I just got the new American Rifleman and they did and article on loading the .204. They were shooting it out of the new Remington XR-100.

A few things stuck me:
-Factory loadings of the .204 were over 1"
-the target in the picture didn't seem THAT impressive. They claimed sub MOA, but it seemed each group had a "flier" or two.
-the throat on the XR-100 was long. Since this is a single shot, this suprised me. On my .308 Rem. VLS, I can load OAL to 2.92. People have told me this is in spec. Do Remingtons usually have longer throats? I'd assume this is for hunting purposes, but it seemed a bit odd for a single shot.

I'd like to hear anyone's comments about this article as I was looking at the XR-100 in .223, but was still sort of intrigued by the .204.

beats me, but I got one on order. basically as i get it this is a poor mans 40xb. the barrel isn't lapped, the lugs aren't trued etc. that the 40x had done to it. Still if i need to do all that stuff it isn't that expensive and I get a new toy out of it. After all it is winter and one does need new toys in winter (just ask santa)

I find just about all the new rifles in recent years have very long chambers. I don't worry much about the chamber length since most of my firing is at the range, and I load single shot anyway so exceeding the magazine length isn't an issue. For what it's worth my last three new Remingtons have all required glass bedding, barrel floating and trigger work to shoot like I expect them to ($250.). I've now decided to switch to Savage. They're a lot less expensive to begin with, and I just might be able to avoid some of the post purchase costs. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

My brother just bought a brand new Remington VLS. Biggest piece of overprice crap I've ever seen. Its a 204 ruger. We took it and my Savage VLP 204 out last week to the range and I started looking at the gun while he's buying some ear muffs. I looked down the bore and it looks like some blind drunk took a grinder to the crown. The bore was extremely rough and the rifling looked uneven. The free-floated barrel was almost touching the right side of the stock with a huge gap on the left side. Well I didnt say anything to him.We started shooting. After his first shot he lifts the bolt to extract the fired case and wala the case stays in the chamber. I push the fired case out with my cleaning rod and look to see what happened. To his surprise, THE GUN HAD NO EXTRACTOR!. At that point I pointed out the other problems I noted earlier. He's pissed. He gets on his cell phone and burns a call to Remington. All he got was the run around and absolutly no help from customer service. Long story short. He takes the gun to my gunsmith and after installing an extractor, recrowning the barrel, and buying a new after market stock. He now has a rifle which at its best will shoot 2 inch groups at 100 yards. Remington used to make really good guns and the 700 action is well designed and proven but I will never buy another Remington again and I will never advise anyone to by one. Remington SUCKS.
Buy Savage.

I guess this is why so many of us go to custom rifles that a good gunsmith works the bugs out of. I guy at work here picked up a 243WSSM savage 2 days ago and the extractor was marked for 300 win mag and of course would work. My bad luck came with a searcy double. I think maybe everybody has these problems sooner or latter. Sad, and maybe souldn't happen, but there is the real world out there and we're all in it. It sure is nice to have this forum so we can all benefit from the experiences of others.

Well, I could talk about my VLS groups of just over .5 at 200 or .255 at 100.

The only thing "custom" was a 3lb trigger job.

I was going to wait on the xr-100 but stumbled upon a new cooper varminter. It's floated, trigger is awesome, wood is beautiful, perfect point checkering, and it's not too darn heavy for a varminter. The test target is ofcourse a one holer about 22 cal in size. I think i'm gonna luv this gun.

quote:

Originally posted by halvey:
Well, I could talk about my VLS groups of just over .5 at 200 or .255 at 100.

The only thing "custom" was a 3lb trigger job.

You are lucky my friend, real lucky.
Remington sucks.

Yeah. And the half dozen guys I shoot with are lucky too. Shill for Savage - which makes some fine guns - if you want.

Quit pissing on the thread.

My Remington VLS in 6mm Rem. also shoots in the .4"s (5 at 100yds). Am I happy with it? Hell no I'm not. It's a heavy barreled varmint gun with a 26" barrel. It should shoot that well, and I shouldn't have to spend an extra $250. for glass bedding, barrel floating and trigger work to get it to shoot in the .4"s. Maybe Remington should advertise them as 'kits'. Sorry, but it's really a sore spot with me. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
beats me, but I got one on order. basically as i get it this is a poor mans 40xb. the barrel isn't lapped, the lugs aren't trued etc. that the 40x had done to it. Still if i need to do all that stuff it isn't that expensive and I get a new toy out of it. After all it is winter and one does need new toys in winter (just ask santa)

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
beats me, but I got one on order. basically as i get it this is a poor mans 40xb. the barrel isn't lapped, the lugs aren't trued etc. that the 40x had done to it. Still if i need to do all that stuff it isn't that expensive and I get a new toy out of it. After all it is winter and one does need new toys in winter (just ask santa)

Quote on the XR100, I have 2 on order with a wholesaler. Too bad the "GOHPER SHOOTERS SUPPLY" isn't in Faribault anymore. Dean Purdie always kept a fellow shooter stocked up on the latest from Remington. To me he was a super fellow. I sent lots of hard earned dollars to him some yrs ago.

As of yet, the Rangemaster still has the $50.00 rebate from Remington on it, so this would help in the price of it somewhat. I am mainly after the action and trigger. If the barrel isn't up to par, Pac-Nor is still in business. I would feel more comfortable with a SS from a major barrel maker in the XR100 anyway. My .02 cents

SwKs,
I would be interested to know what the going rate for that XR100. I think Rem has msrp of $800 plus.

I've got 10 Remington 700's in various calibers dating from 1968 to 2003. I will not buy another new Remington. The older Remingtons that I have, say pre-1990 or so, all shoot awesome and have decent chambers and throats. The newer ones have throats a mile long which is not at all conducive to accuracy.

I've got a 1968 Remington 700 BDL in 7MM Mag, wood stock and factory barrel, which will shoot circles around a 1990's Sendero in the same caliber. The Sendero shoots okay, but bullets are seated WAY out there to get decent accuracy.

I've rebarrelled two of my Remington's with aftermarket barrels and custom chambers. They shoot incredible groups. Remington actions are quite good when set up right (ask the long-range/benchrest crowd) but lately their barrels and chambers stink.

I have a Savage 12BVSS, the last new bolt action I bought, and am amazed by the groups it shoots. It is .223 Rem and will shoot ragged one hole groups at 100 yards with just about anything you can put in it. At my most recent shooting, I shot a 2.5" five shot group at 400 yards with 75 grain Hornady Match bullet handloads. The Savage has nothing done to it except for adjusting the Accu-trigger down to its minimum setting. Accuracy usually comes down to barrel and chamber quality. Lately, Savage is beating Remington hands down for overall accuracy. Many guys at my club are shooting them over Remingtons.

Remingtons can shoot well and sometimes, like some of the other posters here, you'll get lucky and get a good one. I love Remington 700s but will not buy another new one. I'll simply rebarrel what I have. It's really a shame as Remington was formerly known for great accuracy and high quality.

My 2 cents.

I read the article too. Makes me wonder how Remington is still in business.

I was at the range yesterday and there was a guy there with a brand new bone stock Savage 110 bolt gun in 308. Black synthetic stock, reg SS barrel, accu-trigger, not the top-of-the-line, but a decent gun. He had a $250 scope on it.

With Remington yellow-box core-lokt ammo he had several groups (5-6) that had 5-shots in one ragged hole at 100 yards. Sub MOA.

He said the reason he bought this gun was he has one in .223 that shoots even better. It puts 5 shots in ONE hole at 100 yards.

Like I said, makes me wonder how Remington stays in business...

P.S.
I agree with GLC. The OLD Remingtons WERE shooters (70's and before), the newer ones are not.

I inadvertantly left out the non- in the "regular non-SS barrel" on the first post. This gun sells for $329 everyday with an el cheapo scope on it.

quote:

P.S.
I agree with GLC. The OLD Remingtons WERE shooters (70's and before), the newer ones are not.

Nothing like using a broad brush, when you needed a trim one. Savages are way improved, no doubt, but many Remingtons still shoot great "out of the box". Since one example works for you, a friend brought out a new 700 Classic in 7-08 (made in 2001); after scope adjust, two 5 shot groups both were under 3/4", one near 1/2". This using Rem green box factory ammo.
More examples available on request

I Couldn't get my savage .223 to shoot anything under 2". Traded it for a vls and average between .5" and .75" with many sub .5" groups depending on the wind.

quote:

Originally posted by Oscar Makonka:
I Couldn't get my savage .223 to shoot anything under 2". Traded it for a vls and average between .5" and .75" with many sub .5" groups depending on the wind.

You are in the minority my friend.

I own Remingtons and I think they are overpriced compared to other makes. I would not buy a new Remington, no matter how "lucky" you are with yours.

Well Flippy, I bought 4 new remingtons in the last 2 years and can't complain about how any of them shoot. I've only had one remington out of many that was a dud. Not all remingtons are bad, I find most of them shoot quite well. I know the vast majority of savage guns are very accurate but once in a while they too can produce a bummer.

Woops, double posted

Regarding new Remingtons shooting well, all knowing, all seeing Flippy said:

quote:

You are in the minority my friend.

And you know this how? Polled a few thousand Rem owners???

halvey, Welcome to the forum! Now about the long throat in the .204......normal for everybody producing them!! I got the first SAVAGE VLP in VA last spring and to load to the lands would be 2.410.....factory loading is 2.245!!!! Every one I have seen, Savage, Remington, Ruger has a long throat....I was told it hd something to do with pressures and the fact that the manufacturers figured this round was going to eventually show up in the "black guns" .......for whatever that has to do with the price of eggs in China!!!
Now as to the Remingtons not shooting....I guess the VLS 6mm I own ought to be sent back to the factory! It won't do better than .227/100yards with 87 grain VMaxs!!!! OUT OF THE BOX WITH MY TRIGGER JOB!!! And just yesterday I was breaking in a Sendero in 300SAUM using 125 grain Speer TNT's.....during break-in it did .396 and .570/100 yards using thse bullets......might need to send it back....uh-oh....can't do that!! I voided the warranty by adjusting the trigger down to a SAFE 24 oz!!! I also had a Sendero in 25-06 to test for a friend....uncatalogued little number, matte-fluted barrel.....it would only do .135"/100 using the first load the guy tried in it!!! I guess Remington has really gone to hell in a handbasket!!!! GHD

quote:

Originally posted by Mulerider:
Regarding new Remington’s shooting well, all knowing, all seeing Flippy said:

quote:

You are in the minority my friend.

And you know this how? Polled a few thousand Rem owners???

Not actually polled them, however I have worked in a gun store for the past 2 1/2 years and have been an avid shooter for 15+, which is probably not as long as some of you.
Doing something longer just makes you older, not necessarily wiser.

Out of the hundreds of customers that have come into my shop the last 2+ years, the majority (opposite of minority for those of you statistically challenged) feel that Remington OVERALL is priced higher than the accuracy of their products warrant.

You may get 60% of them to shoot well out of the box, heavy on the MAY. Probably more like half.

However, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, 100%, WILL COST MORE THAN A SAVAGE OF THE SAME CONFIGURATION. And you have AT LEAST the same "chance" of the Savage being accurate. So if it costs more it should only MAYBE be more accurate?

You may find a better deal if a wholesaler has Rem's on sale, but day to day dollar to dollar, they cost more.

So to answer your question, the MAJORITY of people I talk to feel Remington's are overpriced for the accuracy. There are TOO MANY PEOPLE on these forums saying the same.

Maybe I should start a poll on these forums addressing the overpriced Remington's, then we'll see.

Or better yet, YOU start a poll and YOU will see.

Just because something costs more doesn't guarantee ANYTHING. Except YOU will have less money, and THEY will have more...

quote:

Originally posted by Mulerider:

quote:

P.S.
I agree with GLC. The OLD Remingtons WERE shooters (70's and before), the newer ones are not.

Nothing like using a broad brush, when you needed a trim one. Savages are way improved, no doubt, but many Remingtons still shoot great "out of the box". Since one example works for you, a friend brought out a new 700 Classic in 7-08 (made in 2001); after scope adjust, two 5 shot groups both were under 3/4", one near 1/2". This using Rem green box factory ammo.
More examples available on request

What exactly does MANY mean?

Which ones are they so IF I decide to buy one, I don't accidently buy the WRONG one.

How much did your friend's Remington cost new? I bet it would cost more than $300 now, the price of the Savage that was out at the range last Sunday.
JUST ONE EXAMPLE OF MANY.

quote:

I was at the range yesterday (Sunday) and there was a guy there with a brand new bone stock Savage 110 bolt gun in 308. Black synthetic stock, reg non-SS barrel, accu-trigger, not the top-of-the-line, but a decent gun. He had a $250 scope on it.

With Remington (green and yellow)
yellow-box core-lokt ammo he had several groups (5-6) that had 5-shots in one ragged hole at 100 yards. Sub MOA.

He said the reason he bought this gun was he has one in .223 that shoots even better. It puts 5 shots in ONE hole at 100 yards.

Like I said, makes me wonder how Remington stays in business...

I OWN REMINGTONS. However, if they keep overcharging people for their products, it won't matter what anybody thinks.
The gig is up.

I inadvertantly left out the non- in the "regular non-SS barrel" on the first post. This gun sells for $329 everyday with an el cheapo scope on it.

[QUOTE]I was at the range yesterday (Sunday) and there was a guy there with a brand new bone stock Savage 110 bolt gun in 308. Black synthetic stock, reg SS barrel, accu-trigger, not the top-of-the-line, but a decent gun. He had a $250 scope on it.I bet it (the Rem)would cost more than $300 now, the price of the Savage that was out at the range last Sunday."

A stainless barrel, Accu-trigger Savage for $300? Where? One of those "special wholesaler deals"? I'll recommend that deal to anyone wanting a 308....
And your argument/opinion keeps changing....first it was Rems were inaccurate...and poorly made; now they just cost too much...geez. Sounds like the Ford vs Chevy debates!
And an open poll on an Internet forum...wow, those numbers would be as statistically meaningless as....any other Internet poll!

Ya, but shooting savages is like dating fat girls, they can be a lot of fun but you don't want to be seen with one .

quote:

Originally posted by Mulerider:

quote:

I was at the range yesterday (Sunday) and there was a guy there with a brand new bone stock Savage 110 bolt gun in 308. Black synthetic stock, reg SS barrel, accu-trigger, not the top-of-the-line, but a decent gun. He had a $250 scope on it.I bet it (the Rem)would cost more than $300 now, the price of the Savage that was out at the range last Sunday."

A stainless barrel, Accu-trigger Savage for $300? Where? One of those "special wholesaler deals"? I'll recommend that deal to anyone wanting a 308....
And your argument/opinion keeps changing....first it was Rems were inaccurate...and poorly made; now they just cost too much...geez. Sounds like the Ford vs Chevy debates!
And an open poll on an Internet forum...wow, those numbers would be as statistically meaningless as....any other Internet poll!

Sorry, the gun had a regular non-SS barrel, I will FIX THAT in my post.

I inadvertantly left out the non- in the "regular non-SS barrel" on the first post. This gun sells for $329 everyday with an el cheapo scope on it.

MY agument with Remington rifles has always been and will stay the same. Remingtons cost more than they should for the accuracy. If you are going to charge more for a rifle it should shoot better, and be better made. Period.

Savages may be ugly in your opinion, but you can get a decent looking Savage for less money than a comparable Remington. (Go out and look, Savage makes more than black plastic stocks.) AND the Savage will probably shoot AT LEAST AS WELL.

Again, like I have said before:

Animals don't "fall down dead" when you pull out that fancy, expensive rifle.
First you actually gotta shoot 'em!

quote:

Originally posted by Cal Sibley:
My Remington VLS in 6mm Rem. also shoots in the .4"s (5 at 100yds). Am I happy with it? Hell no I'm not. It's a heavy barreled varmint gun with a 26" barrel. It should shoot that well, and I shouldn't have to spend an extra $250. for glass bedding, barrel floating and trigger work to get it to shoot in the .4"s. Maybe Remington should advertise them as 'kits'. Sorry, but it's really a sore spot with me. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Yep!

quote:

Originally posted by Oscar Makonka:
Ya, but shooting savages is like dating fat girls, they can be a lot of fun but you don't want to be seen with one .

If your self-esteem is to the point you have to buy an expensive rifle to feel good, I feel sorry for you.

I love showing guys (like you?) with expensive rifles the advantages of a "CHEAP" rifle that shoots!

Flippy, you would make a great politician. Your statistics change routinely, you "quote" things never said, and make unproveable claims.
Not very informative, but at least entertaining!

Please quote the model number of the Sav package deal, that includes Accutrigger and scope, that sells for $329, and who sells them for that amount (your gun store?). I would like one!

quote:

Originally posted by Mulerider:
Flippy, you would make a great politician. Your statistics change routinely, you "quote" things never said, and make unproveable claims.
Not very informative, but at least entertaining!

What have I EVER "quoted" that wasn't said?

EVERY CLAIM ON EVERY FORUM IS VIRTUALLY UNPROVEABLE, UNLESS YOU WERE THERE WHEN IT HAPPENED. MY best advice to you is GET OVER IT.

What statistics changed?

As for politics, no thanks. My constituants would probably end up being people like you.

quote:

Originally posted by Mulerider:
Please quote the model number of the Sav package deal, that includes Accutrigger and scope, that sells for $329, and who sells them for that amount (your gun store?). I would like one!

Savage 116FSSX3 @ BI-MART.

They told me they were $329 regular price.
They were on sale for $329.
Regular price is $379-389 depending on caliber.

And yes, it WAS a special wholesaler deal.

You make the case for your insignificance better than I ever could.
Keep posting...I enjoy the un-intended humor.

The best forums involve guys who speak of their personal experience, not the "I heard/read/imagined/deduced" knowledge.

Keeps ya young not to get worked up over someone else spending their money how they see fit.

I was at the range yesterday and there was a guy there with a brand new bone stock Savage 110 bolt gun in 308. Black synthetic stock, reg SS barrel, accu-trigger, not the top-of-the-line, but a decent gun. He had a $250 scope on it.

With Remington yellow-box core-lokt ammo he had several groups (5-6) that had 5-shots in one ragged hole at 100 yards. Sub MOA.

He said the reason he bought this gun was he has one in .223 that shoots even better. It puts 5 shots in ONE hole at 100 yards.
________________________________________________

I presume this shooter is an avid benchrest shooter with a rifle/rifles that shoot this good.

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:

quote:

Originally posted by Oscar Makonka:
Ya, but shooting savages is like dating fat girls, they can be a lot of fun but you don't want to be seen with one .

If your self-esteem is to the point you have to buy an expensive rifle to feel good, I feel sorry for you.

I love showing guys (like you?) with expensive rifles the advantages of a "CHEAP" rifle that shoots!

Aw, thanks for considering my self esteem
it's just fine. I sometimes go to the range withguns that the black plastic savage owners laugh at and my self esteem isn't even traumatized. I love it when someone shows up at an event with some old clunker and beats the pants off of everyone else.

quote:

Originally posted by Oscar Makonka:

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:

quote:

Originally posted by Oscar Makonka:
Ya, but shooting savages is like dating fat girls, they can be a lot of fun but you don't want to be seen with one .

If your self-esteem is to the point you have to buy an expensive rifle to feel good, I feel sorry for you.

I love showing guys (like you?) with expensive rifles the advantages of a "CHEAP" rifle that shoots!

Aw, thanks for considering my self esteem
it's just fine. I sometimes go to the range withguns that the black plastic savage owners laugh at and my self esteem isn't even traumatized. I love it when someone shows up at an event with some old clunker and beats the pants off of everyone else.

Me too. Maybe we are not that different...
Scary...

quote:

Originally posted by SwKs:
I was at the range yesterday and there was a guy there with a brand new bone stock Savage 110 bolt gun in 308. Black synthetic stock, reg SS barrel, accu-trigger, not the top-of-the-line, but a decent gun. He had a $250 scope on it.

With Remington yellow-box core-lokt ammo he had several groups (5-6) that had 5-shots in one ragged hole at 100 yards. Sub MOA.

He said the reason he bought this gun was he has one in .223 that shoots even better. It puts 5 shots in ONE hole at 100 yards.
________________________________________________

I presume this shooter is an avid benchrest shooter with a rifle/rifles that shoot this good.

Nope. Just a guy with a new toy. Took it to the range, boresighted it and BOOM!

He hadn't shot it before Sunday.

He hadn't even adjusted the accu-trigger yet...

I to bought the 329.00 package deal on a savage model 11 in .204 ruger, I wanted to try the accu-trigger and the .204 so thought what the hell savages are getting alotta hype on their accuracy, took her home adjusted the trigger down to 2.5 lbs and put her on the bench with 32 and 40 gn v-maxes and the 5 shot groups from the 40's were covered with a quarter. i couldn't
believe my eye balls, that the cheapest set up I own shoots better than anything i have in the safe.

quote:

Originally posted by Brent Duvall:
I to bought the 329.00 package deal on a savage model 11 in .204 ruger, I wanted to try the accu-trigger and the .204 so thought what the hell savages are getting alotta hype on their accuracy, took her home adjusted the trigger down to 2.5 lbs and put her on the bench with 32 and 40 gn v-maxes and the 5 shot groups from the 40's were covered with a quarter. i couldn't
believe my eye balls, that the cheapest set up I own shoots better than anything i have in the safe.

Yep!

I forgot, i did replace the Simmons scope, with a vari-XII 4X12 leupold target dot and Rifleman rings and bases.