I have a 1:14 barrel on my 22-250 and know that means I am limited to max of about 65gn bullets.

I shoot alot of 52 and 53gn jacketed sierra and really notice no difference in performance of FB vs. boat tails at 100 and 200yds. Is there something i am missing here? what is the perceived advantage of one vs. the other?

quote:

Originally posted by rje:
I shoot alot of 52 and 53gn jacketed sierra and really notice no difference in performance of FB vs. boat tails at 100 and 200yds. Is there something i am missing here? what is the perceived advantage of one vs. the other?

The advantages of boat tails don't show up until 300 yards and beyond....I've not found them to be of much advantage at all and most shooters will claim the FB bullets are slightly more accurate.....I can't confirm that either.

IMO you're missing nothing here.

quote:

I have a 1:14 barrel on my 22-250 and know that means I am limited to max of about 65gn bullets.

The 70gr Speer semi-point was made for such rifles.

I have found it more difficult to stabilize boat tails in my hornet with 1-in-16 twist (55gr). The 1-in-16 twist stabilizes the 60gr Hornady SP just fine - that at lower velocity. From what I have heard on these forums, the boat tail bullet takes longer to stabilize in flight so can be less accurate at closer ranges. My very limited observations seems to support this (with the emphasis beeing on 'limited' and 'seems') and in only one rifle with inadequate twist rate.

vapodog and 303guy....thanks...
the responses leads to a question.

If BT bullets atabilize best at long ranges 200+ yards then isn't 52gn just too light a bullet to get there effectively as it is more subject to wind effects than the heavier 70gn bullets?.

Or is getting it out there at top speeds more than enough to counteract the wind?

More than one World-Class Benchrest shooter uses BT bullets in point blank BR (100-200-300 yards) which pretty much shoots down the old theory about them being less accurate at short distances.

OTOH, more than one World-Class Benchrest shooter is using flat base bullets at the mid and long distance BR (600 & 1000 yards) which shoots down the opposite theory.

Can it be that there is more to this accuracy thing than we know??

Ray

quote:

If BT bullets atabilize best at long ranges 200+ yards then isn't 52gn just too light a bullet to get there effectively as it is more subject to wind effects than the heavier 70gn bullets?

I don't believe BT bullets stabilize better.....they just experience less loss of velocity and hence somewhat less drop at longer ranges.

In my .243 Superrockchucker I shot the 70 grain TNT and the 70 grain Nosler BT with th same charge and the Boat tailed ballistic tip arrived 400 yards away about 6" higher than the TNT.....but it never killer more prairie dogs for me.....accuracy was about the same and I still had to judge distance and holdover.

In all seriousness.....the advantage in boat tailed bullets may in fact be emotional.....the shooter looks at them and feels good just looking at them!

Sam Fadala and Steve Hornady once had an interesting conversation as to why Hornady was not (then) producing a 175 gr. 7 m/m boattail bullet.

Steve responded that it was because they wanted to keep the best ballistics out to 500 yards. He said their tests showed that they would have to keep bullet dimension to a certain length to fit the twists of available rifles then on the market in 7 m/m.

And, to keep that length they would have to lose more flight advantage from changing nose shape than they would pick up from changing the base shape to a boattail. So, to make the best compromise, they kept their existing nose-shape and did not produce 7 m/m boattails at the 175 gr. weight..

I don't know if he still thinks that way, but at one time he surely did.

BTW, Steve also agreed with Vapo on stability. In his opinion, boattail bullets in the then current dominant twists of various calibers often did not receive sufficient spin to fully stabilize...at least not the heavier weights where flat-based bullets still stabilized beautifully and regularly.

Again this was because putting a boattail base on the bullet and keeping the same weight requires making a significantly longer bullet. And longer bullets require quicker twists to fully stabilize at any given velocity.

I have bound that in SOME GUNS the shorter bullets with boattails have less bearing surface and may not stabilize as well as a flatbase bullet which has more bearing surface.

As I see it,the main advantage to boattail bullets is to reduce drag and thus increase downrange velocity and thus flatten the trajectory a little.

I've been doing a whole lot of testing of 22 bullets over the last two years. We only have a range here that goes to 100 yards, so I'm limited to groups shot at this distance for my comments. My conclusion is that it depends on the rifle and load as to which is most accurate.
I have about every 22 centerfire chambering available, short many wildcats; all the way from a pair of 22 Hornets, to a 218 Bee, two 222 Rem's, two 222 Rem mags, three 223's, a 22 BR and a 22-250. Some rifles shoot flat based bullets best, and some shoot boat tails best, for 100 yard accuracy.
The interesting thing I've found is Speer bullets. Prior to about two years ago, I was a Sierra fan, mainly 52's, 53's and their great 55 HPBT. But, I have found that the Speer 50 grain TNT, the 52 grain HP Flat Base, and the Speer 52 grain HPBT outshoot Sierra's in some rifles, not all.
The same is true in some 25 caliber rifles I have shooting the 87 grain Speer TNT's. The Sierra 90 grain HPBT is always accurate in some rifles.
I really like the design of the TNT bullet.

Don

Well, I only considered trying the Sierra 55gr BT because it is the same length as the Hornady 60gr SP which does work in my rifle. I did get the BT to work but it likes too hot a load and does not match the Hornady 55gr SP - but then I am talking extreme marginal twist rate! The Nosler 55gr BT which is not available anymore seemed to work well but that had a very short 'boat tail'. (They don't call that design boat tail anymore).

quote:

Originally posted by DMB:
I've been doing a whole lot of testing of 22 bullets over the last two years. We only have a range here that goes to 100 yards, so I'm limited to groups shot at this distance for my comments. My conclusion is that it depends on the rifle and load as to which is most accurate.
I have about every 22 centerfire chambering available, short many wildcats; all the way from a pair of 22 Hornets, to a 218 Bee, two 222 Rem's, two 222 Rem mags, three 223's, a 22 BR and a 22-250. Some rifles shoot flat based bullets best, and some shoot boat tails best, for 100 yard accuracy.
The interesting thing I've found is Speer bullets. Prior to about two years ago, I was a Sierra fan, mainly 52's, 53's and their great 55 HPBT. But, I have found that the Speer 50 grain TNT, the 52 grain HP Flat Base, and the Speer 52 grain HPBT outshoot Sierra's in some rifles, not all.
The same is true in some 25 caliber rifles I have shooting the 87 grain Speer TNT's. The Sierra 90 grain HPBT is always accurate in some rifles.
I really like the design of the TNT bullet.

Don

Don- Most factory sporters built for hunting have a bit quicker twist rate than would be possibly "ideal" with the lighter bullets for the caliber. That way the gun factories don't have to worry about handloaders not being able to get their heavier bullets to stabilize well too.

Your observations about FB vs. BT accuracy depending on the rifle are, I think, quite well based. I have found the same thing. Sierra 85 gr. HPBTs have been VERY accurate in several of my 6 m/m Remingtons, for instance.

I likewise find several of the Speer offerings to be very accurate in certain rifles. I use Speer 50 gr. TNT bullets in my .223 Micro-Medallion for 500 yard+ prairie dogging in Montana with good success. Likewise I have had good success with the 87 gr. .25s...the ones with the HUGE HP (can't recall their name offhand). They used to make a 52 gr. .224 match bullet with the word "Silver" in the name, which was outstanding...maybe they still do, I don't know.

You know, at one time in the early days of BR competition, Speers used to win the overall championship at the Nationals some years.

Sierra mostly made its reputation in high-power shooting at both states' and national championships, so both have excellent accuracy backgrounds.

The secret though to picking a BT or FB bullet for best acuracy, is to use the "fun" method. Shoot them both and see what works. I think that's what you do, isn't it?

quote:

The secret though to picking a BT or FB bullet for best acuracy, is to use the "fun" method. Shoot them both and see what works. I think that's what you do, isn't it?

I like your thinking!

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:

quote:

The secret though to picking a BT or FB bullet for best acuracy, is to use the "fun" method. Shoot them both and see what works. I think that's what you do, isn't it?

I like your thinking!

Alberta,

Right on!!!

Don

BT less wind drift at longer range. It's easy to figure drop, less so with drift.

quote:

Originally posted by Moorepower:
BT less wind drift at longer range. It's easy to figure drop, less so with drift.

Calculating both trajectory (drop) and wind deflection (drift) is simple physics. The hard part is in calculating the V and direction of the wind.

Ray

quote:

The hard part is in calculating the V and direction of the wind.

Yeah! I am a complete novice at wind doping. I have had it when there was no indication of wind at all when shooting across a gully! A minute or so after the shot was fired (which went to the side), and the wind reached the hillside I was on.

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:

quote:

The hard part is in calculating the V and direction of the wind.

Yeah! I am a complete novice at wind doping.

I'm 74 and will always be a novice at doping wind. I've worked hard at learning, but actually seeing the wind present when shooting at an animal is tough duty for me; like the wind in the gully you mention. Occasionally, I get lucky and read it right. But, most times I don't.

Don

I am a "dope" at doping wind.

This reminds me of a chinese/australian sniper at Gallipoli. As a hunter he aparently always knew the wind, not just waiting for game to appear first. This would include comming changes in grass and trees I guess.

I'm usually looking for snakes.

Come to think of it, I'm not very good at estimating range either!

quote:

Originally posted by Red C.:
I have bound that in SOME GUNS the shorter bullets with boattails have less bearing surface and may not stabilize as well as a flatbase bullet which has more bearing surface.

As I see it,the main advantage to boattail bullets is to reduce drag and thus increase downrange velocity and thus flatten the trajectory a little.

I don't know if this is why, but I have found FB bullets more accurate out to 300 yards or so in my 6mm Rem. Especially with a slight crimp on the case.
The flat base bullets are far more accurate in two rifles (6mm and a 30-'06) than the boattails are out to 200 yards or so. After that it seems to even out somewhat.

Tried same wt BTs from Sierra, Speer and Hornady in the 6mm, pretty much all the same.
Sierras a little more accurate.