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| One of Us |
Can someone please tell me how hot these can be loaded? I have an ex-mil with a timmney trigger that I just plain like that has thus far only seen factory ammo. Someone once said that the 6.5x55 is a 270 but just does´nt know it. How close can we get to this statement without doing a nasty to the 96 action? I dont nessesarily want to go as far as I can on this, but would like a bit more than the factory stuff offers. Or, do I just build one on a 98? I dont want to change on a whim, I really like this rifle ( I think I said allready) boet | ||
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IMO, the thing that makes a Mauser 98 action a better action than a pre-1896 style Mauser action is that it is designed to handle escaping gas better. If you try to get 270 performance from a smaller cartridge case, like a 6.5x55, you have to load it to higher pressures. If you load to higher pressure and have a case failure, the pre-1898 style Mauser actions may allow the gas to escape toward your face and eyes. Therefore, I think that, from a personal safety perspective, it is best to be conservative when loading for pre-1898 style Mauser actions. Jeff | |||
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There is no need to load to 270 pressure leavels to get similar performance. teh 6.5's are ballistically superior. The 129 or 140 will fly forever when launched at reasonable velocities. No need to supercharge the Swede, just use sane loads and enjoy. | |||
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If all variable that you can control are equal; pressure, barrel length, bullet weight, etc., a larger capacity case is always going to have more velocity potential than a smaller case. The 270 has a case capacity of 68 grains of H20 while a 6.5x55 has a case capacity of 56 grains of H20, a difference of 12 grains or 17.65%. Give the ROT that you get a 1% gain in velocity for each 4% gain in case capacity, a 270 should out-perform a 6.5x55 by about 4% or 40 fps per every 1,000 fps. Not a whole lot of difference, but it may be unsafe and/or unwise to try to run a 6.5x55 at 270 pressures in a pre-1898 military Mauser action. Jeff | |||
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Boet, I will try and answer your question. You should be able to get 2700-2750 fps with a 130 grn bullet and have quite reasonble pressures. You can achiev3 2600-2650 and have quite reasonable pressures with a 140 grn. The 130 grn 6.5 bullets has a BC of about .475-.479 and a SD of about .260-265. depending on manufacture. For all practical purposes inside of 250 meters there will be no difference in performance or trajectory of a 270 vs 6.5x55. Mike Never under estimate the internet community to use any opportunity to reply to a post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence problem.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Just because Kimber saw fit to use the 96 action for cartridges such as the 22-250 doesn't necessarily mean one can load up the 6.5 Swede and be safe. Kimber of Oregon has come and gone, Kimber of America has come and gone, and now we have Kimber Mfg. of Yonkers. The old Kimber, therefore, is "liability" free whereas you'd just be plain old, well, negligent if something were to go wrong. Having said that, the cautious hand loader could speed the old Swede up a bit with new brass and modern powders, and still be safe. Making it into something it never was isn't a good idea. | |||
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I would think it was the thierd recoil lug, I have a Carl G. 1903, and it dose O.K. with a 20" BBL. it will throw a 120gr. Speer at 2790, and the 140gr. Speer at 2550. I don't know what you are looking for, but the Ruger 77 MKII of my is some what faster but it has a 22" BBL. the 120gr. Speer in that one is 2850. So they are not that far a part that you would notice in a hunting fields. | |||
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Thanks all I have left RSA to work in Portugal, then Canada, then back in Portugal, then the Emirates and now back in Portugal which I love even though I speak the language like shit.Well, sorry about all that, but the thing is, I have seen it prudent because of my nomadic life, to only keep the rifles I deem cool. The Swede is surely cool and, if I can run it between 243 and 270 type performance, I am happy. I´m thinking the same range of game not exact balistics. ie. Dear sized game (sringbuck, blesbuck) @ 300 yards as my personal max. Sorry to labor on here, but just to put things in context in terms of the battery, the others I´ve decided to keep are: 425WR 35 Whelen 300H&H 22LR Well, I am sure you can see where the 6.5 fits in. Thanks again boet | |||
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Sometime in the last century I recall an article -- possibly in The Rifleman -- which stated that the M96 and other small ring Mausers, were proofed at 60k psi. Not eye-opening by modern standards, but generous enuff. My own choice would be to stay with handloads of the original caliber and to convert to cock-on-open which will shorten the striker fall and install a Timney. Bud W | |||
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The Norma factory stuff is pretty darn hot as is. I chrono'd some, and it was pretty snotty stuff, right up with it's advertized velocity. | |||
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And wouldn't you know it, lots of Swedes buy Norma for their Swedes! I think anything with a MAOP of 45,000 is a no-brainer. Up to 55,000 MAOP covers CIP for the Swede and 60,000 is in my comfort range. "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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there is no material difference in gas handling on a Swede 96 from the 98 action. and by comparison to some other actions the mausers are not the top of the heap in escaped gas handling anyway. the later swedes, like the Husqvarnas are materially every bit as strong (for handling pressure) as any 98 action, probably better as the Husqvarnas were generally built with better metalurgy and quality control from most (military) mausers from which the vast majority of sporters are derived. I've gone as hot as 46.0grs of IMR-4350 behind a 120gr Sierra. and 45gr behind a 140gr flatbase actually an old winchester power point these old winchester bullets are bore diameter forward of the cennelure and groove diameter behind it for some reason these are very accurate in my rifle and even though really designed for a 264Win expand well on everything I've shot them into... the Nosler ammo is FAR hotter than any published loads from the various bullet manufacturers and I really expect that Norma knows what they are doing. Do remember that the handloading manufacturers worry that someone is going to load a max handload and stuff it into a Norwegian krag.... In my particular rifle factory military ball ammo (genuine swede) as well as the Norna Oryx ammo absolutely flattens the primers. My hottest handloads don't do that... I will be going hotter as I still get an occasional smokey neck (one in six) at my current load level, Or I will resume development with RL19. AD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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AD What you have just said makes me feel all warm and sentimental towards my old ex-mil swede. His home is assured with me. One tends to hear so much negative stuff about anything not mod´98 that, well, it cant all be true. Thanks for telling me what I wanted to hear. boet | |||
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That really is the crux of the matter isn't it, you just want to hear want you want to hear. Damn the facts. What Allen said just isn't true. The 98 does handle gas better. Prove it to yourself, just trace the gas routes. The 96 does a good job and is made of good steel. And only the uninformed ever claim the 96 is a weak action. However a 98 it isn't. That does not mean that the 96 can't be used with sensible modern load. Just don't try to make a magnum out of it. | |||
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Of course, giving thanks for hearing what I want to hear was said tongue in cheek. But it is always to hear good news. I made it clear I think that I want a little more than I´ve been getting, but have no intention of pushing the limits.....I just wanted to know what they are. I´ve just got rid of a 270 and a 7mm rem...I just did´nt like the rifles.I really like my swede and the cartridge and appreciate advice from you guys. I just got a little paranoid about stuff I had read and heard about the 96 action and now I´m not. Cool boet | |||
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Good to hear, and there is no need to be paranoid. The Swedes are great little rifle and the 6.5x55 a fantastic cartridge. Now that you've restated your intentions I too feel better. Sorry if I did not read that in your post earlier. | |||
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