I'm think of getting one of these for my regular trips hunting Fallow deer.

The most I'll shoot out to will be a fraction over 200m, probably, and want to increase my success on neck shots at closer range. Frequently shots are up/down hill at 45 degree slopes.

My question is - how much - on a hunting/practical level - do I lose with a shorter 18.9 inch carbine barrel versus a 22-24 inch barrel?

Cheers guys.

Mine is a .223 and I haven't chrono'd it against a longer barreled rifle so I can't help you if your asking about velocity. Accuracy wise mine shoots like a varmint rifle. It will put them all in a cloverleaf at 100 yards.

Also the barrel twist is supposed to be 1 turn in 14" but mine does just fine with bullets as long as the Sierra 65gr SPBT.

With a good scope you should be death on small deer.

I have a CZ 527 in 7.62x39 with the 18.5" barrel.

The 123 grain and 125 grain .311" bullets with a solid load pushing it run 2,275 to 2,300 fps over my chronograph depending on the load/bullet (Winchester and Sierra SP). That is a 100 or 150 fps loss in the 18.5" from what you might see in a 22" or 24" barrel according to QuickLOAD. The 150 grain .311" (Speer SP) bullets I shot run 2,050 fps. I doubt they will open at that speed though. I tried some .308" bullets (110 Vmax) and they shot both surprisingly well and also quite fast at 2525 fps.

I would say if you can get a .308" 125 grain to shoot, and they should based on what I saw with the Vmax. you might be running closer to 2,350 fps in the 18.5" barrel due to the reduced friction from the under sized bullet. You won't lose as much in velocity that way, and you even pick up a hair (admittedly a very tiny hair) of SD along the way with the smaller diameter bullet. I might try that soon myself and see.

The good news is the 527 shoots decently well or at least mine does. I bedded mine and made sure the rear sight "barrel band" was not touching the stock by relieving the wood there. It shoots silly little sub 1" 5 shot groups @ 100 yards in the 0.7" range with either Lapua or the small primer Remington brass. The scope is a 1.5-5x VX III Leupold with the heavy reticle so I can see it in thick brush. I could probably squeeze more accuracy out of it with a thinner reticle but under 1" is more than fine at the ranges I will shoot it at.

The bad news on the CZ 527 is that some people don't care for the external magazine, the safety has reverse direction (back and down for off), and the standard stock also has a lot of drop to it for scope use. You simply have to get used to the stock or put a pad on it. The safety also takes some getting used to but I have enough 527's it doesn't phase me. I doubt anyone is going to use that round for dangerous game anyhow. For me the neat thing with that external magazine people dislike is that you can have a separate magazine loaded with different bullets and switch out with a push of the button.

The magazine also makes it fun to just flat out shoot a bunch of rounds through it. One thing to note, if you want to blast cheap import ammo in it is most of the Russian 7.62x39 has very hard primers to protect against the slap of the floating firing pins on the SKS and AK series. The CZ out of the box will not fire on all of those rounds. You can order a more powerful firing pin from CZ for that reason. You will have no problem whatsoever with non military commercial factory rounds. With so little powder in that bore size that barrel will last a long, long time. A 30BR case has a tiny bit more powder than a 7.62x39 case, and they are competitive in scoring benchrest past 6k rounds.

Overall I think for me it is a 150 yard deer round as it drops below 1,000 ft/pounds of energy around that point. Out at 200 meters (~220 yards) it is down to 750 ft/pounds of energy which may or may not work for you. It would work well for foxes and coyotes out at that range and beyond of course. It does quite a number on small varmints with those 110 Vmax .308" bullets but too much of a bump for a dedicated all day varmint gun.

People who know more and write better than I, have said that it makes a very good ranch or truck gun. I can only think to agree with that statement.

I was plesantly surprised with my 527 in 7.62x39. I had it bedded by a professional, and it's very accurate. I don't know if the bedding was an improvment or not since I didn't shoot it before. I have had similar experience as webfeet, and agree with everything he said, except that for me the range limit is real close to 100 yards. The cartridge is just to low in energy and sectional density, but I think it a great improvement for deer compared to a 223. You have to pick your shots at any range, and I'm afraid the failure rate will be noticably higher than more suitable cartridges. But I like to shoot mine, and shoot it often at targets, and even take it rabbit hunting. I've killed deer with it with careful neck and head shots, but lost one hog with a 125 yard shot neck shot. It's a fun rifle, and a good value.

I have not yet tried .308 bullets, but it is good to hear that they have possibilities. Given the range limitations anyway, I think maybe the 150 bullets for the 30-30 may work well, since they are sure to open up. I may try some and see for myself.

KB

Here is a picture of a buck I took with my CZ 527 in 7.62x39. I was using handloads with Hornady .311 diameter 150 grain bullets. The range was close to 200 yards.

I'd imagine that it would make little difference if the bullet expanded with the (lucky?) shot placement, but as the picture of the exit wound shows, the exit hole was the size of a dime. The deer went 25 yards before expiring.

BTW, I only shot the deer at that long range because I mistakenly thought I had hit it at a closer distance... but it's hard to complain with success.

The CZ action is much stronger than the AK stuff. I've not my ammo very hot, but even fudging a bit, my primers are far from flat and cases are reloadable more times than I can keep track of them.

The rifle shoots Winchester 123 grain SP factory loads and the handloads above well less than .75".

Thanks for posting the picture of that nice buck. Your experience inspires confidence in the 7.62x39 as a deer cartridge. I really think the 150 gr bullet is the ticket, and as you say the action is strong enough to load them to full potential, with the correct powder. What powder are you using? I've got a large supply of AA 2460, which may be a good choice.

I'll bet that the meat damage was minimal even though it was in the shoulder. I'm also impressed that it went all the way through the deer at that range.

I've thought about trying some of the Barnes 150 gr .310 bullets and taking a flash hole reamer, such as made by Lyman I think, and reaming the hollow point hole out a little on each bullet, then weighing each bullet for uniform weight before loading. The reason being to get it to open very easily. With the Barnes of course weight retention and penetration will not be the issue. Opening up would obviously be better than it acting like a solid.

KB

I've got to check at the office for the load data and will try to remember to do that on Monday.

If you want to use a Barnes bullet, I just looked at the website and they sell a 123 grain in .310 diameter. I think I'd try that first.

BTW, I have a Leupold 1.5x6 scope on the rilfe (the short model). I find it to be just perfect.

Lad,

Here in the U.P. we have large bodied white tails. The one I shot last year field dressed at over 130#. She was a yearling doe.

Actual hunting ranges here are very close - rarely farther than 75yds. My 100yd groups w/Sellier and Bellot 7.62X39 ammo were 1.5" and provide great confidence for shorter shots. The deer dropped on the spot.

The shot was on a slight rise and angled up breaking the spine, the resulting shrappnel shredded the major blood vessels. Didn't recover much of the bullet... that's OK, got all the meat!!

NOTE: Thanks to those who mentioned the high brissance of military round primers - explains my failures to fire. Does anyone have a source for the stronger spring, this might solve some of my problems ALSO: If you reload, you might wish to ensure that the cases are trimmed to 1.520" and the bullet doesn't contact the lands. I had trouble with my 527 carbine not chambering over-long shells. Quite the quandry. I now "custom" load every round - may seem time consuming but the results of a loud BANG are more desirable than a muted "click".

With reliable loads, the 527 carbine in 7.62 is my "go to" gun for "swampin'" after U.P. bucks. Accurate, portable and powerful enough for the game. With the set trigger, it should greatly assist in success on longer shots at game.

Best of luck, and shoot well!!

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by bullterrier:
I'm think of getting one of these for my regular trips hunting Fallow deer.

The most I'll shoot out to will be a fraction over 200m, probably, and want to increase my success on neck shots at closer range. Frequently shots are up/down hill at 45 degree slopes.

My question is - how much - on a hunting/practical level - do I lose with a shorter 18.9 inch carbine barrel versus a 22-24 inch barrel?

Cheers guys.

Mine's a 7.62X39mm, and I get 2300 FPS from a 150-grain bullet and 31.5 grains of H335. It also puts three rounds almost thru the same hole at 100 yards. And this with .308" bullets, too.

Michael Glass - Contact CZ-USA and tell them your issue with the primer ignition on the import rounds. They should send you either a new spring or simply a new firing pin assembly. They have done this in the past for people who have requested it. It is a known issue with the 527. There are some Berdan primer, laquered steel case Russian import rounds do work without issue. I found some Silver Bear SP 7.62x39 that both shot without issue and were very accurate.

El Deguello - I am happy to hear you found increased speed from using the undersized .308" 150 grain bullets. That matches my finding with the .308" Vmax I tried. Based on your H335 usage I will try a slower powder than what I have been using (Reloader 7x, Reloader 10x, H322, and AA 1680). The extruded ones really fill up the case with the heavier bullets.

For those of you who are not getting consistent MOA or less groups at 100 yards and you wanted to tighten the groups up, you might try the following:

Relieve the stock directly around the rear sight bump. That bump may be in contact and throwing things off. Make sure to seal the wood afterwards where it was exposed. A very simple bedding job of might help things as well. All the other wood stock 527's have a couple drops of some type of bedding epoxy right at the recoil lug. My carbine didn't have any there and it just sat on wood. There wasn't much contact from what I could see from the imprint pattern. I also didn't trust the wood to not compress when I tightened up the action screws so I bedded it.

Lastly make sure your scope mount base screws are nice and tight. This is a pretty obvious thing to check and all of my 527's mount screws are torqued to 65 inch pounds as per the factory recommendation. I think that is good deal tighter than most people expect for non tactical usage. This is the base screw pair not the eight ring screws BTW. Please don't come back and say you tried to crank 65 inch pounds on the ring screws and crushed your scope tube.

I have no reason to believe that you can't get yours to shoot well as there are so many stories of them shooting well. It may just take a bit of work either bedding the stock or with different loads.

The Czech rifles are fine but not as good as what we produce here in Germany.

quote:

Originally posted by Alpinejaeger:
The Czech rifles are fine but not as good as what we produce here in Germany.

The CZ's don't cost as much either. But you get what you pay for..... Everyone would like the Mausers or Heyms!