Now have to start by saying 'm not complaining about bullet performance here but i still want to share some observations on how the 120 tsx did on a whitetail I killed this season.

100 pound buck, approx 100 yds away, broadside. First shot hits high on the shoulder, buck goes down and starts throwing his neck and head, clearly paralyzed from the shoulders down.

I wait a few mintues, no signs of death. I put a 2nd shot through the neck above the spine, buck stops moving but is still breathing.

A few more minutes go by, buck is still alive, so I put another in te base of the skull, finally killing the buck.

Now again, the bullets worked as the buck was anchored. But the first two shots went right through without spilling hardly a drop of blood. The exits were bore diameter. Only blood spilled was from he third shot at PBR.

All that said, based on my experience I'm thinking the 120 gr TSX is a bit tough for small whitetail. I'd have preferred to see sign the bullets had opened up, and more blood loss would have made a much more humane death.

I think I'm going to ballistic tips or plain old 129 gr hornady's for next year. Like to hear other's thoughts or experiences...

I don't have a .260, but Hornady Interlocks have always been my first choice when developing loads for deer hunting. I've used them for over 40 years in various calibers and they never let me down. Good penetration and expansion. You won't be disappointed.

The spine shot isn't a good shot if you plan on killing the animal.

Shot placement is the issue here, I believe.

I shot a larger buck with the 120 grain TSX out of my 6.5x284 at a little over 100 yards. Hit low in the chest (broadside) the entrance hole was caliber diameter and the exit hole was about an inch in diameter. The ground behind him looked like a fire hose of blood was sprayed on it. The deer lunged forward and was found about 30 yards away, dead.

My son uses a 260 and we too found the 120 TSX a bit less than ideal. He probably shot a dozen with the 120 TSX and and shots behind the shoulder if a rib was missed on the way in expansion was minimal. All deer were recovered but they ran farther and took longer to die than we typically see with a lung shot deer. High shoulder shots were DRT. He has moved to the 130 Nosler AB. Still more than enough penetration if bone is hit or at a slight angle, and more expansion if slipped in between ribs. Barnes now has a tipped version that will open quicker.

quote:

Originally posted by df06:
Shot placement is the issue here, I believe.

Maybe, but it sounds as though the bullet could have performed better .
With that bullet a modest load in a .260 may not do the job as well as a full load in a 6.5 x 284 at 100 yards. Had Frank's rifle been used and hit at the same point the results might have been totally different.
Many moons ago I had a 6.5x.284 with a FAST TWIST and a 30" barrel( yes extreme ). The only bullets that held together going through the air were the Norma and Hornady 160gr. bullets and the Barnes' ORIGINAL 156 gr.
One small buck at 50 yards was hit a little high in the shoulder. It almost completely removed the shoulder on the far side. Quick death.
One mature doe was hit running low behind the shoulder at 20 yards. The bullet never exited and the chest innards came out in one jellied chunk. Never finished another step.
A number of deer were killed with my slow moving 6.5 Carcano carbine and Speer psp 140 gr. bullets.
Never a bad kill and all shots were well placed. The bullets that were retrieved, however, showed some, but not much, deformation. The bullets were traveling about 2200 fps. FYI roger

quote:

Originally posted by df06:
Shot placement is the issue here, I believe.

1 high on the shoulder clipping the spine another through the top of the neck above the shoulders also clipping the spine and no blood?

I cant help but to think an expanding sp bullet would have drawn some blood whereas the TSX plowed through without opening much or at all.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
I shot a larger buck with the 120 grain TSX out of my 6.5x284 at a little over 100 yards. Hit low in the chest (broadside) the entrance hole was caliber diameter and the exit hole was about an inch in diameter. The ground behind him looked like a fire hose of blood was sprayed on it. The deer lunged forward and was found about 30 yards away, dead.

Wonder if the difference is whether or not you hit a rib as adamsdjr observed...

I've seen 100gr TTSX and 120gr TTSX used on 'roos out of two 264 WM's.

The damage done by the 100 TTSX was extreme..the animals were almost cut in half with upper chest shots...

The 120's were similar in that they set up immediately, but didn't do as much damage.

But these bullets were pushed very fast out their respective 264WM's. A lot faster than a 260 obviously.

If that was my 260, I'd try the 100 TTSX with a stiff load and see what the result was.......

quote:

Originally posted by Labman:
... Hornady Interlocks have always been my first choice ... You won't be disappointed.

+1

Killed a doe lope @250 yards with a 260 and 120 DSX. Bang flop with a double lung shot back in 2010. Same bullet did just as well on a buck from a 6.5x55 @200 yards in 2011. Last year's buck was taken at 230 yards with an 80 gr TTSX .257 at 3900+ fps. Went in behind last rib, broke opposite shoulder exiting there. Another bang, flop. I agree that the 100 grain is worth trying if your twist will handle it. Barnes, as well as the several copies out there, will always penetrate, usually 100% and tear up everything in between.

Would I be out of line since I didn't use some alphabet bullet but instead loaded up a batch of 140gr Core Lokt bullets for my 260. I've shot 4 deer with them and they killed like the Hammer of Thor.

I shoot the 100 ttsx in mine over benchmark. Works perfectly. I consulted Barnes about twist rates and they said there is really no worry of over stabilization problems.

Switch to a TTSX. I love barnes bullets and if I am anticipating an impact at under 2800 fps I use a TTSX especially on whitetail. They are just too damn small and fragile to expect a heavy constructed bullet to open up. The TTSX open up better for me small game.

The 100 grain Partition is an awesome performer on deer from the 260. Rapid expansion with great penetration, good trajectory to 300 yards.

i usually load the 120 nosler ballistic tip. l really like these bullets. and i have also shot the 120 sierra pro hunter. like them to. we are talking 'white tail'

I have only used one Barnes bullet on game so I honestly can't say they work any better or any worse than a standard cup and core bullet. I used the 100gr XLC(pre tsx) on an antelope. It was a classic broadside shot between 200-250yds? The exit wasn't that large but the antelope did quickly die. I stopped using the Barnes bullets on Antelope and deer as I feel a standard cup and core bullet like the Sierra pro hunter or game king expand better and will do more damage to internal organs that a mono-metal bullet will do.
In my 6.5x55SE I have been working on loads for the 120gr ballistic tip on up to the 140gr bullets. I do feel for this caliber and with deer size game a standard cup and core makes much more sense. Now if I were going after Elk and wanted to use the 6.5x55 I would consider the TSX or TTSX for it's penetration and ability to stay together and retain it's weight.

I have been hunting whitetails with a 260 for the last 16 years. I had always shot 120gr bts or 120gr sierras. A hunting buddy of mine finally talked me,or shamed me, into buying a box of barnes 100gr ttsx. I shot a 140lb dressed buck at 313yds quartered slightly away DRT.Entered just behind the shoulder and exited through the middle of the off shoulder. I was very happy with the way this bullet performed.I know this was just one small test,but lord willing I will give it a couple more next year. Very accurate also.

quote:

1 high on the shoulder clipping the spine another through the top of the neck above the shoulders also clipping the spine and no blood?

I cant help but to think an expanding sp bullet would have drawn some blood whereas the TSX plowed through without opening much or at all.

This is inconsistent with your description of what happened.

Small holes in the hide are the norm with monos. I shot one at almost 300 yards like you describe your first shot. Caliber size hole in the hide on the way in. Fist size hole in the onside shoulder blade. Through four ribs edge wise near the spine. Fist size chunk out of the spine. Two more ribs edge wise. Quarter size hole through the off side shoulder blade. Caliber size hole exiting the hide. Virtually no blood on the outside even though the upper lungs and descending aorta were well and truly shredded. The deer would have made it maybe fifty yards absent the spine damage because it had no blood pressure.

Did you field dress and or butcher this deer and actually trace the bullet path?

I have seen poor to non-existent blood trails with monos with really severe internal damage. I don't think out of about 75 I have examined that I have seen a hole bigger than a couple inches. Two of the 75 made it past 50 yards, one shot in the knee and one gut shot. No lost deer.

I don't like that sometimes I don't get a blood trail. I do like that the chest contents have been uniformly shredded and r-eusult in zero blood pressure so all that they can do is leak. The fact that a shredded chest with smaller size holes is more prone to plugging and thus no blood trail is not good, but with no blood pressure they just don't go far, they can't. All three of the deer I shot this year had very poor blood trails. One made it about 70 yards, the other two about 100 feet.

I went with the 120 in my model 7 260 since it gave better accuracy than nosler ballistic tips and Sierra pro hunter plus better velocity with the lighter bullet. Same experience as Miles58 - excellent internal damage but very little blood trail. This is a pain in pine straw but they never go over 40 yards. Bullet always exits even when shot front to back length of deer.
(Got the gun cheap from brother in law who lost deer due to poor performance (or shot placement?) with factory loads. He went back to 30-06 blast-amatic)

quote:

Originally posted by AndynMe:
I have been hunting whitetails with a 260 for the last 16 years. I had always shot 120gr bts or 120gr sierras. A hunting buddy of mine finally talked me,or shamed me, into buying a box of barnes 100gr ttsx. I shot a 140lb dressed buck at 313yds quartered slightly away DRT.Entered just behind the shoulder and exited through the middle of the off shoulder. I was very happy with the way this bullet performed.I know this was just one small test, but lord willing I will give it a couple more next year. Very accurate also.

That's encouraging info. I also have one test of the 100gr TTSX in my Grendel, at about fifty yards, with excellent results. Accuracy was good too at the range before the hunt. I have wondered how the bullet may perform say at two hundred yards out of the Grendel. That's why your report is encouraging. I can get some pretty decent velocity with that bullet out of the little Grendel case.

My reloading bench is not yet setup after my move, but I'm working on it. Hopefully I can get it together before it gets too warm to hunt the hogs.

KB

quote:

Originally posted by Wayfaring Stranger:
[QUOTE]1 high on the shoulder clipping the spine another through the top of the neck above the shoulders also clipping the spine and no blood?

I cant help but to think an expanding sp bullet would have drawn some blood whereas the TSX plowed through without opening much or at all.

I agree with you, a more frangible bullet might have showed some blood. But still probably not much, considering where your first two shots impacted the deer.

Next time you kill a deer, do an autopsy of it, looking for where the major blood vessels are. They are not in the top of the neck, but very low in the neck and then in the heart/lung areas.
Neck shots are intended to tear up the spinal cord, not blood vessels. Often they are very effective if they are a low and clip a carotid artery, but it is not unusual for a shot that is a bit high to just knock the animal out temporarily.

If the nervous system is damaged enough it may be paralyzed, which seems to be what happened with yours. But if not, it is not unheard of for them to wake, leap up, and run off.


And sure , sometimes death from a neck shot is very rapid, if you call 1-3 minutes rapid. If the nervous system is damaged enough, signals from the brain of the animal to its organs such as the heart and lungs will be short-circuited and the deer will in effect be smothered as its cells will no longer be getting any oxygen to keep it alive.

All of that explains why he neck shot is not generally considered the best target to pick unless you are a really good shot and the animal is not on the run.

quote:

Originally posted by miles58:

quote:

1 high on the shoulder clipping the spine another through the top of the neck above the shoulders also clipping the spine and no blood?

I cant help but to think an expanding sp bullet would have drawn some blood whereas the TSX plowed through without opening much or at all.

This is inconsistent with your description of what happened.

small entry,spine damage, small exit. Yes I dressed it. Where is the inconsistency?

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by Wayfaring Stranger:
[QUOTE]1 high on the shoulder clipping the spine another through the top of the neck above the shoulders also clipping the spine and no blood?

I cant help but to think an expanding sp bullet would have drawn some blood whereas the TSX plowed through without opening much or at all.

I agree with you, a more frangible bullet might have showed some blood. But still probably not much, considering where your first two shots impacted the deer.

Next time you kill a deer, do an autopsy of it, looking for where the major blood vessels are. They are not in the top of the neck, but very low in the neck and then in the heart/lung areas.
Neck shots are intended to tear up the spinal cord, not blood vessels. Often they are very effective if they are a little low and clip a carotid artery, but it is not unusual for a shot that is a bit high to just knock the animal out temporarily.

If the nervous system is damaged enough it may be paralyzed, which seems to be what happened with yours. But if not, it is not unheard of for them to wake, leap up, and run off.
And sure , sometimes death from a neck shot is very rapid, if you call 1-3 minutes rapid. If the nervous system is damaged enough, signals from the brain of the animal to its organs such as the heart and lungs will be short-circuited and it will in effect be smothered as its cells will no longer be getting any oxygen to keep it alive.

All of that explains why he neck shot is not generally considered the best target to pick unless you are a really good shot and the animal is not on the run.

well said, food for thought.

posted 17 January 2014 05:34 Hide Post

quote:
Originally posted by miles58:

quote:
1 high on the shoulder clipping the spine another through the top of the neck above the shoulders also clipping the spine and no blood?

I cant help but to think an expanding sp bullet would have drawn some blood whereas the TSX plowed through without opening much or at all.



This is inconsistent with your description of what happened.



small entry,spine damage, small exit. Yes I dressed it. Where is the inconsistency?

What I call a high shoulder shot is a pretty sudden killer. A higher hit that clips the top of the spine can do that though. A little low for a high shoulder shot will take out the descending aorta and they leak pretty well while they're down. That shot also drops blood pressure almost instantly to zero.

Your description makes sense if you clipped the top of the spine. They don't bleed much there and it may well paralyze them without killing.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Would I be out of line since I didn't use some alphabet bullet but instead loaded up a batch of 140gr Core Lokt bullets for my 260. I've shot 4 deer with them and they killed like the Hammer of Thor.

If you are out of line then I join you. I use Sierra bullets exclusively and have so for years in a number of cartridges, currently a 7mm-08 and a 6.5-06. I never concern myself with bullet performance I just need to make sure I put them where it counts, Sierra does the rest. I recover few but here is a recent 7mm 140gr angled down through a good sized red spiker. Do you really need anymore than this?

120 TSX out of a 7-08 at 120 yards small exit but heart was in 3 pieces when I gutted it. 1 drop of blood between where it was hit and where it died, 15 yards away.

120 TTSX at 2,900 in my 260 similar results. 50 yd quartering away shot exited through off side shoulder. Heart in two pieces this time, exit not traumatic.

Same load, deer facing me, shot center chest, no exit. Plenty of blood, ran about 25 yards. Small piece of the heart cut.

Dead deer, but I think mono's have to be run hard. The 100's might do more damage, but I've heard complaints that 110's at 3,300 in a 270 penciled through. Might be crap but I wasn't there.

125 or 140 Partitions may do more damage if that's watcha want. If you want big blood trails, I don't think heart shots are best move.

Dead is dead though....

I have used the 120 grain TTSX bullet in my 6.5-06 for 2 years now and have shot 15 deer of different sizes with it.
All shots have been on the shoulder or just behind it.
About 2/3 have been DRT, 1 deer ran 50 yards and the rest fell inside 30 yards.

The exit holes have always been small, but the internal damage has been very good.

The TTSX design opens easier than the TSX and it is clearly the barnes version I will recommend when using the 260 or other .264 cartridges at similar speeds.

I prefer to use the TTSX because of better ballistics and easier expanding at longer ranges.

At higher speeds than I get from my 6.5-06, I would use the TSX bullet as I fear that the TTSX would shear its petals if going much faster when shooting at short distances.

Barnes bullets are great, but not necessary on deer etc. They need to be pushed fairly fast and aimed for bone for the best results. They are hard to beat on heavier animals.

The way things are going, they may be the only option before long.

Just bought my wife a 260 for Christmas as she was a little bit cold on her 06. She shot it fine enough but I could tell she needed something lighter with less kick. She weighs 130 lbs. We just took the 260 out to fill her January cow elk tag. It was sighted in with factory 140 grn. She shot a young cow behind the front leg at about 60 yards. The cow went about 30' and went down lots of blood in the snow behind the exit hole and she coughed up blood before she went down. I was impressed, my 300 wont kill any better than that. Looks like the new .260 is a keeper. Once there is some fired brass to work with I will try and find a load with a 120 partitions if they make them in that wt. I tried Barnes bullets when they first came out and had no luck at all with them. Likely they have them sorted out now but noslers always work for me and the barnes aren't any cheeper.

quote:

Originally posted by Rub Line:

quote:

Originally posted by Labman:
... Hornady Interlocks have always been my first choice ... You won't be disappointed.

+1

Not knocking Barnes, but I've always used the 129 Hornady or 125 Partition with my Swede's.

I went through 140 gr and 129 gr Hornady InterLocks in my 6.5x55 and found them both to be accurate but much too penetrative for Whitetail deer. I tried Barnes TSX and it also was accurate; I stopped using them when I saw a lot of reports of caliber-sized exit holes. I assumed this meant the long ogive allowed the bullet to flip over after penetrating a little and penetrate the rest of the way base first.

If I had to stay with one great bullet for everything it would be the 129 gr Interlock, but for a specific Whitetail bullet I settled on the 120 gr Ballistic Tip. It was great - good accuracy and great Whitetail penetration - it was a much shorter walk to find the dead deer than any of the other bullets I tried.

Hi all
Great results with 120 TTSX on Impala.80 TTSX on Blacktail,Fallow,and Pronghorn with 243 and 6mmx284 all DRT.210 TTSX in 338 on Kudu,Zebra,Gemsbok,Hartebeest,Impala,Warthog one shot each DRT. 286 TSX in 9.3x74R on Cape Buffalo one shot DRT. Recouvered from Kudu and Hartebeest perfect expansion.Bill

Old Win mod 70, 264 win mag,good ole core locs, 206 yards DRT

I typically get slow kills with TSXs. In a general sort of way I've had my fastest kills on small, soft and fast animals by using small, fast and soft bullets. You only got 1 1/2 out of three. A Ballistic-Tip would make a very evident difference.

If you wanted to hunt elk or moose with 6.5, the TSX would be about as good a choice as anything.