Nosler has ALWAYS differentiated between the Ballistic Tips for varmints and those designed for game.

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Originally posted by 1894mk2:

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Originally posted by Stonecreek:
I've loaded 90 grain BTips for deer at somewhere around 3200 fps. I'll report on their performance in a few weeks.

This is easily the best deer bullet I've used in 243/6mm - flat shooting and very effective. As you state complete exits are not the norm but killing power is amazing!

I'm interested that the bullet is stabilised in a 1 in 12. I would have thought that it was getting on for the length of a standard non boat tail 100gr?

Adam: They shoot nicely in my Sako .244. I measured the twist as accurately as I could, and it kept coming out about 11.8". Since Sako uses metric measurments for all of their machining, I interpret this to be 1-300mm. Similarly, I expect that the .243 and other barrels listed at 1-10" twist for Sako are actually 1-250mm, or closer to 1-9.85" (close enough for gov'ment work.)

My old favorite 6mm bullet, the Nosler 100 grain Solid Base (with lead tip) scattered around the target in this gun, although it did not show the same yawing paper imprints I got with it in a Remington 722 .244. So I tried some 90gr BTips hoping that they might just be short enough to stabilize. I think that you can count the plastic tip off of the bullet length for stabilization purposes, since its mass is de minimus; in other words, measure the length of the BTip as if it were a hollow point, measuring just to the base of the plastic.

At any rate, the 90gr BTip shoots nicely in my Sako.

That old Solid Base was a great bullet, wasn't it!!? 100gr 243; 100gr and 120gr 257; 120gr 264....accurate, deadly. Dang it! I'm still mad at Nosler!!

Agreed, the solid base was/is a great bullet, I think marketing and dollars/cents is what made them replace it with another product of higher price, as no complaints with it.

Took my RSI #1 out today, 6x Swarovski, 200 yds, WW 95 ballistic tip factory ammo just because I had some and it did 3 shots in 1.25-1 3/8" group, not bad at all I say in this rig with factory ammo/gun.......6-.65 MOA.

Next, 100 gr corelokt, 3 in a hair over 1.5" which is .75-.8 MOA.

I was impressed and KNOW the guy sending me the money for this gun will enjoy it for a long time, said a buddy has killed over 100 deer with the 100gr solid base in 243!!! That is something.

When my 243 is gone, I am loading some 95 btips in my 6BR, seeing it shoot 105's at 2850 last chrono, I expect perhaps 2950 with 95's in it's 26" bbl. If/When I get a kill w/said bullet- I'll report myself.

I have shot several with 95 BT and a bunch with 100 Sierras and 42 gr 4350. None were shot twice, several ran not more than 50 yards. All are still dead to this day. These standard bullets work well on deer at under 3000 fps muzzle velocity, as deer are pretty soft.

About had a chance last evening, but my 10 yr old got lined up on his first deer and got her with the 7BR, 130gr speer.

Will hope to try that 243/95 combo the next couple of days on a deer/hog myself. Had the boy use the 7BR w/4x Nikon to reduce the 'wobble' effect as the 243 has a 6x Swarovski.

Congrats to the kiddo -- and to you for showing him the way.

So who was more elated, you or him?

And how did that 130 grain Speer perform?

Ballistic tips are great until you find their limitations and then you re-think why you use them in the first place. I used them in a .308WIN for 3 years and would have sworn on a Bible they didn't make a better whitetail bullet on earth than a 150gr .308 BTip. One shot kills, no trailing involved.

Well, if they work that good in a .308Win it just stands to reason they would be the hammer of Thor in a .270Win. I loaded up a batch and took them out to the range. You could cover a three shot group with a quarter and they went through the Chrony right at 3100fps. I knew I had a winner so out to the woods I go. I see a nice buck chasing a doe in and out of the trees. It's going to be a snap shot at best, but I've been in a rut and decide I need this animal. As the animal darts between two trees I squeeze the trigger. The bullet hits the deer in the back ham and meat and fur fly! the sun is shining though the trees behind the deer and a red halo appears above it from the blood mist in the air. The deer draws his ass up and I can see the grimace on his face as I chambered another round. I'll admit I was a little unglued from the first shot, but damn if the second one didn't do the same thing except in the front shoulder. Now I'm feeling bad. the deer is hobbling in circles. The doe is standing there watching, probably in amazement this deer is exploding a little at a time. The third shot is a clean miss. I settled down and put the forth one in vitals and it was over with.

When I got to the animal there was softball sized hunks of meat missing from the front and back. Most of the meat was ruined and I watched this animal die a horrible death. I'll be the first to admit it was some terrible shooting on my part, but a well made bullet would have anchored this animal on the first shot and the second would have done it in.

They worked pretty good in the .308, but were an absolutely failed at .270 velocities. I don't use them anymore. Too many good bullets out there.

Terry

From what I've witnessed, and from what logic dictates, the conclusion that a well made bullet would have anchored an ass shot deer is rather hopeful conjecture. As for the BT not up to snuff at 270 velocities, they've always been up to snuff in my 7 RM at peak velocities. Whether it's moose, deer, antelope or black bear, I've NEVER lost an animal with 150 BT out of my 7 RM. The 70 gr. 6mm BT at 3950 fps were absolutely the quickest killers of deer, antelope and coyotes I've ever seen.

Bobby B.

My grandsons took about a dozen deer over the last two years with the 95 grain Ballistic tip through my .243 WSSM at 3200 fps. They sware by that load and will not let me load anything else. If my memory serves me correctly it is 48 grains of IMR-7828 SSC with a Fed 210M primer. Good shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby B.:
From what I've witnessed, and from what logic dictates, the conclusion that a well made bullet would have anchored an ass shot deer is rather hopeful conjecture. As for the BT not up to snuff at 270 velocities, they've always been up to snuff in my 7 RM at peak velocities. Whether it's moose, deer, antelope or black bear, I've NEVER lost an animal with 150 BT out of my 7 RM. The 70 gr. 6mm BT at 3950 fps were absolutely the quickest killers of deer, antelope and coyotes I've ever seen.

Bobby B.

Not true by any stretch of the imagination. A well made bullet would have broke the animals hip and anchored him for a second shot. That's not conjecture. I've shot them from every angle imaginable and that's how it works. Bullets that blow up when they hit bone are a bad choice plain and simple. There was a time when I would have been on your side arguing the points you are trying to make, but I've seen it both way's and see no reason to use such a fragile bullet on large game now. I say they aren't up to snuff from experience, my own experience. Not anything I read out of a magazine or on the net. The plain and simple truth is these bullets blow up at high velocity when you hit bone. That's not conjecture, it's fact. I'll take penetration over expansion any day of the week when trying to kill deer sized game.

Keep using them. You'll find out for yourself one day.

Terry

Piss poor bullet placement and judgement, lets blame the bullet. Sounds like a TSX or partition fanatic to me.

Well of course I blame the bullet. Any bullet that explodes on contact with the game animal no matter where it was hit is the wrong bullet for the job at hand.

Have you ever missed a shot at a game animal?

If you answered NO, you're a liar or have no real experience to draw from or, maybe both.
If you answered YES, then who in the hell are you to judge me?

Here is a slice of reality for you. In the real world sometimes it happens to the best of us. Not very often, but sometimes you miss. Sometimes it's not a clean miss and you have to deal with what you're left with. This is when a bullet that doesn't blow up like a hand grenade comes in handy.

I said I didn't like BT's for deer hunting. I told you why I didn't like them. I was honest and told you what I did wrong (I realize this doesn't happen often.) and told why I would never use them again. I understand when everything goes right they kill like lightning, but I've also experienced the dark side of using these too and prefer not to use them anymore.

I'm not a TSX or partition fanatic. I've always' been a big fan of the Hornady interloc and Sierra game king.


It's a damn shame a man can't speak his mind and share his experiences without all the personal attacks.

Terry

TC1, the content of my message was not aimed at you as a personal attack. Don't be offended. Allow me to clarify my statement. Hitting an animal in the ass with a 'well made bullet' does not ensure contact with the bones in an animals hip. Or leg bones for that matter. Therefore, a 'well made bullet' would not neccessarily have anchored your ass shot deer.

I once experienced an event similar to your ass shot deer. I shot a whitetail buck at close range as he and a doe jumped cover and high tailed it into an open hay field. My first shot hit him in the ass breaking his leg. As you know, a deer running on three legs is nearly as fast as a deer running on four. Anway, I caught up with him in the next bush and gave him a Texas Heart Shot finisher at very close range. The bullet was the 150gr. BT out of a 7 RM at approx. 3150 fps. I doubt if a partition would have broken this deer's leg any different.

Bobby B.

Bobby,
The "bonded core" is one big, big, difference in bullets, it pretty much stopped the jacket seperation problem that plagued shooters for years...It was the one best improvement in bullets to come along in a century or two.

As to the Texas Heart shot, its a legitamate shot and very deadly indeed as it tears up more tissue than a broad side shot and still takes out the vital organs..but, you must use a caliber that will perform to the extent of fully penetrating the animal..On deer that starts with the 7x57 and 175 gr. bullets, on elk it starts with 200 gr. 30-06 but a .338 with 300 gr. Woodleighs is a lot better.

Again, the bullet construction is all important.

I have made a few bad hits and some misses. But I wouldn't take a risky shot at the back end of a game animal with a Ballistic Tip, in fact I seldom take shots like that at all. If and when I do I consider my equipment first. If I just had to have a certain deer and the shot I had to take was from behind it I would do it with a heavy Speer or Nosler Partition not a bullet designed to expand completely on an Antelopes ribs and lung tissue at extended ranges. The rifle I have for Trophy deer hunting at all ranges is a 7MM RM pushing a 140 gr. Nosler Partition at 3200 fps. The rifles loaded with Ballistic Tips are for more leisurly hunts where passing a deer is just fine. Also my Ballistic Tip experiences have been with the heaviest versions available in the caliber I am using at the time. I have found them to give penetration slightly better than Sierra Boat tails of similar weight and both of these bullets are better at behind the shoulder shots or neck hits just in front of the shoulder, if I can't make the shot I don't give in to hope I just don't shoot, simple isn't it.

No, it isn't that simple and your reading comprehension sucks. Never did I say I was aiming at the ass end of the deer. I said that's were the bullet hit. The shot was broadside and the deer was moving. I would have never pulled the trigger if I didn't think I had the shot, but sometimes things don't always' go as planned. Sometimes the animal is still hit even though you missed what you were aiming at. That's the point I tried and obviously failed to make. You assume you know things you don't. You try to make judgments about me without all the facts simply because I'm honest enough to admit some fault in what happened. I guess Internet hunters are like that.

What I stated in the post is ANY bullet that fails on impact is the wrong bullet for the job at hand as far as I'm concerned and I will no longer use them. I never made any judgments on anybody that does, nor do I think your trolling post was called for. I told you how I came to the conclusion and shared some honest experience on this board. Who in the hell are you to judge me? You weren't there and you don't know. It's a damn shame this is what these Internet forums have sunk to.

quote:

Piss poor bullet placement and judgement, lets blame the bullet. Sounds like a TSX or partition fanatic to me.

If you don't like being called a troll stop acting like one. In two sentances you questioned my shooting ability, my judgment and you called me a fanatic. Why would you even try to defend that?

Terry

Alright, I take back the fanatic part. It irritates me to hear of sloppy kills and have the bullet blamed. Not only that your first and second hits immobilized the deer enough for your forth shot to be a finisher so even if you had used a partition the result would have been the same. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

I think that this shows the limitation of applying criteria to someone elses hunting situation.

Short seasons are likely to influence shot opportunities.

The situation TC1 describes is a fairly typical Swedish hunters shot opportunity (moving deer that isn't going to stop with trees etc about and an intense desire to connect because you don't see much and the season is only really a week) They wouldn't consider anything less than a stronly constructed 140gr. In such situations a BT is absolutely not the best choice.

But if the deer had been close to home in a long season munching hay in the field and TC1 had had a good rest and the knowledge that if he felt uncomfortable he'd see a similar deer the next day for the rest of the year then it becomes a slightly different proposition where the extra accuracy is welcome and the fast opening works well in providing quick kills.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobby Tomek:
Congrats to the kiddo -- and to you for showing him the way.

So who was more elated, you or him?

And how did that 130 grain Speer perform?

Bobby, I have to be honest, very nervous first kill, son missed clean first shot, second connected but far back, (100yds or so) complete penetration, failed to make a clean head shot at about 150 yds using the 4x Nikon, but honestly not using a great rest, but then dumped the deer running at 200 yds before it jumped over a fence in thick cover, shot went thru the back quarter and rested above spine under hide, nice mushroom about 86 gr retained, must be hot core, very intact bullet.

Honestly NOT the way I wanted it, or ever hoped for, but once the first shot was taken, we were both committed to finishing the job as quickly and cleanly, and got it done. I think we were both equally happy, as a father has to be proud, and I was for him.

Yes, passing on the tradition, the key to the preservation of what we do.

One thing is for sure, my 10 yr old has had some range time-several sessions and done well, but his nerves were a wreck that day in the field as he was so excited, but he got his first at half the age I was when I took mine, so he will get there.

As to the above posts, I respect all posters experience, success or otherwise. I can state, that I used a 130gr 270 Btip on a smaller deer, had a shot through an opening about 8-10" to shoot through, it was the last of 4 coming through, no buck following so last minute the last doe took a slug, hit far back, VERY large wound contusion either side of animal, went about 50-75 yds and died very quickly, massive blood loss.

Since that one, I used a 150 gr btip, shot MUCH more accurately than the 130's. Above was 700 mountain rifle, latter used the 150's in a Ruger 1B, at slower speeds I am sure, likely using the 52/4350 load-est. 2800-2850 vs the above 3k plus.

Long story shot, far more accurate with 150's, flattened 2 deer both under 40 yds, one a spine hit, another shoulder on large buck, deer jumped 3 times, the spine-of course DRT-deer vanished so fast, me being on the ground wondered where the heck he went! IIRC, the large buck was completely penetrated shoulder to shoulder and exited, meat damage not as bad as you'd expect being 15 yds from muzzle.

SO, me, I am an advocate of 140 and 150's as I feel they shoot as well if not better than 130s in a 270 based on MY limited experience, retain energy better, if desired, and expand perhaps slower, it could be the bullet is a tougher design.

I think we all must consider the original design goals, and limitations of all bullets, nothing is perfect in penetration, and expansion from muzzle to zero velocity.

I use a 105 amax, VERY explosive bullet in my 6BR, 2850 mv, and it has been VERY deadly for me, inc. few deer, BUT I understand it cannot be used on any and all shots, so if I cannot get a broadside hit, I head shoot with this bullet. I intend to use the 95 btips some going forward, expecting them to give adequate penetration on many shots not ideal, but there will be times where I want to pass a shot on an animal regardless of what I carry short of a 338/06 225 partition, which I'd feel very apt to kill anything up to elk under 400 yds so long as I line up the vitals in the bullets path no matter point of entry. Same might apply to a Barnes or bonded bullet of same weight, but I choose to not carry that much gun with me where I do most of my deer hunting. Normally not needed if I am patient. Everyone hunts different terrain, conditions, etc. and I cannot knock anyone who chooses what they use, if they are confident with it, and shoot it well.

I think we all come here to strive to minimize what sooner or latter will unfortunately happen to many of us (game we shoot) at least once in the field, a less than perfect DRT kill, but we are all doing due diligence planning appropriately.

I hate as much as anyone wounding an animal, but if we act assertively quickly we can often have a successful outcome which is much better than if that animal is lost. In the end, having a bullet retain weight well or exit is secondary to our goal of getting that animal down asap. Shot placement is our hedge against less than perfect bullet performance, which is not always realistic in this imperfect world.

Oh, re: 70gr ballistic tip, I keep hearing that come up, those must be deadly little bullets doing much better than anyone would expect, proof is in the pudding and I cannot/will not argue with those that have used it with great success. Apparently they are tougher in construction than many might expect, and high velocity makes them wicked, a term I have come to use about my 105/6BR combo which when used as in past I expect same results again. It really helps in having a heavy gun, 8 ounce set trigger, and accuracy that puts the onus on me should I fail in where I point it during squeeze.

Good hunting and enjoy it safely. Thanks for all posters comments.

We've had good luck shooting Balistic Tips on deer and elk over the years using .270's and .300 Win Mags in 130g and 180g. No blow ups only dead flops with some hits being less than ideal. My experience is that the Ballistic Tip is a fantastic bullet for Big game and could be my experience is different than yours.