I have a SAKO in .222Rem and recently bought a box of 55gr Rhino solid shank bullets to try.

Has anyone have knowledge of their performance in this calibre on blesbuck & impala sized game?

Loading suggestions would be appreciated, especially with Somchem powders.

I have had such good luck with the 222 and the Hornady 60 gr. hollow point that I see little use for any other bullet..they expand to the size of a dime and usually make an exit, they kill extremely well....I use that same bullet in my .223 and 22-250 loaded down to 3000 FPS also and have yet to have one come apart on me..I have shot deer, pronghorn, in the states and culled Impala and Springbuck with it in RSA.

Haven't used them in the .222 myself, but a good friend of mine has (Sako). He reported sub-standard accuracy and no apparent expansion on springbuck-everything went clean through with very little internal damage. He changed to 55-grain Hornady and Nosler and swore never to try the Rhino's again.

For what it's worth, I had the same experience with 180-grain Rhino's in the .30-06 - they behaved more like solids than softpoints.

Stephen,

Phone Rhino Bullets directly for more details about his .223 bullets.
Kobus from Rhino is using the .308/180 gr bullet himself, I am using the 200 grainer in my 300 H&H.
I have used Rhino bullets for years and mine have always opened up.

See some reviews on their website at http://www.rhinobullets.co.za/reviews.htm
The 12 th report from the top, the bushpig shot @ 22 meters, is an account with a .223 Rem @ 3,168 fps MV that is of interest.
On the side you can see the expansion of the bullet being measured.

Warrior

jvw375
Did your friend with the Sako 222 have bullets that looked like this? Accuracy will be difficult if not impossible if they were like these 224 bullets.

RM,

That was one of the problems. As you said, accuracy will be impossible with bullets like that. Couple that with non-existant expansion and you have a recipe for disaster.

A gundealer recently told me that he weighed all the bullets in a box of Rhino 500-grain .458 softs and found a discrepancy of 17 grains between the heaviest and the lightest bullet, and this from just one box!

I know a lot guys are very happy with Rhino bullets, and I respect that, but they need a bit of consistency insofar as raw materials and components are concerned, as well as more than a little bit of quality control, in my humble opinion.

Regarding the .308/180 gr Rhino bullet, here is a retrieved bullet from an eland that was shot.

From the horse's mouth - here is the Afrikaans version of Johan's report for the South Africans:

"Hi daar,

Ek stuur vir julle fotos van my "mushroomed" punt - 30-06 180gr -, wat ek my Eland die jaar mee geskiet het.
Die Eland het 220kg uitgeslag en ek is meer as tevrede met die punt se "performance."
Die punt het 95% van sy gewig behou.
Die Eland is op 40 meter geskiet, agter die blad.
Die punt het teen die anderkantste blad vasgesit, teen die vel.
Uitmuntende produk, dankie ouens!!!

Rhino groete,
Johan Diedericks "



Warrior

Some results from Dr Gert van Niekerk on his Buffalo:





Warrior

Here is another one:

"Hello!
This was the "highspot" during our five day hunting trip to Limpopo.

I have been using Rhino SS since 2003 for all of my families rifles (243W, 6.5*55, 308 30-06 358NM 9.3*57 and are planing for two comming calibres 7*64 Brenneke and 404 Jeffey).

The bull was shot by a .30-06!!! from a distance of about 50 m. (200 grain Rhino SS with Norma 204 powder)
Rifle Saur 200 (brand name in Sweden CG4000)

Weight 765 kg and 95" according to SCI of metod to messaure the hornes

Best Regards
Ingvar A Vänman married to the "Hunter" "



Warrior

Here is yet another interesting one that tells the story - from Richard Sowry:

"Recovered bullets shown in photo as follows (from left to right):

1) 458 – Swift AFrame, 500gr, wetpack
2) 458 – Rhino 485gr, wetpack
3) 416 – Rhino 430gr, wetpack
4) 416 – Rhino 430gr, zebra
5) 416 – Rhino 430gr, Buffalo
6) 416 – Rhino 430gr, Buffalo
7) 416 – Rhino 430gr, Buffalo
8) 416 – Rhino 430gr, Buffalo
9) 416 – Rhino 430gr, Buffalo
10) 416 – Rhino 450gr, Buffalo
11) 416 – Rhino 430gr, unfired
12) 416 – Rhino 450gr, unfired

That 450gr 416 after first test appears to be perfect, velocity was about 2200ft/sec.
The velocity for the 430gr’s/ 416 was 2300ft/sec

Regards,
Richard Sowry"





Warrior

All these positive reports are encouraging, but the point jvw made in a previous post is that at present, Rhino bullets are going through a poor quality control phase, most likely due to unavailability of satisfactory materials.
Previous history means little if those you buy on the shelf today are poor quality.
It would be good if we can get some more clarity on this issue.

We had this feedback from a GS Custom bullet user on a recent hunt -

quote:

"Your 130gr GSCHV's gave far better hunting results in my .308 than a much heavier 180gr Rhino bullet did in the past.
Last year I had to follow up on a Bluewildebeest and only with the second shot in the heart/lung area with the 180gr Rhino, managed to kill the animal. Neither of the two Rhino's shot through the Bluewildebeest.
Late July this year I took a similar shot with your 130gr GSCHV on a Bluewildebeest and the bull managed to do just on 30 yards before it collapsed - by the time I have walked the roughly 120 yards to where he was lying, he was dead already.
That's a major difference in bullet performance and the bullet exited the animal with far less meat damage compared to what the two Rhino bullets did to the Bluewildebeest hunted the previous year.
Thanks."

The quote from Jagter is scary dejavu. That is exactly what happened to me except that we never found the animal on the follow up and I had to pay for it anyway. I shot twice and the tracker said both were good and not to shoot again. It just ran off and kept going. I switched brand of bullet and never looked back.

Two things are obvious from this thread and begs for clarification. Are other manufacturers in SA having material quality problems and why is Warrior rabidly defending a product that varies in length and weight and in reported performance by such huge margins? He has no problem conjuring up fictitious problems and attacking other products so what is going on?

What is Warriors connection here? I smell a rat.

Karoo,

I have just spoken to Kobus of Rhino Bullets regarding the apparent poor batches of copper. He says there is no such thing. I suggest you phone Kobus directly on 082-674 6440 to hear what he has to say, as I do not want to defend something that I do not have any knowledge of, save to say that the bullets I got from him works fine. It seems that the above gentlemen that I quoted are also happy with the performance.

Happy hunting.
Warrior

Received this e-mail on 18/08/2008:

"Herewith photos of another impressive bullet. Kudu bull shot at 240 m ;
270 - 150grain ; S365 - 51.5 grains.
Clover leaf groupings - slow shooting.
Retained weight 148.5 grains.
Bullet shattered bulls neck, penetrated fully and lodged in shoulder.
BRILLIANT.

Cheers
Gavin Schultz"



Warrior

Now we know what the connection is. It is good enough that you can speak to him after 10 in the evening and testemonials for the bullets are sent directly to you. That clears up a lot of things.

quote:

I have a SAKO in .222Rem and recently bought a box of 55gr Rhino solid shank bullets to try.

Stephen,

I guess the ball is now in your court Stephen. You just got them, so work up your best load and tell us what accuracy you got, and also how it behaves on Impala, etc. That way you do not have to trust me or Rat Motor and company. At the end of the day you are the one that must be happy and that is all that is important.

Happy hunting.
Warrior

quote:

I have just spoken to Kobus of Rhino Bullets regarding the apparent poor batches of copper. He says there is no such thing.

Thank you for clearing that up. In other words the raw material is good and up to specification and the bullets we see are made that way and quality control is signing them off as within specification.

What is an acceptable specification for variables with production bullets? Anyone know? The auto industry is rife with standards and the arms industry must also have theirs.

Like I said in a previous post, if someone else gets good performance from Rhino bullets, I am happy for them. Very happy.

My own, firsthand, shot-'em-myself experience with Rhino bullets was a near-disaster, though. Two of my friends had similar experiences (one with teh aforementioned 222 and the other with a .30-06 and 165-grain Rhino's used om Gemsbuck at long range - very little to no apparent expansion). I know these guys personally and go hunting with from time to time.

Considering the price of Rhino bullets, I don't think they are worth bothering with. This is MY point of view, and I don't expect someone else to necessarily agree. For my money I stick to Woodleighs, A-Frames and Interbonds these days. Over the last two hunting seasons I have killed a total of 12 animals, ranging in size from a big kudu bull to blesbuck rams, with the last three bullets mentioned. STELLAR performance, and better accuracy in my 7mm, .30-06 and .375 than any Rhino bullet ever gave me.

Again, if someone else tells me Rhino bullets are the thing, I am not going to try to convince him otherwise - I have nothing to gain by doing so am not affiliated in any way to any bullet or ammo manufacturer. I will give my honest opinion when asked about Rhino bullets, though. So will many other hunters I know, both for and against Rhino's. And that is a fact of life for any bullet manufacturer, not necessarily only the kind folks at Rhino (yes, in the past I have communicated with them once or twice and I can confirm they are good folks) have to live with.

At the end of the day, your bullets will have to sell themselves. No amount of full-colour photographs will ever take the place of practical experience. Good or bad.

Hey RM, I thought the thread was about a 55gr 22cal Bullet. How does all the concerning the ""LARGER"" calibers help the originator of the thread?

Seems to me this has happened before concerning Elk Hunting.

Stephen,

Here is the load:
Powder S321
Load 21.0 grains
AOL 54.0 mm

Go up in increaments of .3 grains as the situation permits till you find your rifle's sweet-spot.

Take care
Warrior

quote:

See some reviews on their website at http://www.rhinobullets.co.za/reviews.htm
The 12 th report from the top, the bushpig shot @ 22 meters, is an account with a .223 Rem @ 3,168 fps MV that is of interest. On the side you can see the expansion of the bullet being measured.

Hot Core,

My very first post in this thread was in fact to point Stephen to the 55 gr .223 Rhino bullet. Its retained weight was 42 grains at pointblank range at such high velocity - ie 76.4%. Expansion of the bullet looks OK, and the closing sentence of the hunter was ... "Ek jag uitsluitlik met Rhino punte .223/.30/.375/45-70 met baie goeie resultate", which means that he is using Rhino bullets exclusively in the calibers mentioned (4 of them) and he also metioned ... all with very good results. I also referred Stephen to the source(ie Rhino Bullets), and I have now given him a load.

Some others here on the tread claim bad results, and so be it. It is perhaps true for all bullets. Then came the general and outright critisism againt the Rhino product base. Then in answer to that I posted some examples in bigger calibers just for perspective, and when accompanied by photos it makes the thread just so much more interesing and enjoyable to share the experiences of other hunters. The Rhino product is by no means perfect nor to the same level of precision as a lathe turned bullet, but many people are in fact using it as a hunting bullet with very good results.

That is why we are here to share our experiences with each other, even if they are bad.

In closing, your question was actually quite valid, and that is to assist Stephen.

Happy hunting
Warrior

Hey Hot Core
You are right but this is what Warrior does regularly.

He loses his way like this and then tries to cover up. See how he came back to topic with information that he could have posted first instead of the reflex defense of his products. Of course you had to point it out before he did it.

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
...I posted some examples in bigger calibers just for perspective...

I understand you trying to defend your product, but the Large Caliber Bullets have ZERO bearing on how the Small Caliber Bullets perform. You may be justifying something in your mind, but they have nothing at all to do with how well the Rhino 55gr 22cal Bullets work on "blesbuck & impala sized game" that Stephen asked about.

Attempting to confuse the issue might work on some sites, but not here.
-----

Hey RM, Back when the Barnes-X Bullets first came out my buddy Don had a bunch that looked similar to your flick of the different Ogive Lengths on each of them. However, Don did not know there was any kind of problem until he put a 6" Caliper across some he had just Loaded.

So, he pulls all the Bullets, dumps the Powder, resizes the Case Necks, relods the Powder, Seats the Bullets again and - the problem was still there. So, he does it all one more time and still has the problem.

He called me in a panic mode thinking it had to be something he was doing wrong. Once I got him calmed down and explained what the problem sounded like to me, then he really got irate. He had been used to shooting Nosler B-Tips and Sierra GameKings which did not have nearly that wide of a length variance.

Finally got him calmed down after I got there two days later, but by then even mentioning Barnes put him in a foul mood. Can't remember if he gave them away, sold them or trashed them, but they were gone by the next weekend.

I'd "guess" if the ones in your flick were weighed, you would also see a large variance. I don't intend this as a slam at Karoo when I say if the Forming Dies were properly dimentioned, the "length variance" would not be readily apparent regardless of the raw material quality. The material quality will however cause a weight variance even when the Length Variance is held to a minimum.

The Bullets in RM's flick appear to be "Set-Up Bullets" or "scrap", regardless of the manufacturer.

quote:

You may be justifying something in your mind, but they have nothing at all to do with how well the Rhino 55gr 22cal Bullets work on "blesbuck & impala sized game" that Stephen asked about.

Hot Core,

Ha-ha you joker, next thing someone may ask how these bullets work on Blue Duiker, Black Springbuck or Oribi and to be pedantic it is very different from the 2 mentioned game species. You see, and so we can go around the mulberry bush !!! The example I quoted was where the hunter shot a bushpig, which is even tougher than the soft thin-skinned impala & belsbuck. But you need to split the hairs. What an attempt to tower over us with your knowledge on this question.

So here is a well earned ovation for you.



Warrior

Hot Core does not have to attempt to tower over you with his knowledge. It just happens automatically. In fact most members on this forum will tower over you with their knowledge. Get used to it. I saw this in the Humor Forum and it fits you nicely: "He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I know." -
Abraham Lincoln

Rat Motor,

Let us look at the rat that you are smelling - I think it is your upper lip.

quote:

What is Warriors connection here? I smell a rat.

The only rat here is Rat Motor. A rat that just motors on without ever making a contribution - not on this thread nor on any other thread todate. The relationship is one of supplier (Rhino Bullets) and customer and a happy one at that.

quote:

It is good enough that you can speak to him after 10 in the evening.

Wrong again, I spoke to him 8:15 pm. Jumping to conclusions are your forte.

quote:

See how he came back to topic with information that he could have posted first instead of the reflex defense of his products.

Wrong yet again !!! I could not, I had to phone (ie do some work) to obtain the information for Stephen. You did nothing other than stifling comments. That is the difference between us, you behaved like a Rat, whereas I tried to assist Stephen to get him going.

So just in a few postings of flipping your mouth, you achieved the above.

Warrior

quote:

Warrior Posted 19 August 2008 02:04

Karoo,

I have just spoken to Kobus of Rhino Bullets

I posted less than half an hour later and I know what time I posted. So you were less than truthful once again.

Rat Motor,

Wrong again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my phone call had nothing to do with your posting. My phone call to Kobus was to enquire about jvm375 comment that was made the previous day on 18 Aug 2008 12:59, which said ... " know a lot guys are very happy with Rhino bullets, and I respect that, but they need a bit of consistency insofar as raw materials and components are concerned ... "

Nice try RAT.

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
... What an attempt to tower over us with your knowledge on this question. ...

I've no idea what Warrior is talking about because I've offered NO INFO about Rhino Bullets.

The reason I've not offered any advice on them is because I have ZERO first-hand experience with Rhino Bullets. I did post about Bullet Manufacturing and how the serious problem shown in RM"s flick can occur. If that is Towering Over Warrior - so be it.
-----

And still nothing from Warrior concerning the Rhino 55gr 22cal Bullets work on "blesbuck & impala sized game" that Stephen asked about. But plenty of trash talking.
-----

Hey RM, Has Warrior ever Killed anything at all???

quote:

Hot Core,

Ha-ha you joker, next thing someone may ask how these bullets work on Blue Duiker, Black Springbuck or Oribi and to be pedantic it is very different from the 2 mentioned game species. You see, and so we can go around the mulberry bush !!! The example I quoted was where the hunter shot a bushpig, which is even tougher than the soft thin-skinned impala & belsbuck. But you need to split the hairs. What an attempt to tower over us with your knowledge on this question.

Hot Core,

I thought that the above was quite clear to you, but apparrently it was not. So, let us try again .... If one can shoot a Bushpig with the Rhino bullet in question, that is much tougher by the way, then one can surely shoot an Impala as well. This then raises the question what hunting experience you have, instead of posing that silly question to me. Seeing that you are not making any contribution here, or helping Stephen, you are the one that is talking trash.

Warrior

Hey Warrior

quote:

A rat that just motors on without ever making a contribution

Have you read every post that I have made?

quote:

Posted Aug 18, 11:04 PM, I have just spoken to Kobus

quote:

Wrong again, I spoke to him 8:15 pm.

Ok I will accept that it takes you almost three hours to get from your phone to your computer. My bad. I forgot that you are slow and get distracted easily.

quote:

Warrior posted: Wrong again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my phone call had nothing to do with your posting.

How could it? My post was half an hour after your post mentioning the phone call.


Hot Core I dont know if he has killed anything. He says he has.......

Funny how Warriors defense of rhino always degenerates into the sewer. I am gone from this thread.

quote:

Funny how Warriors defense of rhino always degenerates into the sewer. I am gone from this thread.

No Rhino bullet would work in the hands of Rat Motor, as the Rhino bullets has predetermined built-in intelligence in it to frustrate him.

Now that is funny.

Warrior

Wow! Thanks where due....

This thing lay latent for 11 days and I stopped looking, but it's sure generated a bit of heat since then. I suggest a ceasefire