Hey guys, been trying loads again and I think I got to see the worst case of unstable bullet flight I have ever seen! I was trying to get started with the 115gr berger VLDs and I ran into this extreme.

My rifle is a ruger M77 MKII Target in .243 Winchester 1:9 twist. Shoots one hole groups with 55gr Nosler BT and sub 1/4MOA with 105 gr AMAX but for my first experience with the VLDs it doesn't look good. The bullets were actually hitting the paper "broadsided". I've seen some mild key-holes but nothing like this.


As you can see they were really doing the wobbler.
For some reason, probably a brain fart, but I started my laods based of the starting load for a 105gr. I strated with IMR 4350 since that is what I have most of and it shoots good in my rifle. I loaded 35.5gr and seated the bullets touching the lands (2.925") short of my max COL with this bullet(2.935" which is hard on the lands).
35.5gr=2475fps avg.
36.0gr= 2545avg
36.5gr= 2585avg with no signs of improvement in stability.
Is my velocity too low or is it my seating or twist.
They show no signs of high pressure and base on the lack of velocity I believe they could use a heavier charge. I would greatly appreciate it if someone would throw me some starting load data.
Someone point me in the right direction please.

Looks like you don't have enough twist for these long bullets. I guess the 105's are about as long as your barrel likes.

That's a VERY long bullet for a .243 Win.

Berger recommends a 1:7 twist with that bullet.

/snicker. Back when I was shooting IDPA-stuff, when I saw targets like that I knew it was time to clean my revolver!

Just turn the target 90 degrees !

When my rifle shoots bullets like that, I go to another bullet. Kinda simple, huh.

Thanks guys I was thinking the same. I still don't know why I bought the bullets in the first place. But that was a couple of years back. Maybe I was hoping my rifle might just happen to shoot them well.
I may try some 107gr but I'll probably just stick with the 105Amax since I know it'll shoot them. Guess I can work on some loads for hunting next or I might try some of those Accutips that are hiding on my shelf.

Would have been nice to try one on a deer. Wonder what it would look like if it hit a deer flat like it hit the paper???

Anyone want to buy some Berger 115 VLDs??? Got about 94 left in a box.

Hey, you gotta try. That's why most reloaders have shelves of partial can of powder and partial boxes of bullets with a lot of dust on them. I ain't gonna tell you how much I paid for 500 custom made "match" bullets that shot about like your's did.

Like you said "you gotta try". I love the rifle its heavy, has a good trigger, a good stock and to beat it all it 100% original. I was at one time thinking of re-barreling it but after some research on the 243 winchester, I decided not to.

I want to get my bullet inventory down to just what I will be shooting and the same with my powder. I have a large supply of IMR4350 and so far it is proving to shoot very well in what I have. May not be the best but it is accurate under my main bullets.

I look at it like this...shooting fast is good, hitting where you aim is better, but doing both is the best.

Who knows I may own a 6XC one day that will shoot those 115s.

While we're talking fast twist... Is the opposite not as detrimental, i.e., light (short) bullets in fast twist barrels may not be optimum but they don't upset, do they?

I have heard, but never experienced first hand, that shooting a light "thin jacketed" bullet through a fast twist barrel at high velocity could destroy the bullet. I guess it would spin apart upon exiting the barrel because the centrifical forces would be so great.
Like I said I have never experienced it but I haven't been doing it that long either.

quote:

Originally posted by bmazingo:
I have heard, but never experienced first hand, that shooting a light "thin jacketed" bullet through a fast twist barrel at high velocity could destroy the bullet. I guess it would spin apart upon exiting the barrel because the centrifical forces would be so great.
Like I said I have never experienced it but I haven't been doing it that long either.

Very true indeed.

We have experienced this shooting some bullets in the 220 Swift and the 22-243..

The bullets never make it to the target above a certain velocity.

Then we found one can actually see a sort of mist coming out of the barrel as the rifle is fired, especially if one fires the rifle with the barrel up looking at the sky.

Just tried the same bullet in my 6x284 Varmint rig to see if enough velocity made a difference. I built the rifle with a 1 in 12" twist for 70-85 grain bullets at around 3800. I wanted to see if I could generte enough velocity to overcome the slow twist. I still don't know. I shot at the center of a 12x16 site in target at 100 yards. The rifle was dead center with Sierra 70 gr BTHP match bulletts. Shot 4 at the center with no marks on the paper. Shot 4 more at each of the bench rest targets in each of the four corners, trying to locate the bullet strike. End result is that I have a perfectly good target to use again.

Pretty sure they didn't break up, since these are used sometimes by long range shooters with big case 6mm's. They just went off to la la land.

I too have seen the high velocity syndrome. A long, long time ago, before the 22-250 was a factory cartridge, a friend and I spent an afternoon watching the copper clouds just in front of the barrel of his ne 22 Varminter when trying to hit some real high velocity numbers with 22 Hornet bullets.

they will work in your 1/9"barrel if you can push them to about 6000fps (no kidding)

Yep, a real head scratcher. I had this with a .222 Sako heavy varmit made in the 50'S Never checked the twist and loaded 55 grainers and went to the range. I was lucky to hit paper and when it did it looked like your target. Checked twist and it was 1 in 14. Loaded some 40 and 45s and it ws one hole groups.

Tacksmacker