Chronographed some .204 loads for a fella today. It was a Ruger varmint and shot nicely in between wind gusts. Can someone tell me what nitch this cartridge filled in the real world of fire arms? I enjoyed shooting it as I would any accurate rifle but the need escapes me for the cartridge. roger

I never use the word need when discussing my hobbies. The word want is I think more correct.
As to the 204 it fills no void I am aware of. But I wanted one. Nuf said.

muck

I didn't have a varmint rig so I purchased the 204 if , if it had been 10 years back might have gone with 22-250 or one of the many other choices. So I guess some folks just now have one more choice.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Chronographed some .204 loads for a fella today. It was a Ruger varmint and shot nicely in between wind gusts. Can someone tell me what nitch this cartridge filled in the real world of fire arms? I enjoyed shooting it as I would any accurate rifle but the need escapes me for the cartridge. roger

The manufacturers needed to sell more rifles and ammunition and components. Oh well, I needed another Rem 700 and a Ruger #1 anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Chronographed some .204 loads for a fella today. It was a Ruger varmint and shot nicely in between wind gusts. Can someone tell me what nitch this cartridge filled in the real world of fire arms? I enjoyed shooting it as I would any accurate rifle but the need escapes me for the cartridge. roger

Roger,
I built a 20 tactical before the 204 Ruger came out and afterwards I rechambered to the standard cartridge.

Nice for prairie dogs but it really didn't do anything my 223 with 40 grain bullets didn't do. I traded it for something else and don't really miss it at all.

I believe it was to gap the bridge between the 17 Rem and the .223 and in theory anyway seemed to be a great idea.

I'm very happy with my cheap to shoot .223 and not looking back.

Fast, flat and 3900fps without turning pelts in dust, and you can watch the hits through the scope. You can get there with a 243, with almost twice the powder, and 55's, but that is not pelt friendly.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Chronographed some .204 loads for a fella today. I enjoyed shooting it as I would any accurate rifle but the need escapes me for the cartridge. roger

Roger,
Nice for prairie dogs but it really didn't do anything my 223 with 40 grain bullets didn't do. .

That was my thinking and the guy's who owned the .204.

The marketing of something new and different seems to be the reason for it's existance and so be it I guess if someone WANTS it. roger

Roger the .204 is kind of like whiskey you can live without it but a little whiskey now and then is pretty nice.

I have two identical rifles except one is chambered in .204 Ruger and the other is chambered in .223AI....both have 24" barrels.

The .204 will easily do 4100 fps with the 32gr V-Max and the .223AI will easily do 3950 fps with 40gr Nosler Ballistic's.

With the .204 I'm not suprised when I can put 5 shots into a 1/2" group at 100 yards..and it has done better on a couple of occassions.

With the .223AI I will shoot a 1/2" 5-shot group once in awhile but the norm is just under 3/4"...but it may be the trigger on the .204 is a little better but the .223AI's trigger isn't shabby either.

The difference between the 2 rifles ----

(1) I can normally see long-range hits with the .204 while I rarely see the actual hits with the .223AI.

(2) I can shoot inexpensive regular .223 ammo in the .223AI and have nice fire-formed brass while the .204 is a bit more expensive to shoot.

(3) For me, and this is a personal thing, the .223AI is a lot easier to make quality reloads.

The advantage of being able to usually see hits is nice but not that big a deal so I will probably wind up selling the .204 Ruger....but maybe I'll keep both of them.

Some helpfull information: http://www.6mmbr.com/20Caliber.html

-Low recoil
-Spot hits
-Less winddrift
-Less barrel heat

People, let's be realistic. How many cartridges that have been introduced in the last few decades have done anything more than keep the arms companies and the gun writers in business. We don't need a .20 caliber gun to fill any gaps, it's just that some of us want them. We may try to justify it saying it's fast and flat and low recoiling. But anyone who has an affinity towards something will look past it's short comings to see only their favorite aspects of that something. I love my .204, but it doesn't kill woodchucks any different than my .22 LR or .22 Hornet. If you have a .223 or .22/250 you don't need a .204 Ruger. To those who want to try the .204, go for it, it's a pleasent cartridge to shoot. To those who have their doubts about it, don't waste your money, buy some more cheap brass and bulk packaged bullets and have fun.

Good shooting everyone!

quote:

Originally posted by Kimber.204:
People, let's be realistic. How many cartridges that have been introduced in the last few decades have done anything more than keep the arms companies and the gun writers in business. We don't need a .20 caliber gun to fill any gaps, it's just that some of us want them. We may try to justify it saying it's fast and flat and low recoiling. But anyone who has an affinity towards something will look past it's short comings to see only their favorite aspects of that something. I love my .204, but it doesn't kill woodchucks any different than my .22 LR or .22 Hornet. If you have a .223 or .22/250 you don't need a .204 Ruger. To those who want to try the .204, go for it, it's a pleasent cartridge to shoot. To those who have their doubts about it, don't waste your money, buy some more cheap brass and bulk packaged bullets and have fun.

Good shooting everyone!

Nicely stated! roger

Roger,

I am sure we spoke about this when I was down in LA this summer....Yeah, I don't see anything the 204 will do that the 223 can't and at a more cost effective price.....

If someone wants faster bullets, and can live with smaller bullets, like the 204 offers... Calhoon bullets offers 30, and 37 grain bullets in 22 caliber.... I have loaded up some 37 grain HP Calhoons and broke 4000 fps easily....

I see no reason for a 204, but I can see some exotic appeal in say a 20BR....but that won't give me anything that a 22.250 won't give me either.....

I guess it is better that others have something different to use, than to have fewer choices...

Seafire: I have been correcting you so often lately I am tired of writing your whole monicker!
You are just Seafire - from now on.
What will the 204 do that the 223 can't? The list is long my naive and missinformed nimrod friend!
But I will only tell you a few of the most glaring betterments the 204 achieves over the 223 Remington!
And remember there Seafire, I have been shooting the 223 for MORE than 40 years now!
"I" know what the 223 CAN do!
The 223 in no way compares to the vastly superior 204 Ruger cartridge - performance wise!
Now for the "A" list of the 204's superior attributes!
The 204 Ruger has less recoil than the 223 - this allows a shooter to spot his own hits and misses, more often!
The 204 Rugers projectiles not only fly faster AND flatter than projectiles from 223's but these projectiles drift LESS in the wind!
The 204 Ruger cartridge heats barrels somewhat slower than 223's!
With all the 204's I have personal knowledge of and those I own and shoot myself the 204 Ruger appears to have an accuracy edge over the 223!
And remember Seafire I presently own and shoot 8 Rifles in caliber 223 Remington and have owned maybe 20 others over the past decades!
I presently own just 3 Rifles in caliber 204 Ruger!
Three's enough!
They (my 204 Rifles) have proven to me (and to many, many others!) the superiority of the 204 over the 223!
I have killed virtually every manner of Varmint and small game with my 204's and the 204 again has the edge in lethality on small game and Varmints!
I could add some insults here and I may choose to add some later but I simply have to ask of you Seafire - where is your head AT?
You are WAY wrong on this one!
So, if, in your myopic world, if flatter trajectories are not appealing, less wind drift is not appealing, if slower to heat barrels are not appealing AND less recoil is not appealing, and enhanced lethality is not appealing, then so be that! You just stay in your myopic, biased little world.
BUT!
Don't try to pass off horse shit as caviar!
I for one won't let you, or anyone else, get away with that kind of tripe!
Get some extended trigger time and practical experience with a couple of 204's and a couple of lengthy Varmint Safaris and years of use (like I have!) under your belt then your own experience will light a path back to reality for you!
"The 204 won't do anything a 223 won't do"! That is simply one of the stupidest things I have ever seen or heard an adult person utter!
Sheesh!
Long live the wonderful 204 Ruger cartridge!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

The 223 in no way compares to the vastly superior 204 Ruger cartridge - performance wise!

Absolutely spot on there, the 204R is in the 22-250/220 swift league and they may present a fairer comparison, although there are still things the 204 does better.

VG:

Well Dale, let me tell ya.... the way you keep ragging on my being unimpressed with the hype of the 204, I have set money aside to actually order a 204 barrel from ER Shaw, once they get my Ruger's 223 replacement barrel here....

I am going to put it thru its paces... and either your words will prove true, or they won't... but at least I am giving it a try, strictly on your continual championing of the cartridges, I will give its merits a look see...

NOT on marketing hype, but strictly on your defense of the cartridge....

Then I will see once and for all....but I am still sticking to my input, until proven otherwise....

I still think I will look at it as a curiosity more than practical.... and If I want something in that neighborhood, the 19/223 Calhoon sparks my interest more than the 204 Ruger.....

But you don't have to drink the same beer or soda as I do, to still appreciate each others opinions...

If I did go with a 20 caliber, it will be a 20 BR...on a Remington action... and I have an ADL that is cooling its heels here, waiting for a new barrel, in something besides the 243 factory barrel sitting on it now.......

But you will continue to be impressed with it, and the ones that I have shot, ( a Rem and a Savage, and a Ruger) I haven't been real impressed with, trying to see something over my 223s....so far it just hasn't happened...

But I have budgeted for a 204 barrel.. so we will see what happens with that...

and by the way, my favorite 22 caliber is a 22.250, not a 223...

seafire/B17G
Give Blue dot a try!
Good luck with the .204R you might like it you might not but one thing is forcertain you will have fun. 338vt

The original reason for this thread was to obtain reason pro and con for the ligitament existance of the .204 with consderation to all else that is in use and has been in use for some years. It wasn't meant to be a debate over the .223 vs. the .204.

It certainly wasn't meant to start a mean spirited exchange similar to that of a religious or political arguement.

It appears that a whole lot of pontification charged into it rather than proven facts being shared.

For my edification what is the meaning of enhanced lethality when speaking about killing varmints?

Earlier in life I sure wouldn't be doing this on a Friday night. roger

quote:

Originally posted by 338vt:
seafire/B17G
Give Blue dot a try!
Good luck with the .204R you might like it you might not but one thing is forcertain you will have fun. 338vt

From what I have heard, Blue Dot is a NO/NO in a 204 there 338VT.... Ya trying to get me killed there buddy????

I'll give the 204 a legit test and then just sell the barrel......or save it and use it as a pry bar....

I think folks are pretty accurate when they point out “need,†being the operational term in that question. However, new junk does keep us amused/entertained in what could otherwise be a “30-30 World.†I’m still shaking my head over the short magnum craze. Let’s see if I got this right … we bought off on a whole series of new rounds that for all practical purposes replicate tried-and-true performers... except the fit in a small action? Okay, the action may be a bit stiffer and the powder burn a bit more consistent, but are there that many shooters who are proficient enough with their weapon to gain from this? Better yet, the short action benefit in reduced weight is either nominal or non-existent in most production rifles. Would the shooting public buy off on this? … DAMN STRAIGHT! The marketing boys who pulled that one off could sell the Pope a double bed! The advent of these newbies provides boneheads like me (and I bet a lot of others,) the opportunity to buy new dies, brass, bullets and cleaning rods to fiddle with stuff that basically duplicates the performance of our old junk. When all the smoke clears and it’s time to go hunting, I still grab either my 222, 7x57 or 358 … for their intended purposes, they get the job done.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Can someone tell me what nitch this cartridge filled in the real world of fire arms? I enjoyed shooting it as I would any accurate rifle but the need escapes me for the cartridge. roger

Who wants to live in a world where the only things available are the Things we really NEED. Sheesh. Part of the glory of the time and place in which we live is the ability to surround ourselves with stuff we could live without. Some people question things too much.

I went through the same discusion with my wife before I bought my .204. You have a .22 and a .17 hmr and a .223 and a 22-250 Etc why do Need another Varmint Gun. My answer? Need has nothing to do with it, It would be a dreary life indeed if Everything we watched, consumed or bought was an absolute necessity. What are we Monks?
The Irony is the question is probably posted by someone who has a vault of unnecessay guns with overlapping usefullness.


Ricky

quote:

Originally posted by ricky_arthur:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Can someone tell me what nitch this cartridge filled in the real world of fire arms? I enjoyed shooting it as I would any accurate rifle but the need escapes me for the cartridge. roger

Who wants to live in a world where the only things available are the Things we really NEED. Ricky

I guess if I understand you than,Ricky, you are telling me there is no nitch or need just another toy to play with.I can go along with that. Thank you for your comentary. roger

Seafire: I am glad to see you are a mistake maker (human!) with an open mind!
Good for you.
Your ordering the 204 barrel is a "good" and "beneficial" thing!
You WILL be impressed with it.
There is simply no way you can't get wonderful performance from it!
I now have two Hunting friends that are selling off their 22-250's and 220 Swifts to aid in acquiring more 204's! They are so impressed with the 204 they are selling other arms!
Can you imagine?
Right now I am looking across my valley at a large herd of bedded Mule Deer. They are 647 yards from my front door (Leica Lasered). Its snowing lightly and a Fox is romping back and forth Hunting mice about 150 yards in front of them!
I am SO tempted to get my Remington XR-100 in 204 Ruger with its Leupold 8.5x25x40mm scope out and take a crack at this Fox!
I am 50% sure I could bag him!
Three things keep me from doing it though - #1 is the Mule Deer would spook and run off at the shot, #2 is the Fox are just coming back from a mange induced wipe out of their population dating back 4 years now, and #3 there is for the first time in the 9 years I have lived here a herd of 21 Antelope that somehow got through (or over) the "hog fencing" that surrounds all the fields adjacent to my home!
The Antelope have been here for over a month now and I never tire of watching them closeup (sometimes as close a 20 yards!) and I simply don't want to chance scaring them out of the fields.
More and more I am drawn to my various 204 Rifles as the "first choice" when I am tempted to grab just one Rifle for a quick shot or for a quick Hunt!
I am not that easily impressed with "new" cartridges, never have been - I am, impressed, with the 204 Ruger.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy