Folks,

I am buying a 221 Fireball Remington 700 Classic that was in the classifieds. My 222 is too heavy to carry around(a 40x with hvy bl and rangemaster stock)and I think the 221 is kinda neat. I had one in an original Remy "pistol". What I need to know is...Will the 24 inch barrel be a hindrance to performance? Would I be better off to shorten the barrel to 20 inches? I am not too concerned about destroying collector value by shortening the barrel if it would be beneficial to performance.

Andy

Seems to me it will be a little faster and little quieter if you leave it long.

The 24" will probably be 50-75fps faster than 20". I'd leave it.

Drew

I have a CZ hornet that has been chopped two inches. Still very accurate, and although 2 inches doesn't sound like much, this rifle seems to handle super easy. Real good truck gun for the gopher patch. FS

I have the same, unmodified- uses a variable 12x scope, a sling, and Harris bipod. More than accurate enough for my modest skills with Rem factory 50 gr ammo; most pleasant rifle to carry for a day in the field and shoot.

I can't imagine a real advantage in shortening the barrel on it.

Just my 2¢

I used that same gun on Prairie Dogs for about three years. Average approx 3,000 shots a year. Perfect just the way it is! I used 40 gr V-Max and a near max charge of Lil'Gun with very good results. Doesn't give away much to a 223 Rem.
Charlie

Thanks for the info! I'll leave her the way she comes from the factory!

Andy

I shortened my CZ223 Varmint to 20" and does it make a difference in how well it handles .... It isn,t very load and I really like it this way ..... Enough so I will try a CZ 527 Carbine .... I hope to get a whole flock of little CZs . 17 Rem .and 221 Fireball . 17 Fireball if they make it all with 20 " barrels or shorter ... So far all my coyotes and fox have been gotten with the rifle at hand . a 416 , a 9.3, and 2 with the 308 in a Ruger Compact .. 4 inches of barrel makes a big difference IMO .... For me a short round should have a short barrel ....

I will be the one to question the usefullness of 24 inches of barrel with this small case.

I plan someday to pull out all of my .223's and compare velocity of all the differant barrel lingths.
I have .223's the shortest 10" contender up to 24" also 14" 16" 20" and a friend has an 18".
I feel max velocity will hit with the 20" barrel but time will tell.
In the mean time I think this experiment has been done before here on AR it would be worth a search to see the results. It might be over on the reloading pages.

AKshooter: Comparing diffferent barrels and chambers will tell you little. In order to meaningfully test the effect of barrel length you would have to start with a longer barrel and shorten it in increments.

However, if somehow you feel that a .223 loses velocity after the bullet passes the 20" mark, then you have been receiving your training in ballistic theory near the bottom of a rum bottle.

Drewhenry: Unless you need to use your .221 in a very restricted space there is no need to shorten the barrel for "performance" reasons. You won't lose a huge amount of velocity, but you will make the relatively soft report of the little cartridge louder and closer to your ear. My .221 came with a 22" barrel and I see no need to shorten it (nor significant advantage in a longer barrel).

Originallyposted by stonecreek

quote:

AKshooter: Comparing diffferent barrels and chambers will tell you little. In order to meaningfully test the effect of barrel length you would have to start with a longer barrel and shorten it in increments.

However, if somehow you feel that a .223 loses velocity after the bullet passes the 20" mark, then you have been receiving your training in ballistic theory near the bottom of a rum bottle.

Stonecreek -your right, to make the experiment perfect would requier shortening a specfic barrel incramentally with a case lot of matching ammo. More information can be obtained by adding other lots of ammo of differant bullet weights and powder chargers.

I do not plan on doing this but to say little will be learned is misleading. I have a bulk lot of ammo that if nothing else will help me make comparisons between my own guns,,,not worthless information.

I did not say the bullet of a .223 would start slowing down after 20 inches of barrel. I said I suspect it would peak out at 20" but I also said I don't know. I do feel that anything over 20" would give a very limited amount of added velocity if any.

Anyway I really don't need to explain this. The way I worded my comments I made no absolout statments about performance and barrel length I just started the post off by saying
"I question the usefullness of a 24" barrel"
I mentioned my intent to do my experiment and I projected my opinion of what I thought the results could be.

Now as far as explaining is concerned. Would you please explain to me why you would make the comment that I was "Reciving my training in ballistic theory near the bottom of a rum bottle"

Why do you make such a cruely arrogant statement. I see no need for it. even if I'm wrong about the performance above 20" that comment was uncalled for.

So what now? are you going to dig up someones test and prove to me that I'm wrong and know nothing about ballistics because it can be proven that somebody got a whole extra 10 f.p.s. per inch of barrel over 20".

Tell me about your experiments with the .223 and barrel length. If you haven't done any then why are you so sure of the results. I already have some of the first round of test done and so far "you are right" testing a 20" AR to a 24" closed breech bolt action. Next I'll reverse this and compare a 20" bolt action to my 24" AR. We'll see just how the gas port effects the velocity but I can assure you the results don't show a significant change from 20" to 24".

I did some velocity/accuracy/penetration tests involving the 5.56/223 several years ago, for "work".

Barrel lengths included 10", 14", 16",20" and 24".

Several different factory rounds were tested.

All were AR/M16/M4 type rifles.

Velocity was highest with the 24" barrel, and decreased as bbl lenght got shorter, as would be expected.

Sorry I do not have the exact figures with me now.

I have used bolt 223 rifles with 20, 22, and 24 inch barrels.

For a light weight handy walk around hunting 223 a 20" barrel works great.

For a light 221 Fireball I think it would be about perfect.

BUT I would shoot it first, if it was a "one holer" I would NOT cut it down.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

AK,

I see you also acquired your sense of humor near the bottom of the same bottle.

I apologize. I should not take such liberties with someone whose personality I am unfamiliar with.

I read your statement that you believe that "max velocity will hit with the 20" barrel" to mean exactly that. If it reaches maximum velocity at 20 inches then it will be less than maximum at all other barrel lengths. Is this an unreasonable interpretation of the your statement? If so, I again apologize.

And instead of rum, it could be rye whiskey or any number of other libations

Originally posted by stonecreek

quote:

And instead of rum, it could be rye whiskey or any number of other libations

Your right I hate rum.

I have a 26in. barrel for my TC Encore that's chambered for the 221 Rem Fireball.
It rates right up there with a 223 Rem., not a lot of difference.
I don't remember what the velocity was, I load with 50 grain V-Max bullets.
Shoots little groups!

This will be of more help than anything said so far.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/223sb.html

It,s amazeing how fast a fight can start on here . Kind of funny ....
Not that I,m makeing fun of anyone .......
.
. For me , in a practicle rifle . for a general , always have at hand , fur ,varmint , blastin rifle . 20 " is a good max length and I,m really looking fwd to a Ruger Compact SS Lam. 223 . it,s 16.5" barrel may be the all time champ for me . As an aside I see on the Ruger web site they are listing the Compact now as having a 1 in 9 twist .. They list all the 223 rifles @ 1 in 9 .... . A 223 from a short barrel should give simlar velocity to the 221 Fireball

Ak Shooter; Thanks for posting the velocity / barrel shortening experiment ... ... As I like H4198 powder , ( Temp. insensitive ) It was very useful to me ... It shows that 16.5" of barrel should get 3000 Fps W/52 gr bullet .... Possibly will with the 53 gr TSX bullet ........Pretty awesome !!!!!!!!!!!! Something to mull over today @ work ..!!!!

longer is better and faster...I once built a 221 FB with a 26-1/2" barrel...the dang thing got 3600 with a 40 VMax grainer and 15.5 grs of LilGun powder...that's 223 veocity....then I rechambered it to 223 because I couldn't get the FB case to extract and eject properly out of the Rem 700 action....feeding was fine as I had a shortened follower and a block in the rear of the mag box.

Then I bought a CZ 527 in a 221 FB....great little rifle...feeds like it should and shoots well too...haven't chronyed it...

I,ve got a 221 Fireball round in my hand as I write this ... I,m really looking fwd to getting a 527 in the caliber ...

The 24" barrel won't hinder the rounds performance, you'll get slightly higher velocity than a shorter barrel. But if your goal is a light handy carry rifle, you would likely find the rifle would be handier with a 20" barrel.

I got my daughter a rem lvsf 221 f-ball, w/ a 22" fluted barrel. So far the best load is a 50 gr v-max over 18.5gr of RL 7. I haven't cronoed it, but it should be doing ~3000 fps.

That model comes with 24" barrel and 1:14" twist. If I had to make a change it would be to put a faster twist and shoot heavier bullet. Its a very accurate rifle and my all-time favorite.

Thanks for all the advice folks. I will shoot it like it arrives and see. If it be a tack driver then I'll leave her alone. If not..............



Andy

I have a CZ .221 as well as several wildcats and another standard round all based on the .221 Parent case. Altogether I have a .221, a .20 VarTarg, a .17 MachIV and a .17 Fire Ball. My take it that there isn't much to be gained by going over 20 to 22 inches with any of these cases. I also agree there isn't that much to be lost either by going to 24 or even 26 inches.
Personal opinion only but I view about 22 inches as the best length in terms of velocity and as mentioned above the noise factor.
This is an older copy of AA's loading data on the .221. Note their assertion that in a rifle length barrel the .221 "DUPLICATES" the Triple Duce for performance (the .221 is rated to 52,000 C.U.P SAAMI Spec and the .222 only 42,000, which would explain the difference). I know that I load my CZ with it's 22 inch barrel to 3tenth's of a grain less than they show as a max load of AA1680 here using a 40 grain V-Max or BlitzKing and get just under 3,600FPS and serious rat smacking accuracy, pretty amazing performance.
All the rounds based on the .221 case seem to be very efficient and over-achieving rounds, great in short barreled light weight packages. Let us know how that Classic shoots for ya, real nice looking rifles. Personally I'd "guess" the old fast barrel/slow barrel phenomena would account for as much or more velocity spread between a 22 inch and 24 inch barrel as that couple a inches in barrel length would.
I am real fond of 1680 and 40 grainers if your a reloader, seen it be a winning combo in a number of .221's. Good luck!