I usually dont reply to trolls but im bored..... to quote Boddington and say that the 6.5's lack of acceptance in the U.S. is proof of its ineffectiveness is just plain dumb. 35 caliber cartridges were never accepted either but that doesnt mean they are poor killers.

As a side note i have killed animals with 44mag(rifle) 30-06, 358win, 7mm saum, and bow, when all were hit right there was no diffference in blood trail or distance travelled, and that includes the bow, wow, you mean it still comes down to shot placement????

I think Mackey gave up on us brainwashed disciples of the almighty 6.5x55.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
I think Mackey gave up on us brainwashed disciples of the almighty 6.5x55.

I think you are right, the troll found another bridge to hide under. No worries though, we can keep this thread alive.
My take on this whole thread has been brought up, but Mackey flatly denied it. Shot placement. If you hit the animal in the wrong area, you won't recover it. Guaran-f'n-teed. That is why he lost his animals.
Don't tell the local warden, but one of last year's bucks (a very respectable 4x4) weighed about 230 on the hoof and went down to one well placed shot with a 221 Fireball. Now that is not my caliber of choice, but I was actually helping a friend out and the buck stepped out. I had a tag and a varmint rifle in my hand. Put the 40 gr V-max right at the base of his head at 220 yds. Not bragging just saying that a person needs to choose the placement that they feel is right for the situation. He did not take one extra step. I actually love that shot if given the opportunity. No meat loss at all.
To sum up my post, any caliber from the diminutive 22 Hornet up to and beyond the 30-06 are effective on deer sized game....SHOT PLACEMENT is #1 !!!!! 243 Win and up are surely better choices. 6.5 Swede being one of my favorites. Now go troll elsewhere Mackey unless you have something productive or insightful to say.

quote:

Originally posted by BillCx55:
I think you are right, the troll found another bridge to hide under. No worries though, we can keep this thread alive.
My take on this whole thread has been brought up, but Mackey flatly denied it. Shot placement. If you hit the animal in the wrong area, you won't recover it. Guaran-f'n-teed. That is why he lost his animals.
Don't tell the local warden, but one of last year's bucks (a very respectable 4x4) weighed about 230 on the hoof and went down to one well placed shot with a 221 Fireball. Now that is not my caliber of choice, but I was actually helping a friend out and the buck stepped out. I had a tag and a varmint rifle in my hand. Put the 40 gr V-max right at the base of his head at 220 yds. Not bragging just saying that a person needs to choose the placement that they feel is right for the situation. He did not take one extra step. I actually love that shot if given the opportunity. No meat loss at all.
To sum up my post, any caliber from the diminutive 22 Hornet up to and beyond the 30-06 are effective on deer sized game....SHOT PLACEMENT is #1 !!!!! 243 Win and up are surely better choices. 6.5 Swede being one of my favorites. Now go troll elsewhere Mackey unless you have something productive or insightful to say.

He may be out shooting his 30-40 deer.

quote:

Originally posted by mackey:
I read all your comments about the 6.5x55
and as I said earlier ''we have all heard about its successes''. But I wanted to hear about the other side of the story.
I shoot 30 to 40 deer per year and have used the 6.5x55 extensively for the last 20 years.....

Scottfrom dallas

Your right Scott, I was out hunting for the last two weeks and shot eleven deer; but not with the 6.5x55.

All you guys posting on this thread are missing the point, sure everyone knows nearly any animal can be killed with practically any small calibre rifle if everything is done right and everthing goes right, this has all been stated before.

Unfortunately everything does not go right always, I'me sure most of you can accept that statement.

None of you have said how many animals you have wounded and lost, ye always tell me about the animals you have killed with the 6.5x55 and smaller calibres, but will not admit to any failures.

I have killed over six hundred deer with the 6.5x55 and have lost approximatedly ten percent
over a twenty year period.

Five years ago I acquired a much heavier calibre and that ten percent failure rate has ended, during that period I have not lost one animal, and everything I shoot at just goes down.

Stephen Dawson has written a post on this current thread, I can concur with everything he has written, you all would be well advised to read, study and take cognizance of his erudite
words.

Best of luck.

Joe

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mackey:
I have killed over six hundred deer with the 6.5x55 and have lost approximatedly ten percent
over a twenty year period.

That'd be 60 deer. Not something I'd be too proud of. After the first couple, I think I'd try something else. I'm not saying that the 6.5x55 is not an adequate cartridge in the hands of a careful hunter and a good marksman.
I've lost 2 deer in 60 years of hunting and one of those was shot with an arrow. 'Course I ain't killed no 600 deer.

quote:

That'd be 60 deer. Not something I'd be too proud of. After the first couple, I think I'd try something else.

sighting it in might help!

quote:

Five years ago I acquired a much heavier calibre and that ten percent failure rate has ended, during that period I have not lost one animal, and everything I shoot at just goes down

reminds me a fellow i sold a 460 weatherby to a few years back. he was from alabama and needed it to shoot those big alabama deer with. he had been used a 340 weatherby but that was just small - some were running away after he shot

Lets see.....30 deer/yr for 20 years. A large family must be the only explanation.....and a large freezer.....and in that state that issues 31 permits to each person in a hunting season. It's all clear now.

This could turn into a 3-bagger...

Mackey,

Where do you live that you can shoot that many deer a year? I thought all states set limits. Granted, I haven't researched it so I really don't know.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
Mackey,

Where do you live that you can shoot that many deer a year? I thought all states set limits. Granted, I haven't researched it so I really don't know.

He lives in Ireland. Which means he does culling on properties. Funny if he was shooting all those deer with a caliber he dislikes, one has to wonder why he kept using it.

Notice how he has yet to give a specific example of the cartridge not working yet expects us to list specifics. As for me, I dont know how many game animals I have shot with it but I know I have never lost one that was shot with it. So I am unable to give him specifics since it has never failed me.

Hi Flags,
Nice to hear from you.

I never said I disliked the 6.5 calibre only that I though it was given too much attention as a truly useful cartridge, I have found it has flaws when used to any great extend.

The resaon why I continued to use it is because we have very restrictive firearms laws in this country whereby it was the only thing I could get a permit for at that time, its not like the great Uninted States where one just purchases a firearm and gets the permit very quickly if one is not a felon.

A nine page A4 document must be filled in to make a firearms application in Ireland and also
other supporting documentation must be sent in with the application. Then it can take anything up to six months to a year to get the licence.

Some of the regulations were changed about seven
years ago permitting larger calibre under specific conditions, it took me three applications and 18 months endeavour to obtain a certificate for a 9.3.

So you see, I would have changed calibre a long, long time ago if I had the opportunity which I was denied.

That is why I dont understand why Americans
would rather use small calibres such as the 6.5 when there are infinitely better ones available in the USA, such as the 30-06, 338-06, and 35 Whelan etc.

Best of luck.

Joe

quote:

I have killed over six hundred deer with the 6.5x55 and have lost approximatedly ten percent
over a twenty year period.

Mackey,

Were these deer lost because of:

a) bad bullet placement = the fault of the hunter?

b) Inadequate caliber = the fault of the hunter selecting the wrong cartridge?

c) Frail bullet that shattered and did not penetrate = the fault of the hunter for selecting the wrong bullet?

d) Not the fault of the hunter - all other reasons combined?

e) none of the above

Warrior

In Mackeys defence and although Ireland is a small place it is not impossible to be shooting 60 deer a year.
We have quite a population of Sika and Fallow deer in this country and until recently not a lot of licenced deer stalkers.There are slightly over 4000 licenced stalkers now and the average stalker shoots 8/9 deer a year.Thats based on the most recent cull returns.
I know a good few hunters here[in Ireland] would be pothunters and would shoot 1 to 3 or 4 deer a season and then there are those that shoot considerably more .
Land for deer stalking is in general rented from the State Forestry,Coillte. Or you shoot on privately owned land for which you may or may not pay an annual rent.
If you have your deer stalking for free on private land you may well be under pressure from the landowner to achieve a high annual cull.

I would guess that Mackey is predominantly shooting Sika deer. If you havent hunted them you are in for an eye opener when you put a round through the boiler room of a stag during the rut.Or any time really when I think about it a bit more.
They take off like they havent been touched and it is nothing for them to run a good 60-70 yds before keeling over.
You gralloch them and you may well have blown the heart and lungs apart but they keep on goin,
They are dead on their feet but wont admit it.

I have seen several faces looking at me in the gloom of the dawn or dusk with an open mouth saying,it ran !Thats when I instruct the stalker to shoot them through the shoulders to anchor them as much as possible.

Sika tend to favour heavy forestry or gorse to lie up in and if they make their run into this cover it can be damn difficult to locate them.

The use of deer dogs has only become popular here in Ireland in the relatively recent past.there is no doubt that a dog is an essential aid in tracking a deer in heavy cover unless your blood line takes you back to Hiawatha or some other luminary.

I use a 6.5x55 myself and love it. Norma 156gr Oryx is my ammo of choice,it is quite authoritive

If Mackey moved from a 6.5 to a 9.3, I would imagine he would see a difference in knock down power. The 9.3 will make a much bigger hole and probably has a better chance of anchoring a deer on a marginal shot such as a moving deer.

It's really hard to compare a small bore against a large medium bore. I just can't see the difference being important for deer hunters who wait for a good shot before squeezing the trigger.

If you are culling deer, and are willing to take marginal shots, I can see the 9.3 being more effective. I don't cull so I never felt the need for a medium bore to hunt deer.

What 9.3? My 9.3x57 w/ 286 is a great 150 yard rifle. 6.5x55, 300 yards. Hmmmm.

Hey Joe,

The only pigs I lost where the ones I missed...

It can make a difference if you are shooting running pigs with dogs behind that when they are undisturbed feeding out there.

Obviously with their adrenalin pumpin a much bigger caliber is better because is much more difficult to have good shot placement.

If you are wounding and loosing so many animals maybe is time to buy a dog.

L

[/IMG]

i've killed a bunch of deer, hogs, antelope, exotics, and a ass cow elk all with a 120 barnes ttsx out of my swede.

First of I'd like to state that I personally prefer larger caliber rifles for most of my hunting, the .375HH being used for most of the time.



How ever I live in Sweden and have a fair amount of experience from seeing the 6,5X55 being used. To put a bit of a scientific twist on this long thread I'd like to provide some numbers on the subject.



First example is perhaps not scientific but still fairly powerful. My father in law has hunted extensively for the last 40 years, using the 6,5x55 exclusively. He has killed more than 1000 hoofed animals, about 60% of them being scandinavian moose the rest roe deer and a few wild bores and fallow deer. To this date he has lost 2 moose, both from poor bullet placement/taking a shot witch should not have been taken. Most of his hunting is done using dogs and the shooting distances are usually very short. Non premium 156gr bullets used on all game.



Now for some hard facts. Below is a list showing caliber,number of animals shot/caliber, number of shots/animal, distance from where the animal was shot to where it was found in meters (1 yard is about 0,91 meters). The numbers are taken from reports on 8760 moose killed in Sweden.



Caliber Moose taken Tracking distance Shots/moose
30/06 2849 47 1,57
6.5x55 2792 43 1,57
308 win 1314 41 1,67
8x57 IS 575 57 1,53
9.3x62 449 34 1,50
358 Norma 219 19 1,16
375 H&H 211 31 1,33
9.3x57 134 41 1,50
7mm Rem 107 40 1,32
338 WM 83 31 1,20
300 WM 27 16 1,83

Total/average 8760 43 1,56

Average shooting distance 61m



As far as I can tell there is no information on number of moose shot at but not found.



Interesting reading I'd say. But please remember what Samuel Longhorn Clemens (aka Mark Twain) once said; "Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics.""

Sorry about that list of calibers, I cant seem to get it spaced out as I wanted to Hope it is readable as it is.

Klein,

Nice post and welcome to the forum.

I bought my first 6.5x55 in 1962 with my father - it was an 1894 Swede cavalry carbine. It cost me about 35 yard mowings, IIRC, to put Williams receiver sights on it. My nephew still uses it from time to time, though he has newer rifles, and about the only negative we've experienced was a really long muzzle flash from the 18-inch barrel.

Move forward a couple of decades and I bought a Ruger 77 then a Winchester Featherweight in the same caliber. I started with Hornady 129 grain SPs, then changed to 120 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips. I got the same results with both - 100% successful. The only difference between the two bullets was the shorter walk along the blood trail with the BTs.

I've had heavier calibers, but I see no reason to use them on deer, and I'd not hesitate to use them on elk.

Edited to add: Another reason such comments as "(X cartridge) is no good" make little sense is that for the most part we're already overwhelming mid-sized game with the power we shoot anyway. It's fun to talk about this caliber, this velocity, this bullet weight, but any bullet that penetrates the heart-lung area is not healthy for game and it will likely die. Once the bullet has stopped, it has little effect on the game animal, and if it exits, it has none, unless the dust it throws up on the far side is an effect. In my experience, on deer-sized game, the bullet design has more effect on how far I have to walk to find the animal than velocity or bullet size.

Does anyone else remember when Hunting and Shooting was about Hunting and Shooting and using whatever Calibre and Firearm you wanted and not arguing over what Calibre is best or who can piss furtherest.
Seemed like a lot more fun then, before trolls and over opinionated know-nothings.

quote:

Originally posted by Andyroo:
Does anyone else remember when Hunting and Shooting was about Hunting and Shooting and using whatever Calibre and Firearm you wanted and not arguing over what Calibre is best or who can piss furtherest.
Seemed like a lot more fun then, before trolls and over opinionated know-nothings.

I get your point but you are in the Small Caliber forum. I'm not sure what you are expecting to find in this forum. It's not about hunting here, it's about ballistic gack

quote:

with the 6.5x55 and have lost approximatedly ten percent

If you ever lost 10% of the deer you shot at on my farm I'd beat you sensless and never let you back again. it shows poor shooting or shot placement to me, no matter what the caliber.
You have never yet answered where these lost animals were hit or why you couldnt find them.
it doesnt take long reading your drivel to see your full of shit.

quote:

Originally posted by theback40:

quote:

with the 6.5x55 and have lost approximatedly ten percent

If you ever lost 10% of the deer you shot at on my farm I'd beat you sensless and never let you back again. it shows poor shooting or shot placement to me, no matter what the caliber.
You have never yet answered where these lost animals were hit or why you couldnt find them.
it doesnt take long reading your drivel to see your full of shit.

It's a shame you can't say how you really feel! I think there are several who have read this post who feel the same way

quote:

They take off like they havent been touched and it is nothing for them to run a good 60-70 yds before keeling over.

So, you mean they act just like whitetails??? Most animals take off at the shot and travel 50 or 60yds. The 6.5X55 almost always completely penetrates the animal, leaving a good blood trail.

I have never lost any animal using a firearm, bow is a different thing.

On another hunting web site there is a gent from England who has killed in the thousands of deer, guess what he uses??? Yep 6.5X55 and he sells em for market so its his livelihood.

A 10% loss rate is horrendous, either Mackey is hittin up the pub before he hunts or he is taking marginal shots, maybe both

I wholeheartedly agree there. I would be ashamed of myself if I lost anywhere near 10% of the animals I sought, whatever they be.
To my mind, if you are using an appropriate calibre for your target game within it's capable range, and, without a doubt the 6.5x55 on Red Deer to 150m or yards is well within those parameters and you are losing animals then the problem is you and your rifle. An inaccurate rifle is no excuse as any shooter or hunter worth spitting on knows how accurate his rifle/load combo is and uses it accordingly. Here in New Zealand the 6.5x55 and it's ballistic contemporaries, .260 Rem etc, are well respected and widely used. I have several personal friends that use 6.5x55s to great effect on a regular basis beyond 400m on large Red Stags, Sambar, Wapiti (Elk) and all the other smaller game we have here.
Why are they successful, as myself and almost everyone else are? We are careful shooters, we care not about the numbers we shoot but the quality of our shots. We spend time practicing our shooting, getting to know how our rifles and loads act at range.
This is not something special. No true hunter will shoot only from a bench at 100yrds and think we are set. We know that things change in the field, we know that just because your rifle and load will hold 1 MOA at 100yrds does not necessarily mean it will hold 1 MOA at 200, 300, 400 yrds etc....
We use projectiles that are appropriate in mass and construction for our target game and that maintain the required level of accuracy. This is basic stuff...
To hunt for years with a load/rifle/calibre combination that is not working for you at best shows you as a fool and unethical buthcher, at BEST.


I shoot a lot in the Pine forests here culling Goats with my suppressed .22lr rifles using sub-sonics, so I have learned one or two things about hunting ethics and shooting with care. Of all the game I have lost over my relatively short career not a single one has been due to a failure in my chosen calibre.And their have been a few different calibres for game ranging from Starlings to Wild Bulls, .177 and .22 Air Guns, .22LR, .22 WMR, .22 Hornet, .222 Rem, .223 Rem, .243 Win, 6.5x55, .260 Rem, .270 Win, .308 Win, .303 British, 7.62x39, 7.62x54R and 8x57JS. All have been MY fault.

To the OP, loosing 10% of your game on a regular basis is YOUR fault, whatever you choose to blame it on, it is your fault and your responsibility.

From what you have said thus far in this thread you portray yourself at best an arrogant fool.

Perhaps you should stop butchering the 30-40 Deer you claim to take and spend some time building some shooting proficiency.

Andy

Andyroo

Why do these type of discussions always have to descend into personal recriminations ?

This was a topic I raised about the demerits of the 6.5x55 and not my ability as a shooter or hunter.

If you wish to discuss butchery and arrogance then your New Zealand Government Department of Internal Affairs are well acquainted with both.

During the 1920's to late 1960's the Department of Internal Affairs employed cullers who lived in the New Zealand bush for long periods of time and destroyed every deer they could and only cut off their tails for counting purposes,the carcasses were left to rot on the mountainsides and in the manuka scrub.

Over one million deer were destroyed by cullers with farmers, casual shooters and others accounting for several million more.

It was not uncommon for a single culler to kill 100 deer in a day !

So do not lecture me about butchery and arrogance; any game I take, the carcasses are removed and eaten by people.

If you want to sling dirt, then just look in the backyard of your own country and you will find plenty of it there !