Took my recently bedded Stevens 200 to the range today with 25 rounds of 63gr Win bulk soft point over 25grs of Varget and a CCI BR primer. Bullets were seated out to the same point as the 70 and 80gr Nosler Comps that shot pretty well.

The result was awful. Groups were three times bigger than previously and much more erratic.

I am totally stumped; however, before I do anything more, I am going to try those Nosler comp bullets with Varget and 4895.

By the way, you can slip a piece of paper under the tang. The trigger guard screw is tightened only enough to keep in tight and the forward mounting action screw is tightened down. There is space at the bottom of the recoil lug and in front of it.

If you have any suggestions please let me hear from you. Kudude.

I am going through my first bedding-a Savage 110. Hope it turns out well...maybe we will be problem solving together. Do you have any pics?

Tyler,
No, but I'll post some when I get a chance. Kudude

What areas did you bed?

quote:

Originally posted by kudude:
Took my recently bedded Stevens 200 to the range today with 25 rounds of 63gr Win bulk soft point over 25grs of Varget and a CCI BR primer. Bullets were seated out to the same point as the 70 and 80gr Nosler Comps that shot pretty well.

The result was awful. Groups were three times bigger than previously and much more erratic.

I am totally stumped; however, before I do anything more, I am going to try those Nosler comp bullets with Varget and 4895.

By the way, you can slip a piece of paper under the tang. The trigger guard screw is tightened only enough to keep in tight and the forward mounting action screw is tightened down. There is space at the bottom of the recoil lug and in front of it.

If you have any suggestions please let me hear from you. Kudude.

Is the stock the plastic one that (in its original form) is a little "light for the application" so to speak?

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by pdhntr1:

quote:

Originally posted by kudude:
Took my recently bedded Stevens 200 to the range today with 25 rounds of 63gr Win bulk soft point over 25grs of Varget and a CCI BR primer. Bullets were seated out to the same point as the 70 and 80gr Nosler Comps that shot pretty well.

The result was awful. Groups were three times bigger than previously and much more erratic.

I am totally stumped; however, before I do anything more, I am going to try those Nosler comp bullets with Varget and 4895.

By the way, you can slip a piece of paper under the tang. The trigger guard screw is tightened only enough to keep in tight and the forward mounting action screw is tightened down. There is space at the bottom of the recoil lug and in front of it.

If you have any suggestions please let me hear from you. Kudude.

Is the stock the plastic one that (in its original form) is a little "light for the application" so to speak?

Jim

Oops, maybe I didn't read this right. Are you comparing the same loads or different. If different, you have to use the same load you used to establish the accuracy benchmark.

Any change in the load used before bedding could be the reason and not your work. You have two variables. You can only test one.

I have had some issues with the Savage plastic stocks. It may or may not be the reason though.

Jim

I bedded the area of the recoil lug forward about three and a half inches.

Yes, the stock is "stock" plastic. I first firmed up the stock as described here by putting a metal brace in the mag well. With the bedding, it isn't as light (I liked the light), but it is more "firm."

PDhunter,
You are absolutely right; I did screw up and introduce two variables at the same time; however, I had had pretty good luck with the 63gr Win load in other rifles and had shot it in this rifle to zero it and it appeared reasonably accurate.

After my bedding, the groups were absolutely awful-I was patterning it! Kudude

quote:

Originally posted by kudude:
I bedded the area of the recoil lug forward about three and a half inches.

Yes, the stock is "stock" plastic. I first firmed up the stock as described here by putting a metal brace in the mag well. With the bedding, it isn't as light (I liked the light), but it is more "firm."

PDhunter,
You are absolutely right; I did screw up and introduce two variables at the same time; however, I had had pretty good luck with the 63gr Win load in other rifles and had shot it in this rifle to zero it and it appeared reasonably accurate.

After my bedding, the groups were absolutely awful-I was patterning it! Kudude

Well, don't fret yet. There is an answer to your problem, but let me tell you what happened to me, and then you can decide what you want to do.

My brother got a 22-250 FV with the same stock as you have I believe. He delivered the gun to me unfired and I started breaking it in. This was the first Savage I worked on with the plastic stock. I had a lot of experience with wood stocks but none with plastic. I used a load that was proven in several 250s and the groups were within MOA but not what I was looking for.

I thought a little weight in the stock would help so I took the recoil pad off and pulled the foam out of the butt stock and poured in the lead shot. Screwed the pad back on and shot it. It was horrible. Like you said, it patterned, not grouped. I saved the targets because I couldn't believe how bad I screwed it up. Simply weighting the butt stock totally screwed the accuracy. I took out the lead and the gun immediately went back to its original accuracy.

The bad news for you is I quit trying to figure out the plastic stock at that point. I put it in a wood stock and the accuracy has been incredible since then.

Probably not what you wanted to here, but thats my story. If you figure it out, let us know.

Jim

Thanks, PD, I am going to "dress" the existing bedding and see if that helps, and, if it doesn't, I am going to fully bed the barrel. If that doesn't work, I'll be back to you about a source of stocks for Steven 200's. Kudude

quote:

Originally posted by kudude:
Thanks, PD, I am going to "dress" the existing bedding and see if that helps, and, if it doesn't, I am going to fully bed the barrel. If that doesn't work, I'll be back to you about a source of stocks for Steven 200's. Kudude

Jim

Do not full length bed tupperware! Did you drill holes around the bedding for the material to seep through to get a good mechanical bond. I just did the recoil lug and two inches or so behind and just a little back on the rear pillar. The gun needs no more. A trigger really helps. Also I assume you are cleaning frequently. The stevens bores are a little rough and pick up fouling fast. Also as was said before, all guns do not like all bullets.

Morepower,

I think that the bond is good. The bedding goes about twice as far as you did your's. I put no bedding material around the rear screw. I tightened the front screw down all the way, and then just snugged the back screw in. You can slip paper under the tang and you can slip a dollar under the barrel to the bedded area. I'll try bringing it back some more before I give up.

Why not bed all the way forward??

Kudude

Did you bed the area around the front screw? Some of the Savage pillars will come loose in the plastic, I bedded my M10FP at both pillars and the lug, with none forward of the lug. Shoots lights out.

What is the twist of the barrel?

The Savage/Stevens twist is 1:9.

I did not bed the area around the front pilar because (1) the pillar seems to be well fixed and (2) it would be difficult to remove material around the pillar. Kudude

After bore-sighting my Savage is shooting minute of water bottle at about 10 yards.

Loaded up a couple quick rounds just to see what it was like. 105 grain Amaxes explode water bottles quite nicely.

My second attempt at bedding looks better, hopefully it shoots good, I should find out next weekend.

Kudude,
I had to read your post a couple time to understand it. You are shooting a Stevens 200 as I understand. Shot good with a certain grain bullet but not so good with a lighter bullet loaded the same way. I see a couple of different variables here. The 70 to 80's were shooting OK, then you went to a 63 gr bullet. This could be where your problem is. Do you roll your own? If so you will need to work up a load that the riflr like with that bullet. I'm sure that bedding the stock doesn't hurt anything, but rifles can be very picky about what you feed them. Kind of like finding out what a toddler likes and what he doesn't like.
Work up some loads in the 63gr bullet of your favorite powder and primer combo and see what happens. I may be way off base or right on the money.

All of my rifles I reload for don't like the same anything when I change a component or two.

This is just a thought and hope it helps you out.

You may have to go to a completely differenet powder ot primer or seating depth. Remember, all bullets have a different ogive on them and this will change things dramatically as far as oal and pressures and what not. Any way, these are just MY findings.

Good Luck and Straight Shooting,

Tony

The reason not to bed ahead of the lug is that the stock bends when you breath on it. I have a 200 and love it, but my stock is flexable.

Tony,

No, the 64gr Win bullet did not shoot well. Nothing has shot really well in this rifle. I have gotten consistently with all loads two groups in five shots.

I reload for many rifles, have changed scopes, checked the mounts, and it won't shoot which is why I considered bedding and making the stock less flexible. My efforts did not work. I had to rip (grind) all the bedding out today.

I will try a little accuglass behind the recoil lug, and after that, if it does not work, a new stock. If that does not work-good bye little Stevens! Kudude

I hope this may be of some help.I think "morepower" could be on the money.I would remove the bedding forward of the lug area to within 40 odd mm.Now i don't want to sound derogatory in any way but a paper bill is a lousy way to guage barrel/channel space especially on a not too ridged plastic stock.I like the idea of plastic stocks on utillity firearms but you really need to rout that chanel out.I have a zastava mini in 222.Exactly the same problem, really bad stock deflection especialy with a bipod. Now have 3mm clearance and boy has that baby put some bunnies in the bag.Good shooting.

I would use something to remove the excess plastic material in the area of the front and rear pillars that prevented the action from sitting on the pillars, then properly bed the action so it sits directly on top of the pillars. A small gouge and a chisel works well for cutting the plastic out.

I could not tell from your posts, is the lug bedded?

I would make sure the tang does not contact the stock by removing material from the stock under the tang area. A business card works well to gauge the clearance.

Then I would get a steel trigger guard, and properly torque the front and rear action screws. The plastic trigger guards compress when the proper torque is applied.

I would not do anything about the bedding in front of the lug yet, nor would I increase the clearance between the barrel and the stock's barrel channel.

There is no reason this rifle should not be capable of sub-moa accuracy given the right load, and of course the proper shooting technique

Morepower and Smokey,

I think that I agree with you, but I am confused, which may be because I confused you.

First, there is no contact at this point in the barrel channel. Nada.

Second, I took all the bedding out because a) it wasn't making any difference and b) I had questions about its bond to the stock.

Morepower, you say you bedded behind the lug. On my plastic stock the area directly behind the lug is a plastic block with the forward bedding pillar. Behind that is the large opening where the magazine box sits. Where did you put the bedding and what preparations did you make prior to bedding??

Smokey: Is the removal of the material around the pillars for the purpose of re-bedding the action with direct contact with the pillars?? Or, do you remove it, and let the action "float?"

I have plenty of space under my tang. that is not an issue although it might if we remove the material you are referring to.

You mention torquing the action down. Once it is in solid contact with the pillars, can one torque it down?? How many pounds??

Where does one get a metal trigger guard??

To all: I am thinking about getting a Timney trigger and installing it. Sounds like a good deal.

Again, thanks to all of you. kudude

If the next job doesn't work, don't sell it!

You can always get another barrel and another stock, and a good trigger, and have a semi-custom rig.

I like Joel Russo's stocks, shilen pre-fit barrels get lots of good reviews, and at accuracyarms.com (maybe .net) they are really priced well.

I make sure that the action is sitting on the actual pillars when I bed an action. I use a variety of tools to remove the plastic material at the front, rear, lug, sides, and tang areas until I get the action where I want it. Do the same on the complete length of the action until it sits where you want it.

The action floats on the pillars

I like the bedding material to be around 3/16 inches thick or maybe a little thicker. I have used Devcon Plastic Steel epoxy and JB Weld and both work well.

To have the bedding material this thick means removing a lot of plastic, partially depending on how far the top of the pillars is below the plastic.

Metal trigger guards are available from Brownells, Midway, and other sources

When the action sits on the pillars, is bedded, and using a metal trigger guard I torque the screws to somewhere between 40 and 55 inch pounds. Usually the front gets torqued with about 10 to 15 inch pounds more torque

Take a look at this website. It shows how-to very well

6mm BR bedding info

I have Weatherby Vanguard 300 Weatherby that had a marvelous factory target group but shot patterns for me. I took it out of the factory tupperware stock and put it in a Bell and Carlson. Instant 3/4" groups.

So I finally shot my 6mm Ackley today after my bedding job. Bore sighted it, have shot a couple shots cleaning in between each load before today.

Settle in, put the crosshairs dead center on the target...nothing. Figure it just must be a fouler, shoot again...nothing. I went a put up 9 sheets of paper, essentially giving me a big target, and then shoot again. Shot is waaaay low. I notice I'm out of adjustment, and still about a foot and a half low. I go to clean, and spill my Montana X-Treme everywhere, which adds to insult and gets my gloves and everything else nearby smelling ammonia-ey. So I shot a couple more times, getting a 3/4" group, which I figure is fine for a barrel having less than 20 rounds through it, and shooting a group from a clean barrel. I'm about to figure out the scope problem now, it looks fine bore sighted, but still shooting really, really low.

I bet your action is warped and the rear base is too low

I just put in an extra 10 moa of elevation in it with Burris rings. Per the bore sighter I can just get it sighted in at 100 now, but it takes every last bit of adjustment..

I will go by the gun store Monday I guess and get the +20, -20 inserts. With those I should be able to get where I want, about 5 inches high at 100 with all my elevation left.

Check the crown also i've seen where sloppy crowning could make a gun shoot off by feet if it is cut deeper on top it would make it shoot low.One time i was recrowning a 22lr and on purpose i did it deeper on the top just to see what would happen and at 25yards i hit a foot and a half low!

Well, I got it right...not sure what was wrong with the rings, took them off and remounted and all is well.

At 100 yards I'm shooting just under an inch, and out to 600 it shoots very well. I shot at a 12x6 plate at 600 twice, and the bullet craters nearly touched, I was impressed. JBM ballistics was dead on when I calculated 3100 fps with a 105 Amax. I used 48 grains IMR 7828.

Kudude, I know sometimes you just want to fix things yourself but if your patience runs out you can give this stock a try.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?s...id=913677&t=11082005