I am considering rechambering my 22-250 to a wildcat based on the 243 case since I have plenty of brass. Is the 243 simply necked down to 224 a good round?

quote:

Originally posted by Palidun:
I am considering rechambering my 22-250 to a wildcat based on the 243 case since I have plenty of brass. Is the 243 simply necked down to 224 a good round?

With a fast twist to handle the heaviest .224 bullets it can be an excellent long range rifle. I'm not sure what the real practical gain would be with a 1-14 twist and lighter bullets. roger

quote:

I'm not sure what the real practical gain would be with a 1-14 twist and lighter bullets. beerroger

keeps the barrel makers busy

I think the common one is a .22-243 Middlestead. I don't think it is a straight neck down wildcat however. A sharper shoulder, maybe? It is pretty comparable to a .220 Swift which I have lots of experience with. If I didn't have so much Swift brass, I'd probably build one. A 1 in 10 twist will work with heavier bullets at .220 Swift velocities.

I wouldn’t know which version this is but it’s the only drawing I have on file for the 22-243.

I would like to push the 60-64 grain bullets that easily stabilize in a 1 in 14 inch twist a bit faster than 3500 fps, maybe push 3900 fps and see how they hold up on deer and hog brains.

quote:

Originally posted by MickinColo:
I wouldn’t know which version this is but it’s the only drawing I have on file for the 22-243.

A neck length of .200 would make me think it is the 243 case necked down with no other change.

quote:

Originally posted by Palidun:
...Is the 243 simply necked down to 224 a good round?

Hey Palidun, It depends on who you talk to and how "Slow" the Powder is you can round up.

Back about 40yrs ago(Wow, didn't realize it was that long!) there was interest in the 22 Cheetah. It was basically a 243Win Case necked down to hold a 0.224" Bullet, but it also had a Small Primer Pocket. They were able to do this because Remington had made a special run of those cases for Competition Shooters. The idea was if it worked well on the 22PPC and 6mmPPC, then it "might" shoot better for anyone wanting to try those Cases. I think they came in 308Win and you just Necked them to where you wanted them. I may still have some somewhere, mot sure though.

Only problem was the Small Rifle Primer was not 100% reliable with that much Slow Powder. They would not ignite the Powder at a consistent Burn Rate.

I seem to remember some folks Shortening the Case and going through all the Calibers again, but it was a lot of work with little to show for it.
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So, if you try it, the first thing to do is find Load Data for the 22 Cheetah and then see if you can locate a suitable(Slow enough) Powder to make it worth the effort. Perhaps the Slowest Powders we have today might work well, I don't know. I seem to remember they used to use something called "Thunderbird Powder" or something like that.

And I think Kenny Jarrett also made a 22cal on a 243Win Case, but that could be wrong.

Best of luck to you.

Have you shot a 64gr thru a 1/14, especially at 3500fps to see that it does indeed stabilize??
What did the bullet holes look like out at 2-300 yards?

I had a 22-243 Middlestead and a 22-6mm, sold both of them to guys who needed more speed than I did.

Both were 1-14" ROT barrels, so the outcomes might have been different with quicker RsOT. The 22-6mm was a rechambered Winchester 70 22-250 barrel and I've never seen a cartridge/barrel combination that ate throat faster. This barrel had just had the chamber recut when I got it and in less than 500 slow fired rounds it would have needed to have the barrel set back and the chamber recut again.

I guess that I'll stick with the 223 and 22-250 for the majority of my .224" bore shooting needs.

Jeff

My present 1 in 14 twist 22-250 shoots the Speer 70 gr. bullet, the old 64 gr. Barnes Burner, the 64 gr. Winchester PP just fine. I can't imagine more speed being a problem in it. What would I gain by just going the 22-250 Ackley improved route? I may just post a want to buy add for any of the three die sets and let the first offer make my decision.

The additional velocity will allow for about 50 yards more "dead on" hold for a coyote. The drawing you have is similar to the 22/243 Middlested except the Middlested uses a .256 Neck dia. A 22/243 Middlested with a 26" barrel will run a 70gr bullet at 3650 with ease and excellent brass life. I know guys getting 3800, but they do pay the price with short brass life.

www.duanesguns.com

I think a better thing would be a 25-243. It should get almost 25-06 velocities. And with the 75 gr bullets be a very good varmint gun.
And with the 115- 120 gr bullets a very good deer rifle.

44mag Leo- take a look at my 257DGR, you will find that your guess is pretty close.

www.duanesguns.com

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by Palidun:
...Is the 243 simply necked down to 224 a good round?

Hey Palidun, It depends on who you talk to and how "Slow" the Powder is you can round up.

Back about 40yrs ago(Wow, didn't realize it was that long!) there was interest in the 22 Cheetah. It was basically a 243Win Case necked down to hold a 0.224" Bullet, but it also had a Small Primer Pocket. They were able to do this because Remington had made a special run of those cases for Competition Shooters. The idea was if it worked well on the 22PPC and 6mmPPC, then it "might" shoot better for anyone wanting to try those Cases. I think they came in 308Win and you just Necked them to where you wanted them. I may still have some somewhere, mot sure though.

Only problem was the Small Rifle Primer was not 100% reliable with that much Slow Powder. They would not ignite the Powder at a consistent Burn Rate.

I seem to remember some folks Shortening the Case and going through all the Calibers again, but it was a lot of work with little to show for it.
-----

So, if you try it, the first thing to do is find Load Data for the 22 Cheetah and then see if you can locate a suitable(Slow enough) Powder to make it worth the effort. Perhaps the Slowest Powders we have today might work well, I don't know. I seem to remember they used to use something called "Thunderbird Powder" or something like that.

And I think Kenny Jarrett also made a 22cal on a 243Win Case, but that could be wrong.

Best of luck to you.

.22 Cheetah! Haven't heard that one mentioned in probably 25 years. It was a creation of Jim Carmichael's if my memory is correct.

How does the case capacity of the various .22-.243 cartidges compare to the .22-.250?

quote:

How does the case capacity of the various .22-.243 cartidges compare to the .22-.250?

According to the Quickload program

22-243 50.00 grains H2O
22 Cheetah MK I 54.0 grains H2O
22 Cheetah MK II 56.0 grains H2O
22-250 43.5 Grains H2O

I've been shooting the 22-243 MIDDLESTED for 40 odd years...went through 2-3 barrels on a Ruger Tang action and now have an T/C Encore OEM 22-250 that I rechambered to 22-243 Midd because the OEM chamber was totally messed up, this after sending it back to T/C 3 times for new barrels.

It IS, as the name implies, a 243 necked to 22 cal and pretty much nothing else changed. There is an AI's version or two floating around with much sharper shoulder but the standard version seems to work great...I also played around with some small primered cases, but they had problems so I chucked them.

You can use several other cases...308, X57, '06 to make them...neck length doesn't seem to make much difference, I've used 243 and 308 cases mixed with the same load and while the accuracy was best using one brand and length case, mixed still stayed below ~3/4"

My first barrel was a 220 1-14 rechamber and it shot 55 and below and the shorter Hornady 60gr SP but scattered the longer Hornady 60gr HP. The next barrel was a 1-12 and it shot 65-68 gr and below great, > 0.5", the Encore barrel is supposed to be 1-10 and I've shot up to 70 gr Berger VLD's very accurately, but above that you need a faster twist, 1-8 or 1-9.

I shoot mostly 50-60 gr "whateversonsale" on sage rats at 250-300yds and out...anything closer is just wasting the potential.

I've also worked up some hellacious 40gr Vmax and Nosler loads well over 4500fs I won't post and those are purple haze and very small pieces and parts, but the velocity drops off so fast that the heavier bullets catch up and pass the ligher bullets out around 300 yds or so.

Basically the Midd has a case capacity about 6% over the Swift...you can get swift velocity at much less pressure, but you can jack the He** out of the Midd if you break out in magnumitis.

I works well on game the size of a big mulie buck, with a solidly constructed bullet and I wouldn't hesitate to plug an elk, but I know it's limitations and mine so 100 yds or so is a good limit for larger game unless presented a very good shot and have a solid support and all the other factors considered.

I never understood why it never took off as a factory round other that it is a "tweener"...sitting right in between the 22-250 and the 243...sort of a red headed, bastard step child.

It is an easy 22-250 rechamber...Reamer Rentals has the OEM Midd reamer.

The 22-6mmRem and AI versions are other very good wildcats with similar or better ballistics...and of course, the 22-284 has it's following. They all are other "hidden" ones that gets short shrift because of all the comparison and splitting hair gargage, but because they are on the edge of "overbore" for "normal" 24-26" barrels, magnumitis and ignorance of all the variables in reloading, they are considered "barrel burners" and don't really reach their max potential until you screw on a 28" and longer barrel.

If you want a high perf anything you have to pay a price somewhere, otherwise stick to a 223...it is a very good cartridge,(I have 3 and a couple extra barrels) sufficient for 80-90% of most varminting/hunting and will give you a long barrel life and years of enjoyment.

Luck

Although I have a perfectly good 22/250, I feel an irrational need to build a new 22/47 Lapua. I know it is a stupid idea, but I think it will happen this year. I just need to pick up a Sako for a donor.

Palidun,

I corresponded with one of the guys at a reloading equipment manufacturer once (think it was Redding) who mentioned that he formed his 22-250 brass from 243 or was it 308? Hmmm.... Then he could neck turn to get a tight necked type of set up on his factory 22-250.

You may be able to use the 243 brass without rechambering?

I have been shooting a 22/6mm(224TTH) for @ 10 years. It is built with a "magnum contour" brl that is 26" long 1/9 twist on a 700BDL action. I shoot it at groundhogs, coyotes, and just last week a F class kinda shoot. We shot 5 shot groups prone from 100-700 yards.

I shoot 69gr SMK at 3600fps. That is the load I ALWAYS use on groundhogs and coyotes. I have also shot a couple deer with this load. I currently shoot a 70gr barnes X bullet for deer at 3740fps.

I have @ 600 rounds in the gun. We looked at the bore with a "scope" that a Dr buddy uses in surgery. There were no indication of any erosion or roughness!

I Like this cartridge, but it is a specialized caliber. If you are going to shoot things like coyotes, groundhogs, and deer where the shots are usually singular in nature it is great. I would not want to use one in a high volume shoot like prarie dogs or some target shooting.

The only thing I would do different is build the gun on a LONG action so I could seat the 70+ grain bullets out long enough and still get them to feed out of magazine.

If you have any questions just ask.

thanks
224TTH

I've know several people over the years that used 243 and 308 cases for reforming 22-250 and 22-250 AI brass just for that reason...22-250 and 250 Sav cases are ~1.912" nominal length...243 is ~2.035", 308 - ~2.005" to 2.015". Today we have the 260 and 7-08 cases to use. Others that have used 6mm Rem, 7 and 8x57 cases to get even more case thickness. I've done the same...AND WORSE!!!...I used '06 cases to make 6mm Rem in one barrel whose neck was cut at 0.282" ID...I needed 0.018" case neck walls to take up the slack...didn't loose any case volume because that bunch of '06 brass was thin to begin with. Yeah...and trimmed 7 and 8mm cases to make 356 Win brass to see how they would pan out.

There is one other problem with futzing around with non-standard cases...sometimes case capacity is lost due to the thicker walls. Sometimes you loose velocity also and sometimes you don't...NOTHING is EVER locked in stone when it comes to wildcatting.

In this game you use whatever you got to get where you want to go and learn all the good stuff along the way.

You can't use the full length 243 case without rechambering something...Check out 6mmBR there is LOTS of finagling with 250 and 243 cases and mucking about with reamers to get just the PERFECT 6mm case for the PERFECT case capacity for the 6mm bore. Very good information for ANY budding wildcatter or experimenter.

Luck