of information "lost" over the years.

The base of Japanese brass was originally about .004" to about .006" larger diameter than .30-06 bases. So making brass from anything with an '06 sized case head gave one brass which was too small at the head. Lots of people did it, shot those cartridges, got away with it, and still do. But, it isn't a proper fit.

That was widely known and widely published just after WWII when many Americans were bringing home war trophies.

If one uses brass about .006" too small diameter at the head (like .257 or .30-06 brass) the head of the case is lying in the bottom of an effectively oversized chamber when fired.

Of course it swells to fill the chamber, and of course it swells more to the upper side of the case, which is the side unsupported by steel at the instant of firing. That results in the brass looking a bit bloated at the head, and also makes it look oval in shape rather than round. But is is to be expected when firing a case which is undersized.

Most Japanese chambers for the 6.5 were very carefully and well done in the 6.5's made before about 1940. And after 1940 the great majority of Japanese rifles made were chambered ifor the 7.7 round.

AC

My cases are not swelled but the primers look like they try to back out a little.My cousin had it before me.He alweays loaded it too hot and put holes in primers.I down loaded then went up .Its alot more accurate than I would have thought.It does heat up quick.the barrel is alot the same size as a regular ruger 10-22.I only paid $50 for it and had a $60 scope mount drilled for it.I had a bunch of 6.5MM bullets and bought 100 pcs of brass.My cousin had a peep site on it I took it off.The little Burris 2x7 mini scope fits it perfict.I hope to pop a deer with it this year.I might try my lapula 155 gr or hornady 160 gr .I think the 129 gr I have been using will work just fine.

AC,

Can you provide any data to support that claim? I've researched the 6.5 Japanese and could only come up with two different cartridges, neither of which is fatter then the 30-06 head size. They are the 6.5 Japanese Service and the 6.5 Japanese Arisaka. Here are case drawings for both:

SmokinJ , can you tell us what fire arm these were used in and at what period in time? thanks roger

bartsche

I'm researching this and trying to find out myself if there is a difference. Some people believe it's just a cartridge fit to chamber issue. That is they believe the cartridge is made much smaller then the chamber to insure they fit all rifles. Others think that the Service cartridge preceded the Arisaka cartridge. Sure with someone had all the data.

As you can see from the case drawings that the Service cartridge is more then generous as compared to the Arisaka cartridge.

I shortened a 6.5x55 Swede die so it would just size (taper) the body of .308W cases and also size the neck to 6.5. Case capacity is the same as the 260 Rem ir the 6.5-.308W. A 6.5 reamer was used to just clean up the hrooibly out of spec jap chamber and headspace the formed cases. The new cartridge feeds perfectly and 5 rounds go easily into the magazine.

I found that the long bearing surfaced 129 - 140 gr flat based .264 bullets shot well. Lately I've tried some of the .268 Hornady 160 gr RNs made for the carcano and they shoot excellently indeed. They should also be an excellent deer bullet.

Larry Gibson

I have a good supply of jap cases now, but at onew point I made them from 35 rems. They are a little short in the neck, but worked fine. The 140 sierra BT with it's long bearing surface shoots great in any T38 I've tried them in.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I have a good supply of jap cases now, but at onew point I made them from 35 rems. They are a little short in the neck, but worked fine. The 140 sierra BT with it's long bearing surface shoots great in any T38 I've tried them in.

Two cases to make 6.5 . First one, which I think the best, is swage down 308 cases. Lyman made a die for this and all that is needed then is to fire form them. The other is the 303 British, but you have to trim the neck shorter and also trim the fat rim down some. You may have to cut an extractor groove. In my opinion lots of work total.

I think my uncle shot 6.5 Japs on Truk Island.

The reason for the .5 is that one was a midget

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by theback40:
I have a good supply of jap cases now, but at onew point I made them from 35 rems. They are a little short in the neck, but worked fine. The 140 sierra BT with it's long bearing surface shoots great in any T38 I've tried them in.

the 220 Swift case is also a canidate.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
I think my uncle shot 6.5 Japs on Truk Island.

The reason for the .5 is that one was a midget

I tried 220 swift cases, but 35's worked just fine so used them.

sounds like you have a nice type 44 carbine, a guy who collects the arisakas told me the chambers were originally to tight and they had problems with them in combat so they re reamed them for better extraxion this is why the bulged cases, mine shaves off a lot of brass with every reload, ive been using norma cases
i would like to find some load data for the short bbl carbine

You 6.5 aficionados may enjoy this website. Give it time to load as it has to translate from Italian:

http://translate.googleusercon...LHwZn6Vk7uJiaioC-hOA

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
I tried 220 swift cases, but 35's worked just fine so used them.

Did you have to turn down the head dia.or was your chamber and dies oversize enough to fit. Did the sized down case come close to the length of the 6.5? roger

Roger, the necks are a little short and the rim is undersized, but neither made any differance. they extracted fine in the halfdozen rifles i tried them in, and shot as well as factory cases with the same load. I have one jap ( bubba) sporter, that was drilled and tapped ect. The damn thing will shoot a 5 shot inch group everytime. I shoot 140 grn sierra BT and 35R cases to piss off other guys with their remchesters when I outshoot them with that fugly jap.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:
Roger, the necks are a little short and the rim is undersized, but neither made any differance. they extracted fine in the halfdozen rifles i tried them in, and shot as well as factory cases with the same load.

The reason I'm puzzeled is that the head dia. was illustrated in a number of publications as being .447".The 35 Rem is list as .457" in dia. I may be getting this wrong but it seams from the information on this entire thread that the Arasaka rifles could have been chambered a good bit larger than the size of the ammo on purpose. Could that have been a good idea for the military of that period? roger

bartsche

I have one 6.5 Arisaka rebarreled to 260 Rem, which you know is a much larger rim, and it fits the bolt and extractor claw with no mods to the claw. I think that extractor and bolt face will fit a large margin of different diameter rims.

In my opinion the 308 case swaged down to 6.5 Jap is the best of the lot. The least work, plenty long enough necks, and very strong.

quote:

Originally posted by nsaqam:
Those Type 38's are very well made rifles with legendary strength.

Yep the early milled ones were the most difficult of the post war military actions for P.O.Ackley to destroy--

the later ones--much easier to wreck

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SmokinJ:
bartsche

I have one 6.5 Arisaka rebarreled to 260 Rem, which you know is a much larger rim, and it fits the bolt and extractor claw with no mods to the claw. I think that extractor and bolt face will fit a large margin of different diameter rims.
The 6.5 Arasaka rim dia. is .476", the body dia. is .447". roger

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SmokinJ:

In my opinion the 308 case swaged down to 6.5 Jap is the best of the lot. The least work, plenty long enough necks, and very strong.[/QUOTE
Now that would be a trick. roger

bartsche,

I'm glad you caught that because I really messed that up. I meant to say when I built the Savage 110 to 6.5x54 MS. The MS rim is much smaller then the 308 bolt face I used and although it extracted it's not as good as it would be with the 308. You are correct about the Japanese round and the 308.

SmokinJ(aka: Starmetal,MaxPayne.Joe,Old joe,et al ad naus.) Great start with your new moniker,maybeso ask your good buddy Don to link all the drivel you've posted under only one name. Idabull

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:
bartsche,
. I meant to say when I built the Savage 110 to 6.5x54 MS. The MS rim is much smaller then the 308 bolt face I used and although it extracted it's not as good as it would be with the 308.

You can get the correct Savage bolt face from Sharp Shooter Supply.It is the same face as the 7.62x39. Carcano, 22&6mmPPC,6.5x54.You can have them install it or do it yourself. I changed one of mine.And they are nice people!
Tele;419-695-3179
roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:
bartsche,
. I meant to say when I built the Savage 110 to 6.5x54 MS. The MS rim is much smaller then the 308 bolt face I used and although it extracted it's not as good as it would be with the 308.

You can get the correct Savage bolt face from Sharp Shooter Supply.It is the same face as the 7.62x39. Carcano, 22&6mmPPC,6.5x54.You can have them install it or do it yourself. I changed one of mine.And they are nice people!
Tele;419-695-3179
roger

Roger,

Yeah, I'm familiar with that place and know that, but since I'm forming down 06 military brass and commercial 7x57 Mauser (with a special die I made to size down the solid web portion of the case) I don't really need to get the 7.62x39 bolt head. I just mentioned it so others building the 6.5MS on an action that doesn't have the Mauser claw extractor are aware of yet another thing that has to be changed......but like I said I messed the post up.

I have been loading and shooting my 6.5 jap alot lately.I just bought another one with a 24" barrel.I am thinking of rechambering it to 260 rem if its worth the trouble.I have had good luck with most bullets with the 6.5 jap except Remington 140 gr corelock and the winchester version.I guess the double diameter has too much pressure.I would up loads with the awesome Lapula 155 gr mega tip bullet.I used 37 grs of IMR 4350 and its a hot load so start at 32 grns.I had no primers flatten or pressure signs.I think the two bands cut on the bullet help to reduce pressure.I am going to try the 120 gr Nosler Blastic tip too.These rifles are very light and very fun to shoot.Its like shooting a 22 after shooting my 338 wm and 416 rm so much.I hope to try it for bear with the 155 gr lapula mega tip bullets.I use them in my 264 win mag also.I like the Norma 6.5 jap brass I can load it many times .I thought about the 6.5 jap russuian brass but i bet its not as good as Norma brass.

I have a type 38 that shoots itty bitty groups but the sights are 10" high at 100 yds! Its mostly issue but smoeone cut the forend to "sporterize" it. But that is all they did.