hello all,

i have been using in my 6.5x55 130grn barnes xxx bullets and have been having alot of trouble with, what all i can say is not working on the animals.all where heart and lung area shots ,i shot a red stag yesterday and it ran around 10 yards fell in a stream thrashed about with legs up and i thought well that is it but it got back up and walked about 20 yards and stood there so shot it again and it just sat down and died.
on inspection it had been shot just in front of the heart and through the lungs but i dont think the bullet had expanded.

any help or ideas welcome.

thanks
chris

I don't have as much experience as some guys on the Barnes bullets but I do have some, I think it helps to drop down in bullet weight and that helps with the expansion or boost the velocity of your current bullet weight. (sometimes easier to just move down to 120 grain bullets). You may not be driving them fast enough to reliably expand them. I have not experienced a situation yet where you can drive a Barnes X too fast, they seem to hold together really well. My brother is shooting 110 grain Barnes tipped triple shocks in his .270 WSM at about 3500 FPS and has experienced several one shot kills on Antelope and Mule Deer this year.
I would drop down to 120 grain Barnes in your 6.5 and push them pretty hard and I'll bet your results change.

+1

the homogeneous bullets all seem to prefer higher velocities to expand well. When he was a few years younger i took my son to zim & he used a 375 with the 215 gr x bullets. at that velocity they killed like lightning

I don't really have a Dog in this Fight since I only shoot .284" 120 gr. Barnes TSX's in the 7x57R - and I'm seriously scratching my head as to whether these premium bullets aren't too much of a good thing for the cartridge in question, too.

In this cartridge I've already done some preliminary testing (which is actual hunting) with 140 gr. Hornady Interbonds and they appear to me to perform better (subjective; well, maybe - but the animals expired quicker).

I loaded 60 .300 Win. Mag. cartridges with 180 gr. Barnes TSX's and another 20 150 gr. Swift Sciroccos (after load development) for my hunting Buddy to take on a recent Namibia hunt. Results; heavy game although apparently little bullet expansion w/much "pencilling" = inadequate expansion (I know, I was hunting with him) requiring multiple shots at animals. Without my urging he decided when he returned that the Swift bullets were gonna be his load vice the Barnes - fair enough.

As for European game, I find regular Cup & Core brand name bullets perform as effectively, if not equal to or better than Barnes.

Not a Branes basher at all - they are excellent bullets but certainly not for every application.

Also I'd prefer to consider myself relatively unbiased to which bullet is used for which cartridge/application since I'm loading for a broad spectrum of cartridges with pretty much every brand name bullet for 27 different cartridges.

thanks to your replys but i am not going to use the barnes xxx anymore as i have only 5 rounds left i will use them on clean barrel.what i am going to use now which i have used the factory loaded round is the lapua 155 grn mega which i had very good results with.

I have used them in the 35whelen,7x57,22 caland 25cal.The 35 and 7mm work like they say they are supposed to,that said I have quit useing them in my 25calibers.I haven't made up my mind yet on the 22s yet.The 25s just go in and out.Game shows no sign of getting hit,they just run off.I sent barnes a e-mail about this and they told me that they were expanding like they were supposed to.I called BS on that.They told me to get some phone books wet them and shoot them.I told them that when I go hunting phone books I would.So when my stash of their bullets are shot up I really don't think I will get any more.Just my exp.Good Luck

quote:

Originally posted by plainsman456:
I have used them in the 35whelen,7x57,22 caland 25cal.The 35 and 7mm work like they say they are supposed to,that said I have quit useing them in my 25calibers.I haven't made up my mind yet on the 22s yet.The 25s just go in and out.Game shows no sign of getting hit,they just run off.I sent barnes a e-mail about this and they told me that they were expanding like they were supposed to.I called BS on that.They told me to get some phone books wet them and shoot them.I told them that when I go hunting phone books I would.So when my stash of their bullets are shot up I really don't think I will get any more.Just my exp.Good Luck

If the game "just run off" how do you know what the bullet did???? What is your test sample???


Deer308
How far was the animal. It sounds like you recovered it, what was the wound channel like? If it just stood there after being heart/lung shot chances are it was getting ready to fall. Most non fatal wounds result is serious flight. How many animals does this make that there is apparent bullet failure?
Your results do not sound like typical TSX reports, is why I ask.

Perry

hi perry,

the exit wound was minimal and internally there was a small amount of damage but when i have taken out clients for the red stags i watch every shot taken through binoculars to watch shot placement and shot reaction on each animal and with the barnes it is very hard to see the placement.all i can think is what is happening is they are not expanding and what i have noticed is it is very hard to find any blood trail or hair around where the animal has been shot.so what i have done is i have changed the barrel on my sauer 202 to my spare 7x64 with different ammo rws round nose 150grn and will be out wednesday and thursday to see the difference.

regards
chris

I think there are several folks on this forum who have used the smaller than .308 cal TSX and had problems with expansion or lack thereof. I am a huge fan of them but have used them only in .308 and larger and have had excellent performance. You definitely want at least 2200 fps to insure reliable expansion.

An expanded TSX through the lungs leaves damage like a boat propellor passing through. I.e the lungs will be pureed. If on a lung shot, the lungs don't mostly pour out, then the bullet did not expand.

I did shoot a deer a little too high and far back once. The bullet expanded properly just over the very back edge of the lungs. The deer ran 100 yards like nothing had happened and just stood there. I almost shot it again thinking I had missed when the head started to wobble just a bit and then it collapsed into a heap.

LWD

I shot 2 deer and 1 hog with the barnesXXX and they didn't flinch,didn't drop,didn't leave any blood.
After searching for 4 hours for the first deer and the hog and 2 for the last deer and not finding them, what would you think happened.
I just got back from hunting and I shot an 8pt in the same place that i shot the first deer.The difference this time is he is in my ice chest.He was shot with the same load of RL-19, but thie a nosler accubond.

They ain't no Sierra GameKings or Pro-Hunters!! A lot of hype and they can deliver less than stellar accuracy also!! The old fashioned "cup and core" bullets from Sierra do what they were sold as doing and do it much more economically than the Barnes!! Just my 2 cents worth. Speer and even Remington Core-Locts or even Winchester PSP's do the deal on deer with aplomb. GHD

Thank You GHD.Good LUck

hi all,

i am pleased that i asked this question on barnes because i am not the only one with the same results as above.i think it is all well barnes showing the video of what the bullet does but maybe they should listen to the people with the true field reports and see if there is a problem with the smaller calibers,i would inform barnes but it probally not recieve a answer because with been from the uk maybe some of you men should give it ago.the one thing i do find a bit worrying is the number of the same reports as i found above , how many animals have been lost and wounded .i have never had this problem with any other make of bullets i have used in 26 years so whey with these barnes ???

regards

chris

quote:

Originally posted by plainsman456:
I shot 2 deer and 1 hog with the barnesXXX and they didn't flinch,didn't drop,didn't leave any blood.
After searching for 4 hours for the first deer and the hog and 2 for the last deer and not finding them, what would you think happened.
I just got back from hunting and I shot an 8pt in the same place that i shot the first deer.The difference this time is he is in my ice chest.He was shot with the same load of RL-19, but thie a nosler accubond.

You final hit one in the right place . Unless you hit them with a 22lr you will find hair, blood, or bone. (3) PERFECT hits and no dead animal DOES NOT ADD UP! I have shot game with fmj's out of 5.56, heart/lung, and found them dead with in a couple hundred yards. If you cant find your animals that took a bullet, any bullet, PERFECTLY through the vitals that's operator error!

The HUGE HOLE in your "theory" about why the TSX doesn't work is that you have NO IDEA where you actually hit the animals. Your argument, from a truly factual stand point, is COMPLETELY irrelevant.

Perry

Deer308 I am not a fan of the xxx bullet on deer sized game either. I used a 120g 7mm xxx with an impact velocity of about 3200fps on a Whitetail doe and found it it....

#1 Did not give an audible "hit" that I could hear, at fist I guessed it was due to the short range and high veloicty. Later that year I witnessed a fellow shoot 2 a deer with a 168 xxx out of a 3006. Again no audible sound on either hit.

#2 There was no reaction to the hit. The deer I shot did not show any signs of being hit, no stumble, nothing.

#3 The wound was quite small. I cleaned the lungs off with water to get a good look at the wound. The lungs looked like somthing you would see from a 2 balde broad head or a very low velocity hit from a rifle bullet, like a 30-30 at 200+ yards. A small 3" tapering down to 2" "cut" through the tissue. No material removed or blood shot. The in and out holes in the rib cage looked good (normal) The 2 deer that I witnessed shot with the 168g also had small wounds in the lungs.



So, I decided if I need super penetration for some reason then yes I can live with the down side of the xxx. Penetration will almost certainly come at a price with any bullet, that price is wound diameter. Thats fine I am cool with that.

But

I can already penetrate 2/3 of a deer with a Hornady 162g interlock AND have a big wound channel, audible hits and visual indicators of a hit. So why live with bow and arrow/ long range 30-30 type preformance when I can have every thing.



High SD standard bullets at resonably fast impact velocitys give me the type resuts I am looking for. So I have been mostly sticking with it since...

perry I guess the only evidence I have is that every other animal that I have shot with this rifle has died.They haven't run ,walked or vanished.They was dead.So I use barnes xxx and I can't hit s%*t,but chance to nosler,rem,win,speer or seirra bullets I do a good job with bullet placement.MMMM.I guess that just leaves more of them for someone else to shoot.Good Luck

hello all,

i am pleased we have sorted this one out and i for one will never be using the barnes all singing and dancing xxx again .

best regards

chris

In my opinion thin skinned deer sized game do not warrant the use of a heavily constructed premium bullet such as the Barnes or bonded bullets. My experience with the Barnes bullets is limited to a single Antelope so I really can't say they are good nor bad. I shot the Antelope at 220yds + or - a few yards. I hit him broadside and had a complete pass through of the animal. It took out both lungs and heart. He didn't move more than a step or two so I consider the bullet successfully did it's job. This was the XLC bullet which was pre TSX. Now I would think on heavier game such as Elk, Moose, Bear or even wild boar the Barnes would have better performance. And like one of the previous posters has stated Barnes states that their bullets need to be above 2000fps to reliably expand.

First of all, I will say that the TSXs in .30 caliber and above seem to be much more consistent in performance than the smaller-bore offerings. And also, like Perry said, if you don't recover the animal and have nothing else to go by, it's impossible to say what actually happened.

I've used Barnes bullets quite a bit and still have mixed feelings about them. In the 90s, I had a run of terrific performance with the 85 grain X in a .250 Savage XP. Then I ran into a lot that absolutely refused to expand.

More recently, I've used the 7mm TSX and TTSX with good results -- not to mention incredible accuracy -- until, once again, I guess I hit a bad lot of the TSXs.

A hog punched through the vitals with a 120 grain TSX made around 400 yards before I found the sow -- very weakened but still very much alive -- and ended the ordeal with a bullet into the neck. The recovered bullet had nothing more than a small dimple in the nose. It had clipped the top of the heart on a frontal presentation and wound up, if memory serves, in the left flank. Granted, the hog would have been out for good in another minute or so, but that's not the type of terminal performance I want from my hunting cartridges. (I'll add a photo of this particular bullet later)

The TTSX was actually introduced to address long range/lower velocity expansion problems of the TSX, but Barnes now notes that the TTSX actually requires a HIGHER minimum velocity (2000 fps) to expand than does the older TSX (1800 fps).

At least Barnes no longer claims full depth-of-cavity expansion down to 1600 fps, something I never experienced in either the field or under controlled testing.

While I don't tout them as the best thing since sliced bread, I also won't condemn them, either. I simply state the facts. I still have quite a few loaded up for my 7mm Bullberry using a lot with proven expansion and may use them to fill my second whitetail tag. And the 80 grain TTSX in my son's 25x30-30 has done nothing but give textbook expansion so far.

My experience with the Barnes has run the gamut and ranged from excellent low velocity expansion on a 35 pound coyote to a complete lack of expansion on a rather heavily contructed animal (hog).

That type of Jeckel and Hyde performance tends to polarize hunters and cause heated debates.

And if nothing else, it provides excellent fodder for campfire discussions...

I have had one failure from a high velocity (3150 fps) 270 caliber 140 gr TSX and a friend had a couple. Usually I restrict the TSX to 308 caliber or larger. IMO the hollow point in the smaller calibers along with the high velocity leads to failure to open sometimes. Also note the detritus in the hollow point

338, 308, 284, 277, 264


Now the TTSX has a larger hole behind the tip


and if I were going to use the Barnes bullets in small fast calibers I would opt for the TTSX.

Either the TSX or the TTSX's have been accurate in all my rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by deer308:
i for one will never be using the barnes all singing and dancing xxx again . ...

Best post in the entire thread.

I don't need any Stinkin' Politically Correct Bullets.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills - with good old Lead and Lead Core Bullets.

Before I start my rant, I just want to say that I use TSX's, as well as traditional cup and core and bonded bullets in my hunting rifles. It depends on what and where I'm hunting and how much velocity I'm pushing.

If you shoot enough game, eventually your going to have a bullet do something differently than you would have liked.

In my opinion, if the animal dies and you recover it, the bullet didn't fail. It may not have performed to your liking, but it's not a "failure." If the bullet is capable of punching a hole through the lungs, the animal is going to die. The only way a bullet can fail is if it can't penetrate that depth within the animal.

Homogeneous bullets like the TSX will either expand or punch straight through. In the worst case scenario, you have a bullet that will penetrate the vitals and leave two holes for the blood to drain out. It may not kill as quickly as a lead core bullet, but it will eventually kill the animal. I've never heard of a homogeneous solid fragmenting on an animal and failing to penetrate.

Cup and core and even bonded bullets like the accubond, interbond, scirooco, etc., will either expand the way you want them to, over-expand or fragment on impact. Usually, they will perform exactly as you want them to. But, in the worst case scenario, they can fail to penetrate the vitals. While you may get a faster kill 99.9% of the time, there's always a chance that you only inflict a flesh wound, even with a correctly placed shot.

Blaming a lost animal on the bullet is usually an excuse for poor shooting or poor tracking ability. It's not what you hit them with, it's where you hit them. For what it's worth, if I had to choose a bullet to make a bad (gut) shot with, I'd pick a cup and core, as it's going to do a lot more damage. A homogeneous solid through the vitals will always kill.

Pete

After I hit the post button, I thought about what I just wrote and realized that I should be shooting more Nosler Partitions!

Pete

talentrec wrote:

quote:

After I hit the post button, I thought about what I just wrote and realized that I should be shooting more Nosler Partitions!

The Partitions are still, in my experience, the most infallible thing to come out of a barrel to date. No, they aren't always necessary, but their vaunted performance can certainly bolster one's confidence when pulling the trigger.

With that being said, most of my hunting is done with standard cup-and-core bullets. They perform exceedingly well in the moderate-velocity rounds I employ them in.

hello all,

went out yesterday with the 6.5x55 loaded with lapua mega`s and the client shot two reds and all worked as a bullet should this has now learnt me a lesson .

regards
chris

Son used 150 TSX's out of his 30 06 this Sept for moose. He took a broadside shot about 100 yards away and hit the bull but it didnt drop but moved postions. He shot it again and it dropped but wasnt dead, so I shot it with my 9,3.
When we gutted it out discovered the bullet only penetrated into one lung!
Now before anyone thinks I am Barnes bashing I am not. I use these bullets alot and usually have good results with them. But I was flabergasted at the lack of penetration.

Hey Snowwolfe, Did you measure the Expanded Diameter and Retained Weight? If so, I'll guess it is 0.6xx" or Larger and maybe 130gr.

No, didnt weigh nor measure it as it was night time and we were just trying to get the moose gutted quick and didnt look for it. But we did recover his second shot when we boned out the meat and it was the classic perfect looking mushroom.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Son used 150 TSX's out of his 30 06 this Sept for moose. He took a broadside shot about 100 yards away and hit the bull but it didnt drop but moved postions. He shot it again and it dropped but wasnt dead, so I shot it with my 9,3.
When we gutted it out discovered the bullet only penetrated into one lung!
Now before anyone thinks I am Barnes bashing I am not. I use these bullets alot and usually have good results with them. But I was flabergasted at the lack of penetration.

Proof positive that sectional density does matter. Why anyone would use a 150 gr bullet in a 30 caliber rifle is beyond me, especially on major game like a Moose! If that bullet had been a 180 gr the results would have been different.

quote:

Proof positive that sectional density does matter. Why anyone would use a 150 gr bullet in a 30 caliber rifle is beyond me, especially on major game like a Moose! If that bullet had been a 180 gr the results would have been different.

I always believed the same thing until someone made a good point I never thought of. If I used 180 gr lead bullet out of a 30-06 and I got 80% weight retention..I now have a 146 gr lead bullet. Now, the Barnes 150 at 100% weight retention has a higher sectional density? This really does confuse me.

Yes, but we are talking about the Barnes TSX. I would not shoot a Moose with a conventional cup and core bullet either. With the 180 TSX the sectional density will remain high.

Bullet construction is an important consideration also as is the initial sectional density.

And if anyone thinks that high velocity means greater penetration then they need to rethink that also.

quote:

And if anyone thinks that high velocity means greater penetration then they need to rethink that also.

I agree. Magnumitis causes a lot of bullet failures. At moderate velocities, even cup and core bullets perform well.