I have no dog in this fight and am just curious to opinions of people more knowledgable than I.

Is the .243 WSSM a piece of junk or a usable cartridge?

I'm a 25 WSSM fan, no, make that a BIG 25 WSSM fan, but haven't done much with the 223 or 243 WSSMs.

Go visit www.wssmzone.com and ask the guys who have actually owned/shot a WSSM or 2. I have 17 Winchester/USRA 70s chambered for the WSSMs and have shot 5 or 6 of them enough to offer an informed opinion on the 25 WSSM, a very limited opinion on the 223 WSSM, and a very, very limited opinion on the 243 WSSM.

Jeff

AlL of the WSSM cartridges are the most usable designed for the public.

i'm waiting for the next "revolution" is cart. design.
It's gonna be called the .17 SBSM.
or the 17 screaming bat-shit magnum.
Its gonna be a 50 BMG shortened to 2" and necked down to .17 caliber. it will drive a 17 grain hornady vmax at 6250 FPS.
half the rounds will disentergrate as soon as they leave the muzzle. of the other half most will atomize on the surface of the animal when its hit and the misses will cause a rip in the space time continueum sending the varmint back into time.
Gunshop commandos will refer to it as the 17 tuna can.

an aquaintance that I hunt with once in a while could never get his to feed right, I don't remember what rifle he had. He uses it as a single shot now, also not very accurate. I was shooting lizards off the target stop with my 40 year old .243 at 100 while he was trying to get his WSSM to hit a baseball, please note this is only a sample of 1, don't know what others experiences are, but it was hard for me not to laugh at him. He finally gave up on it a bought a Ruger in 220 swift, he says it shoots good but have not seen this one yet.

They are a long way from a POS but I do believe there are better choices.

My FFL dealer has one, it is VERY touchy on ammo. It shoots well with the right stuff, but some ammos are really bad.

All of the Winchester/Olin factory ammo that I've shot in the 25, 243, and 223 WSSMs has been excellent. It is loaded close to the maximum safe pressure, whatever that is, but it has all shot MOA groups without any special effort. My Shilen barreled 25 WSSM is either the best, or close to the best, shooting non-target CF rifle that I've owned and I've owned more than a few.

Jeff

I have a brand new never touched .243 WSSM Winchester M-70 FW walnut & blue that I aquired in a trade. I have been trying to sell it for a while and everyone that I mention it to says that that cartridge is a piece of junk.

Just curious what the experts on AR had to say about it.

If anyone wants one, I have one that I don't want.

Other than "monolithic" bullets like Barnes, I have to wonder what bullets would hold together at those kinds of velocities. Am I crazy?

What do you want for your Winchester/USRA 70 Fwt in 243 WSSM? You can reach me at remguy260@msn.com.

Jeff

Velocity wise, the 25 WSSM seems equal to the 257AI, the 243 WSSM seems equal to hot load in either the 243 or 6mm, and the 223 WSSM seems to be a little faster than a 22-250 and a little slower than a 220 Swift. I would have liked to have seen a quicker twist to the 223 WSSM barrels, as all WSSM chambered factory built rifles from Browning and Winchester/USRA have 1 in 10" twist barrels. That said, the 64 grain PowerPoint Winchester/Olin factory loads shoot lights out in my 70 stainless Ultimate Shadow.

Jeff

Not a POS. Just a bummer design for serious reloading.Completely reduces neck sealing to a new level of inadequacy for reduced or say mild loads. On second thought maybe it does fit in the POS catagory????? I'm so confused. roger

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
i'm waiting for the next "revolution" is cart. design.
It's gonna be called the .17 SBSM.
or the 17 screaming bat-shit magnum.
Its gonna be a 50 BMG shortened to 2" and necked down to .17 caliber. it will drive a 17 grain hornady vmax at 6250 FPS.
half the rounds will disentergrate as soon as they leave the muzzle. of the other half most will atomize on the surface of the animal when its hit and the misses will cause a rip in the space time continueum sending the varmint back into time.
Gunshop commandos will refer to it as the 17 tuna can.

I have already "laid eyes on it". And it isn't a 50 necked down but a 20mm necked down. You can contact CH & 4D company for a set of dies. He may still have some converted brass too. They aren't a cataloged item. But here is a link to their site.

http://www.ch4d.com

muck

I am no fan of ANY "short magnum" cartridges. Still, it amazes me that anyone professing to know guns and cartridges would describe ANY cartridge brought out by a major manufactor, after a lot of design and development time to prove it's worth, as a POS. That's just silly.

nothing amazes me anymore. With the right marketing effort you could sell varnished cow turds as paper weights. I have a 300WSM, so I guess I am as guilty as the next guy.

I shoot a 223WSSM as a long range varminter, so I do have a dog in this fight.

That said, I can see the use of the 223, with a fast twist barrel as a long range rig. That pretty much precludes Winchester factory barrels....

I think the 25WSSM is a very useful catridge; as a matter of fact, with the "really short" action, and Roberts (plus) performance, it's in my mind the ideal "small stature" big game round.

The 243WSSM? In the immortal words of Elmer Keith "what is it good for?". We have the 6mm and the 240 that beat it. We have the 243 in a short action that's the same thing. It's new for new's sake. JMO, Dutch.

All the WSSM's embody the case design advocated by the benchrest faternity. Winchester has made the .223, .243, & .257 calibers available to the public in a competitive benchrest world "designed" case. Winchester has taken a "racing" case design and made it available to the public. So, what do the WSSM's do different? The WSSM's offer the general shooting public an opportunity to own an off-the-shelf readily available proven in the winner's circle of competition case design packaged in a hunting rifle.

I don't own a WSSM of any type, and I don't see a need in my world to have one..

That being said tho, I don't see where ANY cartidge is a PoS....

They all do the same thing.. Some do it at higher velocities and some seem to be more accurate than others at times...but then where would any of those make one a PoS and another one not???

I think Buliwyf gave the best explanation on that in his post above...

Like any cartridge and rifle.. if it peeks your interest, give it a try.. if it doesn't just move on, instead of criticizing it to others...

I prefer a 6mm Rem to a 243.. but I don't think that makes the 243 a bad cartridge at all.. In fact, I only own 2 different 6mm Rem ( both target rifles), and have 5 different 243s, all hunting rifles......

It kinda amazes me on how much negativity folks can come up.. I don't have much use for a magnum in my life.. and way too many people who own them can't seem to handle them in my book ( if my local area is an example )... but the blame is not the cartridge... it is the people who can't handle what they have because they are afraid of it, or are sloppy with the recoil...but it is no reflection on the cartridge...

Is a 30/30 better than a 300 Win Mag???
Well if the shooter is a 12 yr old kid, and the game is a deer in the woods at 50 yds... I'd say the 30/30 is definitely a better cartridge in that case...

If the situation is a shooter who is 18 yrs or older and the game is antelope in open country Wyoming or Montana, I'd say the 300 Win Mag would be the better cartridge this time...

But in either case the other will get the job done.. the problem isn't the cartridge.. it is whether the shooter can apply the cartridges strengths to the situation proposed...

quote:

Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
if it doesn't just move on, instead of criticizing it to others...



It kinda amazes me on how much negativity folks can come up.. .

There is a difference between negativity and the presentation of objective information be it positive or negative. I'm talking performance rather than opinion or conjecture. If one fellow "FEELS" that the case design is the greatest thing since toilet paper than to him it is . That's cool.

If another fellow says he got gas in the face and a lot of soot on the neck and case from his mild reloads that's not negativity that's giving you the facts. Some people do have a harder time than others handling factual information and start to atack the messengers.

An example of negativity might be if someone said that they "FELT" that the .260 was a poorly designed piece of shit. roger

quote:

An example of negativity might be if someone said that they "FELT" that the .260 was a poorly designed piece of shit.

Okay Roger... them thar's fightin' words in my neighborhood!

I had a model 70 classic in .243 WSSM. I never got one cartridge to EVER Repeat EVER feed out of the magazine. It just wouldnt do it. Also accuracy was less than desirable. It was a damned pretty gun had a beautiful stock on it. I dont know I traded mine off in frustration.

Now if they would have made those WSM and WSSM's in 6.5's, 338's, and 358's, it would have made things 'interesting!'

If a 243 WSSM were in my hands, properly sighted, I would have much confidence in the cartridge using it for what is was designed for, but my 243 Win does all I need, and actually my 6mm BR makes me the happiest in 6mm bore. You would have to 'experience' it, hey what is NOT to like when you have shot a 'sub 1/2 inch' group, at 330 yds in a Ruger #1? Love it.

Also, every kill has been drop right there, except my 400 yd deer kill, she ran about 20-25 yds......not bad, esp. with a 'pipsqueak' ctg. like the 6mm Benchrest, using 28.5 grains of powder

I'm very happy with my 25 wssm. I load it nomally to 257 Roberts velocity for general shooting. For hunting I take it further to 25 wssm velocities, or 25/06 if I may. I find the 25 wssm to group the same with light loads as opposed to heavy loads as precribed in 25 wssm load data. BasicleyI shoot more 257 Roberts velocity for everthing but game. I find this a very confortable use. Coyotes and the like, I shoot 75 to 85 grainers at a comfortable "Bob" velocity. I crank 'er up for deer and other critters with a Bitterroot bonded or Bearclaw, sometimes a Nosler partition.
One thing I've found is the fact that most bullets at various velocities will group the same at 100 yrds. As far as the 243 wssm being a "piece of crap", I dont know. My first impression with my 25 wssm was that of disappointment, but later became satisfaction as I learned more about the cartridge. These wssm's are a persnickty bunch. They do well though. I know my 25 will do what I want it to do.......everytime.
I recently got a 270 wsm in a Tikka T-3. It is BORING to say the least. It is so accurate that my mother-in-law could stomp on it, or what ever and it will still shoot under a half inch....everytime......at 100 yrds.
Just work with your 243 wssm. If it's a Winchester, you have lots of work ahead of you.
First thing: Bed or have it bedded properley.
I know your 243 wssm will one day be your favorite.