I'm looking for good deer loads for a 20" barrel, M70 Compact. Anyone have any pet loads? I like the 85 gr. Barnes TSX and the heavy Nosler Partitions.

Unless you are unduly worried about muzzle flash and blast you're best sticking to standard 243 loads. With 85gr I swear by H4350 and find RL22 fantastic with 105gr.

My 19" M700 uses;-

80gr BT - 40gr VVN150 - 3,000fps
90gr BT - 43gr H4350 (mag primer) 2,925fps
105gr Speer - ?RL22/MRP 2,850fps

It has a moderator which is extremely efficient with the VVN150 but less so with the other loads.

The faster powder you use, the more of the velocity your will retain in a short barrel...

H 4350 and RL 19, give you a big muzzle flash because you are not burning all the powder in the barrel...

With American powders, I would look at loads with IMR 4198, IMR 3031, IMR 4895 or IMR 4064 RL 7. RE 10, RE 15 and even SR 4759....or blue dot...

They will give you as much velocity in the shorter barrel, if not more.. and the muzzle flash will not be an issue...

But if you like pyrotechnics while out hunting, then stay with H 4350... or RL 19 and 22...

The good bullet choices would be the 90 or 95 grain Ballistic tips or the Speer 90 and 105 grain SP, or the Sierra 85 grain HP, or Sierra 100 gr SP., or the Hornady 100 grain SP or RN.....Don't sell the 75 grain HP Hornady short either... it just plain works well on antelope sized deer...

36 gr. 2230-C is pushing 80 gr. bullets at well over 3000fps and is accurate. Because this is a slow medium burning rate powder the shorter barrel will not have as pronounced affect on lost velocity. roger

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
The faster powder you use, the more of the velocity your will retain in a short barrel...

H 4350 and RL 19, give you a big muzzle flash because you are not burning all the powder in the barrel...

With American powders, I would look at loads with IMR 4198, IMR 3031, IMR 4895 or IMR 4064 RL 7. RE 10, RE 15 and even SR 4759....or blue dot...

They will give you as much velocity in the shorter barrel, if not more.. and the muzzle flash will not be an issue...

Seafire,

Unfortunately I have found this to be absolutely not true in an 18" tikka and a 19" remington. Certainly the faster powders are more civilised but the velocity is down compared to slower powders.

I agree the rate of change of velocity reduction is lesser than with slow burning powders but the slower burners offer such a significant advantage to the 243 that overall they (the slower powders) are significantly better for higher muzzle velocities from shorter barrels (rifle)

My studies have shown a 200fps in reduction (keeping the same pressures) moving from H4350 to H4895 burn rates with the 90gr BT.....

Note the ability to propel a 105gr speer to 2,850fps from an 19" barrel with RL22. With RL19 a 100gr bullet struggles to make 2,800fps. The 243 really thrives on slow powder!

So my experience is diametricaly opposed to yours - short barrel 243 rifles still require slower powders to produce best velocities.

Of course one might choose to sacrifice velocity for milder manners - I do much of the time. It is possible to drop a bullet weight, use a faster powder and acheive much the same terminal result with a pleasanter shooting rifle.

Well 1894, that is why we share opinions on AR.. learn from each other...

But even with a loss of 200 fps, if you are correct...that should not be a big problem in the field... 2 clicks on the scope will compensate for that variation...

however, less powder meaning less recoil, and less muzzle flash.. I'll sacrifice the less velocity....

All I can relate is that a lot of Encore Users, don't see a lot of advantages in the real slow powders in the RL 19 and 22 range.. when used in a 14 and 15 inch barrel...

but either way, a bullet in the right spot will complete the job, which ever school of thought one applies.. I just recommend the one I feel accomplishes that for the shooter better...

cheers
seafire

Funny, I load 41 grains of IMR-4350 with 100 grain Sierra's in my sons .243 and we don't notice a big blast or flash. It is a Win M70 Lightweight Carbine with a 20" barrel. We also load 43 grains of IMR-4350 with 85 grain Barnes X with similar results. The Sierra 100 grainer produces consistent groups under 1", sometimes even a half inch, not bad in a lightweight carbine in my opinion.

i use to use 4350 fpr my 243 it shot good than about 15 years i switched to 7828 and found this worked better for me in my ruger lite wieght i now shoot 47.7 gr of 7828 with 95 gr nosler bts at 3172 ftps. out of a 18 3/4 in. barrel this is a bit over max in the new nosler manual the green manual says 47 gr is max so i belive that slow powers work very well with slow burning power

I have loaded for a couple of .243 Handguns over the years. One was a Savage Striker (14" Barrel) and I used from 55gr. to 100gr. Bullets. I had the best results from the faster burning powders in terms of accuracy and didn't give up much velocity (approximately 100 FPS) from the slower powders.

I am currently working with a 15" T/C Encore in .243 Winchester. Of the loads I have tried so far 55gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips loaded with Varget and 80gr. Speer Hot Core Spitzers loaded with H-4895 are the accuracy choices for this barrel. For the record I am shooting the 55's at 3240 FPS and the 80's at 2920 FPS from this 15" Barrel with these powders.

Larry

citori
The best loads I used in 2 different 243's a Ruger No1 and a Remington Mod 7 with an 18 " bbl consisted of either a 100gr. Sierra or a 95 gr Nosler Partition with either 40 or 42 grains of IMR 4350.
In the Mod 7 this load shot under 2.5" at 300 yards, way under.

citori,

I shot a 18" Remington 788 in .243 Win. for many years (don't worry.....it's still in the gun safe) and it shot itty-bitty groups while killing a couple dump truck loads of Roe Deer and a few Arizona Whitetails with 85 gr. Speer SPBT's and 39.0 grs. of IMR 4064.

Ought to be able to convert such a load to a 85 gr. TSX load quite easily IMO.

Standard load reductions & warnings apply!

I have to agree with seafire on this one. I have 2 .243's and when I shoot lighter bullets in the 85 gr. range, I get the best results with varget or imr 4895. The same is true with a shorter barrel. The powder all being burned inside the barrel seems to have a great effect on accuracy. I really had very erratic results with slow powders in the .243. The gun seems to be very sensitive to temp changes with slow powders.

Ruger RSI, 34gr Varget and the 95gr Hornady SST.
All it did was put five shots in 1.24" at 100 yards, and kill three mule deer this fall in SE Oregon for two of my nieces (12yr old 5', 89lbs, and 13 1/2 5'3" and 107lbs) with one shot apiece between 140-150yards, and one for their dad at about 200yds. That is about all I can tell you.

Rich
NRA Life Member DRSS
Proud CZ owner and shooter

I saw a good article some time ago, and can't remember where, but it had some good advise about the efficiency of shooting slower powders vs faster powders in short barrels...

The question was, how much of the faster powders were going to be burned up in the short barrel... versus the slower powders...

They did the simple recommendation of taking some old T Shirts or some old sheets or a large piece of white 11 x 17 paper and post it 2 to 3 feet in front of the gun barrel and shoot it...

All the powder that was not burned in the barrel, would be peppered on the white surface and be able to be easily seen.....

As for muzzle flash, we have a lot of woods where I live... so I have the luxury of being able to go out at night and discharge a firearm in the dark... without freaking out the rest of the locals...

That also gives me an idea of efficiency depending on the amount of muzzle flash... if it comes out the barrel a straight flame, or a big room sized flash....

I don't know if there is any scientific proof to doing it this way... but it influences my opinions...

I just prefer faster powders in short barrels as I prefer slower powders in longer barrels...( like 26 inchers etc)...

if you want to see some real pyrotechnics... try some H 335 powder!!!!!...shoot that in the dark!

I have pretty much been using Varget in my .243 loads for quite some time. I have a BLR and I just assumed that the faster powder would be better in the short barrel. It works well, but some of you have me wanting to try the slow powder. I currently have some 65 grain v-max loaded up at 3420 fps. It generally pushes 100 grainers at a little over 2800 with good accuracy in all loads.

Load the same ones you load for a 22 in. barrel, they'll be 100 fps or so slower in a 20-incher. I lean towards H414, 4350 for a .243, has always worked for me.

I have a 20" Mannlicher that loves 40.5gr of IMR4350 behind 100 Horn SP.

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
The faster powder you use, the more of the velocity your will retain in a short barrel...

H 4350 and RL 19, give you a big muzzle flash because you are not burning all the powder in the barrel...

...

...Unfortunately I have found this to be absolutely not true in an 18" tikka and a 19" remington. Certainly the faster powders are more civilised but the velocity is down compared to slower powders. ...So my experience is diametricaly opposed to yours -

From my experience, I completely agree with 1894mk2 that the typically Slower Powders will always out-perform the faster powders - in velocity.

When ever I carry a rifle for hunting, I want a SAFE MAX Load and an appropriate Bullet for the Game. I don't try to turn a 243Win into a 240Wby, and I positively do not want to turn it into a 6mmTCU.

Downloading is fine for plinking, but when it is Game time, I want all the killing performance a cartridge is capable of providing.

Excess Muzzle Flash can be a concern in some situations and as long as you use Single Base Powders, the effects of Muzzle Flash are reduced.

quote:

short barrel 243 rifles still require slower powders to produce best velocities....

Absolutely correct.

Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills.

I used a Sriker 243 for a number of years to hunt Minnesota in the shotgun zone(shotguns , muzzleloaders , or handguns legal) .

It was my impression that the double based powders gave up a bit less speed than the single based in the short barrel, and I used quite a bit of RL19 under 100 gr slugs with good results . I'll grant you there was plenty of muzzle blast , but I figure that is just the nature of the beast , and I wanted all the performance I could get . I finally settled on a load of H414 under 95 grainers as the best load in the short barrel , the blast was really not that bad for the speed I was getting......Hodgdon data shows that H414 is the speediest powder they sell with the heavier .243 slugs; and that is definately the place I would start if loading for a short barreled .243 rifle........H414 worked very well in the short Striker barrel.