Hi,
in my spare time I go walkabouts shooting rabbits with a .17hmr. As all of my hunting is done on foot I use shooting sticks for support which limits the potential range to about 300 yards.

I'm happy with the .17 calibre for rabbit shooting I just need a bit more MV for the additional yardage.

I guess I want a .17HMR on steroids - so I'm looking to buy a .17 Rem Fireball.

I'd like to know from any .17 Rem FB users whether the FB has overcome the widely publicized fouling and barrel burning problems of the .17 Rem ?

pisces,
I have and shoot the 17 hmr, 17 ackley hornet, 17 mach iv, 17 fireball and 17 remington as well as the tac 20. Started shooting the 17's in the mid -90's. The fireball is my most recent addition.
I am not a high volume shooter, so if I shoot five or six rounds at a time that is about max. However, I think the "widely publicized fouling and barrel burning problems of the .17 Rem" is somewhat over stated.
I remember reading an article in one of my small caliber news of a fellow that had fired several hundred rounds through his 17 mach iv and was still getting sub inch groups. I can't remember whether he was using moly bullets or not. I don't particularly care for moly. I have at least 43 rounds fired out of my rem model 7 predator and don't plan to clean anytime soon. Shot 4 fox last week with no problems.

Here is a previous post of mine regarding my first experience with the model 7 in 17 fireball....

I love small calibers and have been shooting the seventeens for years. Back when virgin valley firearms was in business I had them make barrels for my contenders in 17 ackley hornet, and 17 mach IV. Both had 22†barrels that were light, fast and accurate. Two drawbacks,--single shot and with the original contender you have to open the action if you let the hammer down on an unfired round before you could re-cock the trigger.

For the last couple of years I’ve had the craving for a repeater in 17 mach IV. I have my share of heavy barreled varmint rifles and recently , I have been doing much more game calling and “walking varmintingâ€. Most of my shots are 100 yds and under. I wanted a light rifle that would have a 22 “ barrel and a synthetic stock and a repeater. I would mount a 2 x 7 up to a 3 x 9 scope. . To my mind the mach IV with a 20 gr. bullet at 3800 to 4000 fps is a great varmint round.
Remington must have been reading my mind because they came out with their model 7 predator in 17 fireball. I couldn’t resist.
I have 17 fireball dies and brass on order, but I do not have them in my possession yet. However, I do have 17 mach IV brass, dies and a number of loaded rounds using 25 gr. Hornady hollow points over 15.8 and 15.9 grains of H-4198. Being the impatient type, couldn’t wait to shoot the rifle and do some load testing. I mounted a scope and went to the range. I used some of these loaded rounds to zero the scope and to fireform some brass in the 17 fireballs’ chamber. My first outing was somewhat disappointing. Velocity was sup-par and groups were over an inch.
Needless to say, I was bummed. I went home and took the rifle out of the stock and worked on the stock to free float the barrel. I also dug out some of my old Small Caliber News mags. I had forgotten about using Reloader 10x, so I loaded up some 18 gr. Bergers ,some 20 gr. V-maxes and some 25 gr hornady hollowpoints, all over several different load densities of reloader 10x.
Loads ranged from 17 grains to 18.3 grains. One fellow reported loading 19 grains, but I wanted to be conservative to start with. I fired a total of 37 rounds, 4 shots to zero and then fired 11 three shot groups. I cleaned the barrel before this second outing. I figured the 4 shots I took to zero the scope would sufficiently foul the barrel. I did not clean between the first and eleventh group.

Observations:
Although I am a blue steel and wood guy, I like the camo barrel and synthetic stock on this little rifle. The new x-mark pro trigger breaks crisply at 3.5 lbs. After free floating the barrel, groups were tighter and more consistant.
+/ 3950 fps out of a 22 inch barrel and no pressure signs, and room to spare in the case. A velocity over 4000 fps should be attainable without pressure signs.
These groups were shot in a cross wind 10 mph+ At 100 yds. and under, wind shouldn’t be a factor unless you’re shooting in a hurricane.
The 18 and 20 gr bullets shot the better groups
The bullets were loaded to the same seating depth, and the 18 gr bergers’ at 1.720 oal shot just as good if not better than the 20 gr. V-maxes’ (the longest bullet overall) at 1.800 oal.
The first group (25 gr hdy h.p., 17 gr rl-10x) and last group were both sub inch. Chances are I can get off more rounds in a day than I’ll shoot before accuracy is degraded.

The following pix are of the model 7 predator and the 11 different groups using reloader 10-x.
GWB

The "widely publicized" rumors and misconceptions are complete bullshit. The large cased 17 centerfires foul and burn barrels no more than any other high velocity round in any caliber.

I've easily shot over 50 rounds between cleanings with no significant loss of accuracy in either my factory 17 Remington or my Pac-Nor barreled 17 Mach IV.

Go for it, the 17FB is a great little round for anything up to coyote sized critters.

Chris

Like Cisco said good barrels are everything! I have 17M4 that I put over 200 rounds at 4250fps in about 4 hours of ground squirrel shooting with no fouling problems. I was still hitting them at 300+ yards when I ran out of ammo. The 17 Fireball like it's twin brother the 17M4 is a fine cartridge.

Many thanks for the very informative replies. That's put my mind at rest re' barrel fouling issues.

Any idea what sort of barrel life I can expect with normal (not hot) ammo', in a factory Remington Seven Predator ?

pisces,

it will be a function of how many and how fast. If you don't burn up your barrell you ought to get several thousand rounds. Like I said, I seldom shoot more that four or five rounds in an outing. At that rate I'll go before the barrell. Another thought. I generally do not shoot over 200 yds. I wanted something light and quick that was not a single shot. The savage predator might be more accurate. You also might want a longer barrell or a heavier rifle for long range.
GWB

I'll be reloading 20 grain with a MV of about 3,700 fps and no rapid fire range work. So, hopefully, I'll get a reasonable barrel life.

Maybe the SPS Varmint would be a better choice.

Big fan of the 17 caliber. I had a beautiful Volquartson in 17 HMR - loved the rifle but hated the cartridge. I have a beautiful Sako AI Hunter 17 Rem that is a joy to carry and a wonderfully effective round. Perhaps it's just me but find that I get more spectacular kills with it on varmints than my identical rifle in 223. Lou

In a good barrel, the fouling with 17s is a non-issue. Granted, Remington did turn out a few 700s in .17 Rem with rough bores, and perhaps that's where some of the rumor of "problems" got started.

But with a good barrel, you should easily be able to wring out 40 or 50 rounds -- maybe a good bit more -- before you start to see any detrimental affect on accuracy.

Geedubya:

I was thinking seriously on the 17 Fireball, but was also becoming interested in the 17 Ackley Hornet...

In your experiences, what would be the plus and minus of either cartridge over the other..

I figure the 17 Fireball is a 3700 to 3800 fps cartridge, while the 17 K Hornet would be more around the 3400 fps range...

would appreciate your feedback..

cheers
seafire

Seafire, sorry it took me so long to reply, been a crazy day. Its getting late and I am enjoying my second adult beverage so lets see if I can string together a couple of cogent thoughts.

I don’t really try to hod rod these little cartridges as most of the shooting I do is a 100 yds or under and they shoot pretty flat. Also, a 20 or 25 gr bullet will destroy a squirrels meat or a foxes pelt at 3800 fps. ( they also do a number on turkey.)

Ackley hornet.
As others have said, this is a very efficient little cartridge. Thirty four hundred feet per second plus using 10 gr of powder. That’s a plus. Having to form from 22 hornet brass then fireform is a negative. Todd Kindler of the woodchuck den sells formed brass for the 17 ackley hornet. His prices are reasonable. Using anything but an arbor press and Wilson dies is some what of a challenge due to the small size of the cartridge. Due to the small charge, very small differences in charge weight have a big effect on velocity. I have mine in a Thompson contender, with 22 inch bull barrel by virgin valley. A bolt action repeater would be nice.
I hate to admit it but I have misplaced my load data on the Ackley hornet, and its been a while since I loaded any. I’m not a high volume shooter and I generally load a hundred or so of these small round at a time. It might take me a couple of years to shoot em all. Usually I will write the load data on the box, but in this case I did not. If I recall , I did not use reloader 10x in the Ackley hornet. I had my best luck with “Lil Gun†in this cartridge. I believe that the 20 gr v-max over 10 gr. Of “lil gun†was running around 3400 to 3500 fps.

17 fireball
I have the 17 mach iv in a contender with a 22†bulberry bull barrel, but once again I was wanting a repeater. That’s why I bought the Remington 17 predator. Hit a crow with a 25 grainer at 3700 fps at any reasonable range and its like busting a pillow in a pillow fight, feathers fly. I have dies to make 17 mach iv brass out of 221 fireball brass but I tend to buy this also from todd at the woodchuck den. Other than the hassle that comes with prepping and reloading small caliber rounds, I can think of no negatives about this round. Now with factory brass and increasing choice and availability of powders and bullets thing are even better for this round. I enjoy the fireball so much that I have almost stopped using my 17 hrm, 17 rem, 17 ackley, 221 fireball and 22 hornet.

The results of 11 different fireball loads with 10x are posted above. However to summarize the max load I tried was 18.3 gr of reloader 10x. with 20 gr hornady v-max three shot group chrono’d at 3944, 3936, 3868 fps respectively. I have some old bergers that I weighed at 18 gr. Same load density and 3 shots ran at 3873, 3967, 3908 fps. I have an article in small caliber news where a fellow safely loaded 19 grains of reloader 10x in his 17 mach iv. I tend to be somewhat conservative so I cut it off for my first session at 18.3 gr. I believe you could safely get over 4000 fps with 19 grains of reloader 10x and a 20 gr hornady v-max.

I am a rifle loony. I am loading for 38 different chamberings (I think). I love em all, but I don’t’ think you could go wrong with an accurate 17 fireball and you could probably get into a 17 fireball cheaper than having a 17 ackley in a repeater custom built.
I started to build a 17 ackley hornet on a browning low wall but ended up selling the rifle to a bud. A contender barrel from MGM or bulberry would probably be the most cost effective way to go. A cooper classic would also be nice if you wanted to have a dynamite single shot.

Good luck and let us know if you decide to drop the hammer on either/or
GWB

GeeDub:

Thanks for taking the time to type all of that info..

I am sort of in the same position that you are in believing the 17 Fireball/Mach 4, will take care of ALL 17 caliber needs at my house...

I was going to get a barrel or two in different barrel weights, and put together a couple of them.. I have access to a die to make them out of 223 and 222 cases..

I have a Ruger 77/17 with the heavy barrel that I can't seem to get rid of, unless I am willing to sell it for about 40% of what it is worth...
ammo is just too spendy for what you get...at least for a handloader in my book..

To be truthful, what I was thinking about on the 17 Ackley is to get a barrel from a 17 HMR in a New England Single shot... and get it mounted on a Center fire bottom and then have it rechambered to the 17 Hornet or 17 K Hornet..

Or if I can swap my Ruger 77/17 for someone who has a 77/22 Hornet they don't want.. but wants a 17 HMR..

That would work out great! Then I'd put a 17 K Hornet on that... which I assume is pretty much the Ackley Hornet..

I really think the Rimfire one, is just too small and too spendy.. the 17 Rem is too much for that bore... but a Bee, or Fireball or Hornet case, would be just right for that bore diameter...

Cheers
seafire

I contacted Remington by e-mail and asked the question:

Will barrel life be similar for .17 Rem and .17 RFB ?

Reply from Remington: Yes.

Seafire,
The main downside I see to a bee or hornet these days is the time and amount of labor it takes to go from start to finished ammo. One can buy factory brass for under $50 per hundred for the fireball.

Pisces.
Not trying to sound smug, but I have found that I generally have to pay to play. You could probably shoot a thousand rounds out of a rifle, then sell it to someone else, secure in the knowledge that you enjoyed the rifle and that they are getting a gun that is still accurate and in good working order. If you reload you will save the difference between what you bought the rifle for and what you sold it for. Then go and get you another or two or three.
Being that I am a low volume shooter, and I'm satisfied with the loads I have worked up I'll probably shoot less than 50 rounds per year out of my 17 predator If I get 2000 shots during the life of the barrell thats forty years. I'm 57 now so chances are I won't have to sell till I'm 96 or 97. By then there's no tellin what this world will be like.
GWB

Seafire, I have 2, 17 Ackley Hornets. They're a hoot to shoot. 20g V max at about 3800 fps with 10.4g of Lil Gun. They shoot flat to about 250. After that it's M4 territory. Build one and you'll have a great time!