Why american bullet makers don't produce heavy bullets in 6,5 mm just like the europeans ?

Imagine a NP in 150 grains...

Hornady still makes a 160 grain roundnose.

Most of us have a 30-06 for the heavy bullets. I prefer 100 grain over the 140+ in my 260.

quote:

Originally posted by Lorenzo:
Why american bullet makers don't produce heavy bullets in 6,5 mm just like the europeans ?

Imagine a NP in 150 grains...

It's a good question. I personally don't care if American companies go heavy as long as I can get the superb 155 Lapua Mega.

In two of my 6.5s the Hornady 160 RN. is shooting a tad better than the Norma 156 RN.
Fred Barnes in the early 60s made and tested his 190 gr Original. Can't really remember why but he shelved the project . He and Jack Whitworth also made a lot of 156gr. PSPs.In fact that was one of my absolute favorite hunting bullets in my 6.5 x .284 circa 1966. roger

quote:

Why american bullet makers don't produce heavy bullets in 6,5 mm just like the europeans ?

In parts of Europe there are caliber limits set on ownership and hunting. Since we don't have those limits here in America, if we want a bigger bullet, we get a bigger gun. The US bullet makers are just playing to their primary market. It's my understanding that Nosler will be introducing a 140gr AB this year, up from the 130 they offered in the past.

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:

quote:

Why american bullet makers don't produce heavy bullets in 6,5 mm just like the europeans ?

In parts of Europe there are caliber limits set on ownership and hunting. Since we don't have those limits here in America, if we want a bigger bullet, we get a bigger gun. The US bullet makers are just playing to their primary market. It's my understanding that Nosler will be introducing a 140gr AB this year, up from the 130 they offered in the past.

I'd be sceptical of that, if only because European cartridges have always shot heavy for caliber slugs, beginning with the military rounds.

In thinking back to late 19th & early 20th century rounds, nearly everything was shooting heavy projectiles, no? I would guess that during this time period, european gun laws were much more lax.

Admittedly, this is speculation on my part. I wonder if someone with knowledge could comment.

I think the 140 .264 accubond is just what the Dr. ordered, and I'd love to see an accubond in 7mm that is heavier than 160!

friar

Thanks Gentlemen.

I have not post pictures lately of my hunting but I have been using my 6,5x55 quite a lot and I NOTICED a difference when shooting wild boars with a 140 gr bullet vs a 156 gr bullet.

Maybe it sounds stupid that such a small difference can be noticed but for what I saw the heavy bullets work better.

I hunt two or three times a month year round and I can say that there is a BIG differece. I quit using bigger calibers after I started using the 6,5 - heavy bullets combo.

Down here it is easier to find american bullets than european bullets, that is why I asked. A Partition in 150 or 155 grains must be a dream bullet to hunt wild boars.

L

My question to Europeans on the forum was do the 140 premium [NP, Barnes ] perform as well as the 160 standard bullets . They said yes.
Now you want a premium heavy bullet ?? Give the piggies a chance .

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:

quote:

Why american bullet makers don't produce heavy bullets in 6,5 mm just like the europeans ?

In parts of Europe there are caliber limits set on ownership and hunting. Since we don't have those limits here in America, if we want a bigger bullet, we get a bigger gun. The US bullet makers are just playing to their primary market. It's my understanding that Nosler will be introducing a 140gr AB this year, up from the 130 they offered in the past.

The 140 Accubonds are all ready out, I bought a box a few months ago, but have not shot any. I bought them from Midway I think.

Simple: TWIST

Most U.S. made 6.5 have 1:9 or 1:10 twist barrels. They easily handle up to 140grs spitzers or 160gr RN. You start going above 140gr in a spitzer however and the rifle may or may not handle it.

When I want to go above 140gr in my 6.5-06 I shoot a 270.

Barstooler

As an experiment try the 120gr TSX from Barnes and see how it compares. You'll run out of pig before you run out of penatration.

The difference between a 120-130 grain premium bullet and a 150-160 grain conventional non bonded bullet in .264 is very small.
I have never been satisfied with the conventional non bonded 140 grain bullets in .264.

I prefer to use a light premium high bc bullet in my 6.5x55 and 6.5-06.
I use the 130 grain Scirocco II with the bc of .571 and the 120 grain Barnes Tipped TSX BT with the bc of .443.
Both great bullets.

But a heavy premium bullet is very good for shorter ranges for hitting the animals hard.
The 156 grain Norma Oryx, 150 grain Rhino and 160 grain Woodleigh are all very good choices.

In my experience do they clearly outperform a standard non bonded 180 grain bullet in a 30-06 when it comes to Red deer, European Moose and wild boar.

You need at least a 140gr bullet to be legal at biggame in scandinavia. The scandinavian 156gr 6,5mm bullets are intended for moose, bear and boar.

I guess because Americans as a whole are addicted to the "more is better" philosophy. In this case bullet speed. After all, we all think we can make that 600 yd downhill trophy shot at a mule deer running flat out (him and us ).

quote:

Originally posted by Lorenzo:
Why american bullet makers don't produce heavy bullets in 6,5 mm just like the europeans ?

Imagine a NP in 150 grains...

I think part of it is that Americans are obsessed with velocity. You can only push a 160 grain bullet to around 2500 fps out of a .260 Rem.

The 140 grain is already a heavy-for-caliber bullet, roughly comparable in sectional density to a 200/.30 cal. This means that something like a 160 grainer must have a round nose and thus lose significant ballistic coefficient.

In other words, a 140 grain spitzer will have more energy and momentum than the 160 RN once you get past XX yards. Thus the only time a 160 would offer an advantage is when shots are almost guaranteed to be close.

I don't think that advantage comes to play much closer than 300 yards, maybe 400. I also think the 160 from Nosler is built a little lighter and expands well at the lower intended velocities (not saying the others are too hard). I shoot 140s from my 264 Win Mag and 6.5 x 284. I shoot 160s from my 6.5 x 57 and don't have any significant POI issues compared to lighter bullets.

I would add that its easier (in my gun, anyway) to get the 160 seated close to the lands than the sleeker bullets. I get great accuracy without much ado at all.

I kind of agree with tiggertate. They say if you're shooting 100-200 yards or so that you are wasting your money on high BC boat tailed bullets.

Here in Sweden most people see long shots as unethical (over200m). Shooting at runing game are allowed and that what we practice for.

I hunt pigs at night, 100 % of my shots are under 100 yards. Most of them at 70 yards.

When I use non premium 140 grain bullets was a disaster.

Now I only use 156 grain pulls..

Thanks for the replies.

L

I have a few boxes of the discontinued Sierra 160 grain Semi pointed. Has any one got an experience shooting game with these, and how do you think they compare to the 160 grain Hornady?

quote:

Originally posted by Nordic2:
Here in Sweden most people see long shots as unethical (over200m). Shooting at runing game are allowed and that what we practice for.

Would you go so far as to say that a running shot at 80 meters is easier than a standing broadside shot at 300?

Most modern centerfire cartridges, even those of modest velocity, will only drop about 25cm (or about 10in) at 300 meters if sighted in to be about 6 or 7 cm high (again, about 2.5in) at 100 meters.

If your rifle is set up this way, you can simply hold "center-mass" out to about 200 - 225 meters and not worry about trajectory. For shots out to 300 m, just hold on the spine.

Of the shots I've taken between 200-300 meters at game, I can't think of one I've missed. But I've missed more often than I'd care to admit at 30-70 meters on running game (and I've made some nice shots too at these ranges on running game!).

For my $$$, let the animal stand still!

friar

For me, and many of my friends it's easier to hit a running animal at 80 metres than a standing still animal at 300 metres !!!

Many times we missed the first shot when the animal is still and we hit him once started running.

But we don't hunt at big distances so maybe is just that, we grew up shooting game running away from dogs.

L

When shooting at long distanves you have to know the drop and how to estimate distances. And you get nervous because the animal is just standing "there".

I never zeroed the scope over the target center at 100 meters, we even prefer to zero it a little low at 100 metres.

Because when shooting quickly at running game is esier to miss because of shooting over the animal, you never shoot between the legs or in the grass.

You have just to start shooting infront the animal and nothing more.

L

As has been mentioned, rifling twist, average distances fired at game, and we just like things a bit faster here Another great point that was mentioned, we are VERY blessed here in the USA that we can own more or less as many guns as we can afford (notice I didn't say WANT lol we all want more then we can afford) So there is no reason to have a rifle that can do it all. We'd rather have 5 rifles that can do it all haha. Just kidding, in all seriousness "we" Americans on this board, really are more of the minority among hunters, most DO own just 1 or 2 just, shoot them once at the range to make sure they're "on paper" make a kill and that is it. And saying that, the 6.5 just isn't all that popular outside of the gun-nut circles...so the manufacturers really don't see a need to produce wider ranges of bullets outside of the 270, 7mm and 30 calibers.

You can not imagine how is to live in a place where you can not by bullets, powders, any rifle you want, good scopes, etc

I have to ask people traveling from the States to bring me a couple of bullets boxes, or a scope...

If not, I have to smuggle them through the argentinian border with the risks involved. A few days ago in the papers there was an article about an uruguayan man that was caught smuggling two boxes of 243 ammo and powder for reloading...

I have a special permit that allows me to own rifles with calibers over 6,5 mm but doesn't allow me to hunt with them (I do it antway) and gunshops are not allwed to import anything bigger than 6,5 or any ammo for the bigger calibers. They are not even allowed to import soft point bullets in ANY caliber.

So, or you become a really good smuggler or you have to ask someone from the States to bring you one or two boxes of bullets...but you still to find powder and primers.

Also here in the US, the 6.5's, especially the 260, and the Sweed are consider a woman's or kids gun. The are light recoiling almost guns for people who can't hand a real gun, like a 30.06. A heavy bullet in these calibers would defeat their primary use of being light guns for small framed individuals.

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
Also here in the US, the 6.5's, especially the 260, and the Sweed are consider a woman's or kids gun. The are light recoiling almost guns for people who can't hand a real gun, like a 30.06. A heavy bullet in these calibers would defeat their primary use of being light guns for small framed individuals.

Why you consider in the States a 6,5x55 a kid or woman gun when a 270 with 130 gr bullet is one of the most popular caliber/bullet combo among american hunters ???

They are the same...any recoil difference will depend more on rifle weight than in any other thing.

The Marines go to war with even smaller calibers than the 6,5mm....you consider them kids ??

When the subject of small stature shoots comes up, the discussion invariably turns to short actions, under .30 caliber. This leads the discussion to rifles like the Remington model 7, and caliber like the 7mm-08, 260 Remington, and the .243 win. The 6.5 sweed will then get lumped in with these shorter then standard, under .30 cal, non-magnum rifles.

As you mention, the .270 Win is ballistically similar to the 7mm-08, 260, and 6.5x55, but since the action is 1/2" longer it makes it ok for a man to shoot it.

Personally, I think .270 is a great rifle for just about anyone, and if you want a compact light recoiling rifle, the .308 with a 125gr bullet is a great choice, but for some reason the american consensues is that the person who can't handle a .308 with a 125gr bullet is better off with a 7mm-08 and a 140gr bullet.

Some us forces are using the 6.8 SPC. It's actually the same caliber as the .270 Win.
Chamber it in a black Semi or Full auto, and it's a war fighting round.
Put it in a bolt rifle, and since it's under .30 cal and shorter then standard length, now it's a kids gun.


Yea, sometimes us yanks can be a little funny.

The 6,5x55 is not a short action cartdrige....use the same action length than a 30-06...

Anyhow, doesn't matter. I believe is one of the best cartdriges ever developed and I have never noticed any killing difference with bigger calibers when hunting pigs.

But I must admit that when I go hunting for red stags I never carry anything smaller than a 30-06 !!

Lorenzo, I believe the action on the old Sweedish Mausers was just a hair shorter then the Springfield.

I aslo own a 6.5x55 Sweedish Mauser, and it's not my wife, It's mine.

I agree with you that they are a great, caretridge that's under rated here in the states. I was just hoping to actually expain the psychology behind that perception.

Ever since I started hunting 30 years ago I've always used a .30-06. About 3 years ago I bought a CZ550 in 6.5x55 and I have taken 2 nice mule deer bucks with it. The 6.5 is easier to shoot and kills just as dead.

I haven't had a chance to shoot them yet but I bought a box of Norma 156 grain Alaska ammo. I wanted the bullets but they were back ordered so I got the ammo instead. My thought on the 156 grain was for Elk. This next year I'm going to work up a good load for a heavy swede load and if I draw an Elk permit I'm going to use the 156 grain alaska bullets. If I can't get closer than 150 yards I don't shoot anyway so the swede should be a great cartridge for elk.

Lorenzo,


Unfortunately, there is just a bit of a "macho" feeling about guns here, along with more is better. So, the .243, 25-06 (often times the .270)and such, are considered "starting" calibers before you are "man enough" to step up to the standard, better known as the 30-06. Although many who are young dumb and full of piss and vinegar want more then dad's 06 and go right for the 7mm and 300 mags.

It isn't logical, but hey, that is America haha