Gentlemen

Has any one developed a beltless magnum?
This is a caliber that's intrigued me for 25 years, but avoided because of the barrel erosion problem and I just don't like belted calibers.
Jim

I would really recomend that you look closely at the 6.5/284. It's performance is quite amazing, and with something like the 130 Sirrocco...

quote:

Originally posted by arkypete:
Gentlemen

Has any one developed a beltless magnum?
This is a caliber that's intrigued me for 25 years, but avoided because of the barrel erosion problem and I just don't like belted calibers.
Jim

Yes and no. 6,5X63 Messner is based on the 9,3X64 Brenneke case.

Cheers
/JOHAN

I would ask you to explain your problem with belted cartridges, but that's like asking a person to explain his prejudices regarding blondes and brunettes.

Let's just say that if you don't care for the factory version of the .264 Winchester Magnum, then you can get within about 100 fps of it with a 6.5/06 Improved. Of course you could use the Dakota proprietary case if you wanted an '06-length non-belted magnum, or the RUM case if you wanted an H&H-length non-belted magnum, but neither would provide you any significant gain in velocity over the factory .264 Win.

My advice is to ignore the belt on the .264 and load it like what it is: A rimless bottleneck cartridge that should headspace snugly on the shoulder.

Throat erosion is only an issue in a bench or varmint rifle. A magnum 6.5 is a hunting rifle and will last more than your lifetime in any event. I have a Sako .264 that turned 40 last year and was the only hunting rifle I owned for its first 20 years of life. It's had plenty of rounds through it in that time, including some very injudicious handloads cooked up by an testosterone-laden teenager, and its accuracy is essentially the same as when it was new -- very good. I now shoot nothing through it but 140 Noslers at 3150 fps. You'll have to use an exceedingly slow burning powder to achieve that velocity at acceptable pressures. Hint: H-1000 and IMR-7828 ARE NOT exceedlingly slow burning.

The suggestion to look to the .284 case is a very good one. The WSM cases are also very good for the 6.5 MM.

The 6.5-06 is also an extremely good round and won't be beat much by larger cases.

If you're really into burning powder, The 375 Ruger case may be just what you wished for.

Schuler developed the 6.5 x 68 but its not popular.
Link to 6.5-68

I share your dislike of belted bottlenecked cartridges but I deal with them.

Long ago I had a Mauser with a 26" freebored barrel twisted 1-12 chambered for the 264 WM. I used it for long range varminting but never got more out of it than I could with a 243 in terms of actually hitting something. Perhaps if I had a better recoil pad and ear protection I might have. That gun makes a lot of noise on someone elses farm.

I still have a 264 WM. This one is a Westerner and it's very accurate. I load it with 120 Ballistic Tips for long range varmints like the last one.

Truth is that other cartridges will make about the same results. Unless one needs the light bullet at high velocity for richocet reduction I would look at the 270's and 7mm's etc. if extreme performance is wanted on 'big' game.

These days I have gravitated to a 270 WSM in a Kimber Montana if I have to carry the rifle very high or far. Otherwise get what you want as thats the fun of guns.

I have a 6.5x284 which shoots great. The guys over at shortmags.org have been experimenting with the 6.5 WSM for a long time and you can probably get some great info from them.

To go on, if the rifle is to be for long range plinking and varminting then keep in mind that the 6.5-284 is currently the darling of the 1000 yard set if recoil matters. Some say the 300 mags will still out run the 6.5 but they kick.

Check out the net on 6.5 rounds and read up at 6mmBr on the 284 version.

By the way the excellent shooting 107 gr MK will not expand well on varmints. The 120 Ballistic Tip will.

The Kimber 270 WSM on the left does about the same thing as the 264 Westerner on the right but weighs 2.5 lbs less. The thing is to get both!

quote:

Originally posted by arkypete:
Gentlemen

Has any one developed a beltless magnum?
This is a caliber that's intrigued me for 25 years, but avoided because of the barrel erosion problem and I just don't like belted calibers.
Jim

Jim,

Just for a stunt gun, I built a 6.5RUM. It actually shot very well, but powder for the heavy bullets that is slow enough, is a problem in Aussie.

The 120BT's were like they had their own guidance system!

Blast and recoil were very enjoyable and my barrel maker thought it was a great caliber!!!

The new .375 ruger case might be just the ticket ! I,ve never compared it to anything but I bet its alot like a dakota case...tj3006

I have a 6.5/06 Imp. that will = +/- a 264 wm. We built a number of them 5-6 years ago and then the WSM craze hit. PM me if you would like details.