I am going to buy a varmint rifle to primarily be used on Prairie Dogs, and occasionally coyotes. Where I hunt can be pretty windy. I have narrowed the choice down to the .204 Ruger or .223 Remington. I already reload for .223, but setting up for another caliber is no big deal. This was discussed about 10 years ago here and the best one seemed to be what whoever happen to shoot. I am curious as to whether the answer given then still holds. Which would you choose and why?

I found the 204 to have an especially unpleasant muzzle blast, and it really puts the prairie dogs into a mist.

I've had both but I really enjoy my .204 Ruger. How flat the cartridge is pretty impressive when you don't have the time to range find the target (coyote calling).

I have a .222 and a .204 and the .204 is the one that gets to go in the truck. I really miss it if I forget and leave it in the house. I have a 22-250 also but the .204 still gets the nod.

If I didn't reload I would probably go with the .223 just so I could find a good load. I reload also and have shot over 1000 rounds in my .204 and it still amazes me quite often. A lot of wow factor in that little bullet.

God Bless, Louis

I have several of both .223 and .204. They both are excellent cartridges for PDs and coyotes. If I could have only one, it would be a .223. However, if I already had a .223 and was willing to invest in dies, I would go for the .204.
In my .223s, I shoot 40 Vmax at PDs and 50 BTs at coyotes.
In my .204s, PDs get 32 Vmax and coyotes 35 Bergers.

I have both and each is an effective cartridge. If I had to pick just one it would be the 223 because in my experience the 204 is considerably more "high maintenance".

Sagebrush Burns, What do you consider high maintenance?

I have 8 or 10 223s I don't plan on adding a 204 if anything else that size it well be another 223 unless a great deal came by on a 204 say half price,

quote:

Originally posted by loud-n-boomer:
Where I hunt can be pretty windy.

223 with heaviest you can stabilize. The 70 grain nosler rdf seems promising.

I have both. I love the 204 the recoil is minimal. I say why not have them both. Some may argue that one is better that the other, but some just like to argue.

I also am amazed that at 1 inch high at a hundred I don't have to think about the shot unless it is a farther than 300yrds. Point and shoot.

Id pick the 223 if I only had one varmint cartridge for a number of reasons..Im not all that excited about the .204 and would opt for a 22-250 if I needed more than a .223, but that's not a lot of difference. I shoot rock chucks and ground squirrels (pin heads) and coyotes in Idaho..Shooting on chucks and pinheads can be hot and furious so need a couple of guns anyway..My choice in the end was a 6x45 because of the wind and its a better coyote gun and doubles for deer and antelope if need be..and I still shoot the .222 Rem, my all time favorite varmint gun..

I've shot both and own a .204, if that says anything.

Best thing ever to happen to a .223 case is to size it
down to .204! I also have a Tac20.

I have seven 223's, from heavy varmint to light weight stalkers. Since I live in the east my varmint hunting is restricted to groundhogs. I also hunt predators, fox and coyotes.

I can't comment on the 204 Ruger since I never owned or shot one. However I highly endorse the 223 for varmint hunting. All mine rifles have 12" twist so I shoot 50 and 55 grain Nosler BT's.

For long range varminting over 300 yards I prefer the 22 250 or 243 but 300 yards and under the 223 does it all.

I went with the .222 R.E.M. In a Sako full stock. Accuracy is incredible shooting factory ammo

Now there's a classic!

You need both so you can let one cool while you keep shooting with the other.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Michalski:
Sagebrush Burns, What do you consider high maintenance?

In this case, two things:

1 - the 204 is considerably fussier about loads - I've had to work hard to find a good load, and one is all I have found - that means no variety in bullet weights/styles or velocities

2 - the 204 requires cleaning much more frequently than either of the 223s - I have to clean the barrel of the 204 every 50 rounds or so (in high volume prairie dog hunting this gets to be a hassle) - the 223s will go literally hundreds of rounds with no accuracy deterioration (they have gone, as an experiment, a full summer varmint season and shot as well at the end as at the beginning

That said, I like the 204. It is very flat shooting and not as wind sensitive as some have said. I just like the 223 better.

The .204 40gr V-Max has a higher BC (.275) than any of the .224 V-Max offerings (.265 for the .224 60gr)

Nosler 22cal 70gr RDF—G1 Ballistic Coefficient 0.416

If you're contending with wind...

Do a Savage 11 switch barrel...one 223 barrel and one in 20 Practical...a 20 cal using a necked down 223 case, no other changes...no muss, no fuss...buy a bushing FL or NK sizing die and load for BOTH with the same die and seater.

You get MUCH higher velos with the 20 cal but also with lower BC's but out to 400 yds it's basically a wash...check the ballistics tables and see the miniscule difference in drop and wind.

Go to the 223 for the heavier bullet weights.

Go to 6 or 6.5 for better wind AND you can use the SAME 223 case and loading dies if you watch what your doing.

Yeah...I have those toys and you have to do a whole lot of conjugating to see any actual difference out to 300 yds argumentatively speaking, you can ALWAYS find the split hair.

223 for economy of available cheap ammo and shoot 35-40 gr for ratz, 80 Nos BT for larger game or go with the 22 Nosler for the high prices spread and a 243 Win for the best of both worlds...55 Nos BT/58 VM for sageratz, a FMJ/MONO for 'yotes to keep the fur and 80-105 Nos BT for deer/antelope/anything else.

Be sure to get the right twist for the bullet weights!!!!!!! Do a search...LOT'S of good information AND opinion here on which and what.

Luck

quote:

Do a Savage 11 switch barrel...one 223 barrel and one in 20 Practical...a 20 cal using a necked down 223 case, no other changes...no muss, no fuss...buy a bushing FL or NK sizing die and load for BOTH with the same die and seater.

You get MUCH higher velos with the 20 cal but also with lower BC's but out to 400 yds it's basically a wash...check the ballistics tables and see the miniscule difference in drop and wind.

That is what I do with a Savage. I also have 20 practical in an AR-15 platform. I think I shoot better because there is so little recoil my sight picture never changes while shooting.

Matt

quote:

Originally posted by jpl:
Nosler 22cal 70gr RDF—G1 Ballistic Coefficient 0.416

If you're contending with wind...

What would the Mv be though?

Yeah, Matt, it works fine there too...

Mine has a 26" BBL and the velos I'm getting with 25-26 gr bullets are ungodly intense...without straining the boiler or the cases. fired ONE Lapua case 50 times just to see "whattheheckandwhy"...it's still trucking...p.p. still tight, little or no trimming, turned it once to fit chamber and again after 25 shots...very little brass removal the second time.

I shoot 32 VM's mostly...when the wind comes up I always have some larger cal to take over.

Wildcat...check out Nosler, they have all the data...~2800 to 3500 depending on bullet weight and barrel length...capacity wise ~34 gr H2O it's about the same as the PPC, BR, or 6.8 SPC cases...but with a rebated .378 rim and a .441 base...very slightly larger than a TCU...just slightly fatter.

Luck

quote:

Originally posted by Sagebrush Burns:
1 - the 204 is considerably fussier about loads - I've had to work hard to find a good load, and one is all I have found - that means no variety in bullet weights/styles or velocities
...

I guess I just lucked out. I wasn't looking for one but a .204 at an estate sale was too good a deal to pass on. I took some once-fired brass, and some surplus powder and got an effortless .5MOA with 40gr Nosler BTs even with nearly .090" jump to the lands feeding from max box length. 'Point blank' range for prairie dogs is 350 yards at my elevation.

There's nothing wrong with .20 cal stuff except that all the regular gear is incompatible. I had to get a dedicated cleaning rod, brush and jag which wouldn't work with my cleaning patches so I had to modify it. If I had just stayed with .22 cal I could have saved the effort. .22 cal has 33gr to 90gr projectiles and there's buckets of SAAMI cases if you need something flatter shooting than .223Rem.

quote:

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
The .204 40gr V-Max has a higher BC (.275) than any of the .224 V-Max offerings (.265 for the .224 60gr)

Not true. Check out the .224 53 gr VMAX and its BC. It has a .290 BC.

I don't believe that is the correct BC for the 53 grain V-max. If it is the 53 grain is better than the 55 grain. May be a typo on Hornady's web site.

God Bless, Louis

I now own one of each again...so I can't help with your decision

Ruger M77 .204R w/ 32gr
Cooper M21 .223 w/ 50gr

I think that people should own both. I was wanting a .22-250...maybe I shouldn't stop at 2 varmint rifles

quote:

maybe I shouldn't stop at 2 varmint rifles

I have a lot more then that most in 223

Both are very capable. A good PD trip or ranch is going to take a lot of rounds. After this last dry spell of brass its the 223 for me. I think a lot of the shortages we experienced the last few years are over for the next 4 years I hope. Sounds like Federal in Minnesota has started laying folks off.

I have and pd shoot with both. I hit better with the 204, but the difference doesn't amount to much.

I have both in the same model of rifle, the RAR-Predator. 223 factory ammo is cheaper, but if you're going to reload, the difference is greatly reduced.

Every 204 that I've owned, Remington, Ruger, and Savage has been sub-MOA capable and the 40 grain .204 bullets shoot an awfully flat trajectory.

Have had both the .204 and the .223 and shot p-dogs with them both. I have to weigh in on the side of the .223 for these reasons:
1. Loaded ammo is cheaper and available everywhere.
2. Reloading components are cheaper and almost a "must" if you are shooting 500 rounds a day in the p-dog fields.