I was out at the range today and found a loaded .17 HMR the original not the Mach 2. So I got the urge to buy one. Do any of you have one, if so which one, how does it shoot and so on. I am looking for a bolt action, standard barrel, not a bull. Basically something to plink with and maybe now and then shoot a critter with it. I am not interested in building one. I was interested in the stainless Ruger with the laminate stock, but I wasn't sure of accuracy. I am not looking at spending a fortune either. Thanks for the help.

I have a New England Arms in the 17HMR breakopen.. very accurate....

I have a Marlin in the 17 HMR... stainless barrel and grey laminate stock.... very accurate...

I also have a Ruger 77/17 laminate stock and heavy barrel.. also very accurate.....

I jumped on the craze... because it was trendy.... would I recommend them to others.....
NO....

The ammo is too expensive....

I prefer to download a 223 and do more, for cheaper....

If you had to have one.. but did not want to spend a fortune... I'd recommend the New England hands down... I paid $109.00 for that one....

If you still had to have one, and were looking at the cheap.... I'd go with the Savage... very accurate....

The best " dollar value" if you were really into 17 HMRs to me would be the CZs....

Finally, the Rugers are nice rifles, especially the Heavy barreled ones.. however, I'd recommend the CZ over the Ruger... I love my Ruger, but I paid $449.00 for it, which is cheap... but they are usually over $500.00 now... that is just too spendy for a rimfire based on what they do....

I see more value in the 17 Mach 2 myself.....

just my opinions after playing with the cartridge alot over the last 2 yrs....

cheers
seafire

I have a 17 HMR and a 17 HM2 rifle which I use on prairie dogs.Both rifles shoot under one inch groups at 100 Yds.Go to http://www.rimfirecentral.com for a lot of info on the 17s.

Sierrabravo45: I have a couple of 17 HMR's and love them both!
My Rifle is a Ruger Varminter Model 77/17 V (heavy stainless barrel with the laminated stock) and I have a Weaver KT-15 scope mounted on it! This Rifle is a thing of beauty! Great trigger, great accuracy, holds it P.O.I. and looks really good to boot!
The bad news was it was kind of pricey! I wheeled and dealed and got it for $410.00 cash!
My other 17 HMR is a Smith & Wesson Model 647 revolver with 8 3/8" of stainless barrel! I have a Redfield 4x pistol scope on it and I kill Ground Squirrels out to 50 yards with it pretty consistently! This pistol WILL Have more scope power on it by April of next year!
Back to my Ruger 77/17 V - I have killed Varmints with it out to 239 yards (Laser ranged) and have killed Coyotes, feral cats, Raccoons, Badgers, Snowshoe Hare, Rock Chucks, Prairie Dogs, Ground Squirrels, Porcupine, flying Varmints, Jack Rabbits, Weasel, Cottontail Rabbits and some other Varmints with my wonderful 17 HMR!
In my extensive experience with it and personal observations of others shooting it - the 17 HMR is not only far superior to the 22 Magnum ballistically (flatter shooting and less wind drift!) it is more accurate and it has substantially more lethality on Varmints!
I have many friends with 17 HMR Varmint type Rifles and they are equally as happy and as impressed with the cartridge as I am.
I simply can not find anything "wrong" with the 17 HMR.
Long live the 17 HMR!
Good luck with whichever Rifle you choose.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I' ve got a CZ452 American and am very happy with it. The only fault with the 17HMR is like Seafire said, the price of ammo. I thought it might come down some after it had been around for a while, but that hasn't happened and I really don't think it ever will.

My opinion of the 17HMR is that it's about the greatest thing since sliced bread as far as fun in a rimfire rifle could go!!!
Having put toggether, owned, shot over 30 different ones since they came out, I'm still astounded at the what seems to be, inherrent accurracy of the darn little round!!! And these were all sorts of combos from Marlin, Savage, NEF, T/C, Rem, rifles and pistols(Savage Strikers)(Sorry VG, No Rugers tested!!!!...too expensive for the pleasure!! Under 1" groups at 100 yards are really pretty mundane!! Under 1" groups at 200 yards WITH A RIMFIRE is pretty common!!!! How many of y'alls centerfires hold under 1" at 200 yards??? Yea, I know there are probably quite a lot of them!! BUT not straight off the shelf with decent glass on it and shooting "factory ammo" which is all that's available in a rimfire!!! The problem with people "downing" the 17HMR is that they tend to "underglass" them!!! It is inherrently accurrate enough to warrant a decent scope on it!! Not a 3x9 Siimmons or Bushnell but a NIKON, LEUPOLD, WEAVER or BUSHNELL ELITE equipped with target turrets if you want to dial up and down!! Actually dialling from 100-200 is not necessary but the quality of optics mentioned would allow it if wanted!!
Do I reccommend the 17 for 200 yard varmint shots?.....NO!! It has the capability and the accurracy but the little pills do suffer a bit of drop off in velocity and ft/lbs of energy released at that distance!! But the fact remains that the cartridge with a good piece of glass and it's inherrent accurracy can provide some SPLENDID varminting experiences!!! VG has me beat with his 239 yard shot!! My best was a lasered, witnessed 236 yard shot on an eastern groundhog!!! GHD

Id also agree that its a great little round. The first one i bought was a ruger, nice rifle but horrible trigger, reasonably accurate but to expensive for what it was. Ive now had it bedded and have adjusted the trigger and its a nice gun (with a nice big silencer on it)

Next I bought an Anschutz - just beautiful right out of the box and pin point accurate as well.

If you want a tool buy the ruger ( or a CZ). If you want a nice bit of engineering that happens to shot very well get the Anschutz

By the way i`d tie with GD with a 236yd rabbit. Not bad from a rimfire.

Nute: Thanks for your post!
It jogged my memory and I need to make a posting to correct my earlier depiction of my Ruger 77/17 V's trigger!
I remember now that in June of 2,003 (checked my loading log book for dates) I replaced the factory Ruger sear in my 77/17 V with a $17.00 sear and spring from Volquartsen! This change to my otherwise all factory Rifle dropped the trigger pull down from a crisp 4 pounds 8 ounces to a crisp 2 pounds 2 ounces!
Having said that - my now jogged memory and my log book indicate that the best group I fired (during load testing) back in early May of 2,003 was fired with the factory sear and the higher trigger pull weight!
By the way that "best group" measured .502" for 5 shots at 100 yards!
Once I settled on the Remington ammo for my uses I have not done much range shooting at all though with the Ruger.
I may try some of the latest offerings of ammunition for the 17 HMR this winter on those cold, clear and calm days here in February! That will be a neat project.
On my loading log page for the Ruger 77/17 V I noted that my 24" heavy barrelled Rifle with Weaver KT 15 scope mounted weighs 9 pounds 6 ounces.
I have two friends that also own the Ruger 77/17 V and they rave about the accuracy of their Rifles also!
I have seen Remington 17 HMR's as well as CZ's, Marlins, NEF"s and Savages performing at the range and in the Varmint fields! All were gettin the job done - really well!
I am not trying to talk anyone out of a lighter or sporter weight 17 HMR if their heart is set on one of them, but, I have been so happy with my Varmint weight 17 that I have to mention it!
The years of 2,003, 2,004 and 2,005 have been eye-opening and VERY rewarding with this new "King" of the rimfires - the 17 HMR!
I highly recommend everyone interested in accuracy and Varminting with rimfires to give a 17 HMR a try.
Long live the 17 HMR!
More later.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Nute: Your latest posting prompts me again! I simply have to mention a shot I witnessed while hosting two Hunters from NW Washington state here in SW Montana (thats a 750 mile drive!) this past spring.
Anyway on this particular Varmint Safari I was spotting for my friend Ron Kesselring as he was shooting Ground Squirrels with his heavy barrelled CZ - caliber 17 HMR!
I was also laser ranging his longest shot attempts for him with my Leica 800 laser ranger.
Into the Ground Squirrel colony came running (from an end of the field rock pile) an adult Weasel!
Now anyone that has attempted to shoot a Weasel in the field first has to get the Weasel to hold still! They are not only slender targets (smaller around than our adult Ground Squirrels!) but they are constantly darting to and fro!
Anyway I announce my observation of the Weasel Varmint to Ron and he swings over and sets up on him. Ron asks for a range and I laser the fearless little darting Varmint at 229 yards!
POW goes the beautiful little CZ (he owns a gunshop so he gets first dibs on best wood?!) and the Weasel is cut in two!
Now, again, I have shot a number of Weasels over the years and I never recall hitting one on the first shot! I even took two shots killing one once with a SHOTGUN!
This shot was further enhancing to my memory cells - in that there was an 8 MPH wind blowing! The wind was quartering at us and Ron had been doping the wind quite impressively up til then on shots out to 200 yards!
This shot ranks up in the top 5 field shots I have observed on game during the last 45 years of year round Hunting and shooting!
It simply astounded me at the time and impresses me to this day!
Long live the 17 HMR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I purchased one in a CZ varmint and I have shot a 1.5 inch 10 shot group @ 100 yards with it.

It is an absolute blast to shoot and it is great training for my boys to shoot longer shots without the Kentucky holdover needed for 22's.

I think everyone should have one

A couple of years ago I thought about buying a Ruger M77/17 that was on consignment at my local Mom n pop sporting goods store. The owner let me take it out and give it a try. I took it along with my Ruger M77/22M to the range and compared them. The .17 HMR was a bit more accurate and a little flatter shooting. Score one for the .17 HMR. I then took it to one of my favorite Ground Squirrel spots and the results made up my mind. The .17 HMR was just to explosive on Ground Squirrel size game. Was the same on small Bunny’s. I hunt tree squirrels/Brush Bunny’s for the pot and the .17 HMR was just too destructive, wasted too much meat. So back to the store the M77/17 went to sit beside the other two .17 HMR rifles sitting there on consignment. A state contact hunter tried the .17 HMR for called in Coyotes and his results were disappointing to say the least. He took it out and out of the 9 Coyotes he called in he only retrieved 3. 1 was shot in the head and the other two were body hits but required much tracking and follow ups shots. The other 6 that were shot in the body were n ever recovered. My impression of the .17 HMR is it’s not designed for small game hunting and not for animals over 12 - 15 pounds. Lawdog

Gary, Body shots on tree rats with the 17HMR would probably not do much for preserving what table fare there is on one!! Head shots would be another story!! They're so much easier to skin with no head!!!
As far as the lost coyotes go, body shots with a lot of chamberings would have resulted in lost coyotes I feel like!!! I don't recommend the 17HMR for "center of mass" shots on groundhogs and varmints either!! I don't recommend ANY caliber for "center of mass" shots!! From the top of chest up (neck and head) is my prefeered aim point on the varmints and the accurracy of the 17HMR allows that to happen with exceptional regularity!! GHD

I currently have 3 rifles in 17 HRM; a custom Anschutz 141 with a Douglas barrel, a custom Ruger 10/22 Magnum with a Douglas barrel, and a factory Savage 93 with a laminated stock and heavy stainless barrel. The Savage cost less than each of the Douglas barrels, but is more accurate and only needed a little trigger tuning to be a consistant sub-MOA rifle. I think that it cost $240+/- and is among the most accurate out of the box rifles I have owned. Several people who are not serious shooters have fired their 1st sub-MOA groups with my Savage.

Jeff

My favorite 17 HMR is a Rem 597 with a Simmons 6-18x. Shoots great and is hard to find anything more fun ....'cept the 10/22 with a 17 HM2 barrel...they're great rounds!!

Lawdog_ Gary: You simply could not be more wrong!
I actually laughed when I read your post!
I am gonna say this and I want to warn you I am not trying to offend you but here goes anyway!
Maybe you and your friend the Coyote Hunter are simply poor shots!
I can think of no other reason what so ever why you and your pal could be so out of touch with what the 17 HMR can do on small game and Varmints (including Coyotes and Fox!)!
If you are blowing up your critters for the pot then you are simply shooting them in the wrong place!
Head shoot them!
With the superior accuracy of the 17 HMR's and the Rifles they come chambered in you should have no problem what so ever doing that!
Maybe there are better centefire cartridges for Coyotes but I don't hesitate to use my 17 HMR on Coyotes and have had no run-offs as yet!
Go ahead, tell your Coyote shooting buddy to be a little more patient and careful in choosing his bullet placement spots and his Coyote recovery problem WILL be fixed!
Now, also, heed this bit of 17 HMR first hand experience that I will share with you!
I killed a large Boar Badger (23 pounds?) last year with one shot from my Ruger 77/17 V. The shot was lasered with my Leica M-800 laser ranger at 175 yards! After my partner and I went out to the den where that Badger emerged from retrieved mine and went back to our shooitng benches ANOTHER Badger appeared at virtually the same distance! My partner shot and killed that one with his Ruger 77/17 V! He had his made into a rug for the wall of his den!
Badgers ARE tough to kill! I know I have Hunted them for decades now!
Now this also - I do not know how much small game and Varmint Hunting you have done with a 17 HMR or other rimfire guns but the 17 HMR is in my opinion (as well as many others I know and trust) the most lethal rimfire cartridge there is!
You mentioned some of the 17 HMR attributes, but, you leave out (or failed to mention) some VERY important others!
The 17 HMR is flatter shooting than any other rimfire and it has less wind drift than any other rimfire and its bullets are more lethal! Because, over Hunting distances, the 17 HMR bullets hit Varmints and small game at a much faster clip - and as we all know speed of projectiles aids in killing animals once PROPERLY hit!
So, more accurate to begin with in virtually every case is the 17 HMR over other rimfires! And it has a much flatter trajectory and much less wind drift! These attributes only ADD to the already preferrable accuracy of the 17 HMR over other rimfires!
Think about it!
Flatter trajectory means BETTER shot placement under field conditions! The same thing goes for the superior wind bucking ability of the 17 HMR over the other rimfires! Better accuracy in the field! Better accuracy (or bullet placement) in the field means - more lethal hits with a more lethal bullet!
Take my word for this one Lawdog_Gary - no other rimfire compares to the 17 HMR in the field on small game and Varmints! I have used all the other rimfires extensively and the 17 HMR wins this contest hands down.
I have put a ton of 17 HMR ammo downrange at ALL manner of small game, Wild Turkey and Varmints in the last three years!
GHD is EXACTLY right on his advice for shot placement on the larger Varmints and small game. And again you can do it easier with the 17 HMR than any other rimfire!
Your impression of the 17 HMR will change if you ever give it a fair testing and take advantage of its enhanced rimfire accuracy and lethality!
Long live the 17 HMR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy,

quote:

Maybe you and your friend the Coyote Hunter are simply poor shots! I can think of no other reason what so ever why you and your pal could be so out of touch with what the 17 HMR can do on small game and Varmints (including Coyotes and Fox!)!

While I don’t claim to be any Carlos Hathcock I manage to hold my own. I average between 150 - 200 Coyotes pelts sold every year. My choice for taking called in Coyotes is the .22 Hornet. The Hornet will anchor a large dog Coyote WITH a body shot out to 175 +/- yards and in my opinion, as well as many other pelt hunters opinion, the most pelt friendly cartridge out there. Now as far as my friend goes, he makes his living hunting/shooting. He put two kids through college doing what he does best. Shot placement wasn't an issue. Head shots wasn't an option on the 6 lost Coyotes. All were solid heart/lung hits as I was there.

Head & neck shots are great when the opportunity presents itself. But you must have never tried hunting Brush Bunny’s. About the size of Cottontails they have a noted habit of never holding their heads still long enough for a shot. You won’t take home many Brush Bunny’s waiting around for them to hold their heads still. As far as head shooting Coyotes and other critters, if you have been hunting them long enough you must know that is not always possible.

Your accolades of the .17 HMR are all well and good but unfounded. I know many that have tried it using it for larger(over 15 pounds) varmints and it failed to get the job done. You use it if you want but please don’t try to make it out as the “new wonder varmint
cartridge†because it isn’t. Personally the best thing that the .17 HMR has done is bring to the attention of the ammo manufactures the need for better bullets in the .22 rimfires. These newer loads are every bit as accurate and flat shooting. The Remington .22 WMR 33 gr. V-Max BT is just one example. Lawdog

Lawdog_Gary: No I have not shot a Brush Bunny - as yet - but I have shot Weasels and tons of Ground Squirrels - and I mean that literally TONS OF GROUND SQUIRRELS! They do not linger long in any one spot either and the 17 HMR with its enhanced accuracy, speed and superior trajectory IS the best rimfire medicine for these Varmints as well - in my experience - upon which I will expand some more to show you the error of your contention!
I shot 4,000 rounds of rimfire year before last at Ground Squirrels alone! This year and last year I simply lost track as I have a new procedure for my Rimfire Varminters. I simply empty my rimfire ammo into large tupperware like containers for ease of access and loading. After each rimfire shoot I fill the containers back up with ammo. Anyway my numbers have been at least as high for the last couple of seasons as was my verified 4,000 rimfire shot season. And add in the 17 HMR's of which I have shot (this is an estimate) at least 1,500 rounds each year since I got mine. And by Rimfire Varminters I mean the 22 Long Rifle and the 17 HMR. I have not used my 22 Magnum Varminter in going on four years now! The 17 HMR so far outperforms it that it just sits at home anymore.
I have used virtually every rimfire cartridge made on Varmints from 22 Short, Long and Long Rifle on up through 22 Magnum and the various 22 "Specials" and 22 "autos".
And based upon my EXTENSIVE accuracy testing done over DECADES with all the others - the 17 HMR is the new King of Rimfires!
Hands down - no contest even!
The 17 HMR wins this contest WITHOUT even considering its MUCH flatter trajectory than any other rimfire nor its MUCH better wind drift numbers nor even considering the enhanced speed at which Varmints, Wild Turkey and small game are struck when using the 17 HMR!
You Lawdog_Gary are simply wrong when you decree the 17 HMR as not being the "new wonder Varmint cartridge"!
The 17 HMR IS the new wonder Varmint rimfire cartridge!
If you were to actually buy a Rifle in caliber 17 HMR set it up with a powerful enough scope and use it extensively on a myriad of different types of Varmints like I have - you would come to the same conclusion I have!
I invite you to follow my suggestion and join in on the fun and efficiency of this new King of the Rimfires! Buy one set it up correctly and use it with eventual if not immediate GLEE!
I have Hunted in the last 3 years with Varminters who travelled to Montana from California, Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Utah, Texas, Conneticut, New York as well as Varminters from all across Montana! Once they see what the 17 HMR does in the Varmint fields lethality wise and trajectory wise they go out and buy themselves a 17 HMR! All of these folks are familiar with and know the attributes of the other rimfire cartridges - including the 22 Magnum, yet all of these Varminters and Rifle nuts went out and bought 17 HMR's and USED them happily thereafter! Accolades from all with no negative reports what so ever - hmmm...!
Hmmmm... again - my experiences and those of my "high volume" Varminting buddies surely differ from yours. Universal praise and admiration from me and my "homies" yet some negativity from you and your Coyote Hunting friend!
I will retort in those regards now!
AGAIN!
I think you and your friend are either not up to snuff field accuracy wise or are not using enough scope power to insure proper bullet placement of the 17 HMR's!
You obviously and admittedly do not have enough all around field experience with the 17 HMR to validly critique it - in my opinion!
I have, VERY successfully, shot many creatures at and way above your specious and arbitrary 12 pound limit - these creatures include Badgers, Coyotes, Porcupine, Wild Turkey along with some 10 pound + Rock Chucks!
My point again Law_Dog Gary, is, with the flatter trajectory of the 17 HMR projectiles, and the better wind bucking capability of the 17 HMR projectiles, and the improved inherent accuracy of the 17 HMR over all the other rimfires, along with the superior speeds of the 17 HMR bullets over Varmint and small game ranges the 17 HMR is simply superior to all other rimfires!
You are exactly wrong in your contention that the 17 HMR is not "the new wonder rimfire Varmint cartridge"!
It is!
I have not seen, in person, even ONE Varminter or small game Hunter that bought and used a 17 HMR that "forsaked" it and went back to any other rimfire!
Long live the new King of Rimfires - the 17 HMR!
Pardon my slow retort and correction of your latest posting. Its the holiday rush around SW Montana.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have a Volquartsen 17 HMR with a B&L 6-24 and truly love it for for anything smaller than coyotes (great rifle). Though I have not tried it on coyotes, I don't feel confident in it's ability to humanely nail a song dog or similar size critter at distances over 100 yds. For this purpose I go to my 223 or a larger cartridge.

Dr. Lou,

You are correct to not feel confident to humanely kill Coyotes with the .17 HMR. Those little 17 & 20 gr. bullets blow up on the rib bones of Coyotes. And on smaller game for the table the .17 HMR is way too explosive, ruins too much meat, to be a viable option. VarmintGuy wants everyone to believe that the .17 HMR is The New King of the rimfires and it isn’t and won’t be until the bring down the price of the ammo and come up with a bullet that doesn’t ruin game for the pot. That is not just my opinion but the opinion of many, many others. Lawdog

If you want to ensure getting an accurate .17 HMR, then go with the Marlin heavy-barreled model in whatever version suits you best. I've had 2 of these, and both shot splendidly.

I used the HMR a good bit for several years, and while I am certain it performs wonderfully on picket pins (we don't have 'em here) and such, anything larger or more tenacious than a grey fox (app. 10 pounds)should not be considered. It was quite unimpressive on 'coons, and even a number of 'possums required a coup de grace. I used both the 17 and 20 grain versions (the 20 grain XTP did the best of the two, however).

To make a long story short, I went back to the .22 Magnums. The .17 HMR is a joy to shoot, but it's simply not appropriate for the game in my area of the state.

You'll really like the Volquartsens. They're very well made and exceptionally accurate.

Lawdog_ Gary: You are the only person I have read or heard complain about the 17 HMR being TO explosive! Seems you are denying your own premise! If you are blowing up the eating parts of your Varmints and small game then simply re-read my posts that give detailed information on how to avoid that! Or do I sense some unfounded stubborness on your part. If so that is your problem! Yeah the 17 HMR IS explosive - right inside the heart/lung area of Varmints and small game! I agree with that.
I know I have eaten the Wild Turkeys I and my friends have harvested with the 17 HMR! The proper shot placement on Turkeys is the area at the base of the neck where it connects with the body. This area is the same size and shape as the triangle an adult human makes when he places his index finger tips and thumb tips together to form "a triangle"! I have killed Wild Turkey (several of them) with both 22 Long Rifles and 22 Magnums using this shot. And now I use the more accurate and flatter shooting 17 HMR for this type Hunting! It is simply common sense to use the better cartridge to Hunt these wonderful Game Birds with. Again careful shot placement - no wasted meat! And as GHD says DRT (dead right there)!
And indeed the 17 HMR does less damage to the edible parts of the Wild Turkeys than the shotgun killed Turkeys I have seen!
Again like I and others have suggested BASED ON ACTUAL EXTENSIVE FIELD EXPERIENCES (not rumor and unsubstantiated conjecture!) strike the creature in the head or neck if you intend to save them for the pot! Its much easier than you are making out - my man!
And as far as your repeated inference of the over-pricing of 17 HMR ammo goes I say along with your inability as a marksman you can add to your "unable to do list" the ability to shop carefully, buy in volume, watch for sales or SIMPLY to compare the costs of 17 HMR ammo versus 22 Magnum ammo - ESPECIALLY the Remington ammo you make reference to!
The 17 HMR IS the new King of rimfire Varmint cartridges and NOTHING what so ever you have burped forth with has me doubting my findings and extensive experiences ONE BIT!
You go buy a 17 HMR and use it for just one year on small game and Varmints (maybe Wild Turkeys are not legal for you to harvest with a 17 HMR where you Hunt so you can skip that?) and then come back with some real experience under your belt! I am sure you won't be singing the same tune you are now!
I am simply puzzled why you would attack the lethality of this fine new comer to the rimfire scene based on VIRTUALLY NO EXPERIENCE! So be it. I will defend this newcomer though based on much actual range and field useage AND on common sense.
And while you are trying to figure out a plausible retort to my experiences and contentions please explain why I am able to kill Coyote, Badger, Porcupine and the other creatures I Hunt with my 17 HMR and yet you contend it can't be done!
I mean I walked up to many of the creatures I have shot with my 17 HMR and they were lying there awfully still and they weren't breathing - I assumed they were dead! And I took some of them home and ate them - even though they weighed in excess of your specious 12 pound limit! I will be interested in that explanation!
I have relayed before that the Coyotes I have killed were just that KILLED! No run-offs to date!

Bobby Tomek: I know many folks in Montana that use the 17 HMR on both Fox (Red Fox) and Coyotes. With careful shot placement and at common sense ranges the 17 HMR users are fully satisfied with the lethality of the new King of Rimfire Varmint Cartridges on said game. As am I!
Now I have shot possums in the past but none since I moved to Montana 9 years ago. Possums are not difficult to kill at all and from what I have seen the 17 HMR do to much larger and much tougher Varmints (like Badgers, Rock Chucks and Porcupine) I am sure the possums are no match what so ever for the lethality of an even REASONABLY well placed shot from a 17 HMR! No possums in my region of Montana BUT there are lots of Racoons! Again carefully placed shots have quickly dispatched the ones I have come across!

Dr. Lou: I have a semi-secret region of Montana that only allows Coyote Hunting during the Rifle Big Game season! I use my 17 HMR in this area when I am there Hunting Big Game. The very mild report of the 17 HMR does not clear out the Deer and Elk (and other Coyotes!) whilst I am taking a break from pursuing the Big Game. In this region there is no use of electronics (lights or calls!) to aid in Coyote Hunting. So I must Hunt these over-abundant Varmints during daylight hours and with hand held calls! No problemo - just use the wonderful new king of the rimfire Varmint cartridges and you can cleanly harvest the Coyotes without scaring the Big Game into the next county!
I was SO impressed with my friend from Conneticuts Volquartsen in 17 HMR with the "jumbo" Leupold on it! Yeah I gotta have one of those fine semi-auto 17 HMR's!
The Coyotes I shot with my 17 HMR were dead quite quickly by the way! One spun a bit in a small circle but was done in less than 10 seconds. The other was head shot and died in its tracks. Dr. Lou don't get me wrong I have shot enough Coyotes to know there is no comparison with even the fine 17 HMR and any centerfire Varminter with a proper bullet! But don't let the anti-17 crowd sway you from trying a shot at Coyotes with your 17 HMR! At proper ranges and with CAREFUL shot placement you WILL bring to bag that Coyote.
I was back on the Volquartsen site last night and did not see the "long barrelled" 17 HMR offered like my friend got a couple years back! I think the only offerings in 17 HMR were 20.5" and 18.5" models. I am certain my friend had a 22" heavy barrel on his! Just more mass there for aiding in a steadier hold out in the field while shooting Varmints!
Do you find your Volquartsen is heavy enough to hold steady in field situations or do you have the itch for more weight in it at all?
Long live Volquartsen!
Long live the new King of Rimfire Varmint cartridges - the 17 HMR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I like the 18.5, but it's heavy. Anything longer would be way too heavy. But that's my taste. If you get one you'll be happy.

VarmintGuy,

quote:

You are the only person I have read or heard complain about the 17 HMR being TO explosive! Seems you are denying your own premise! If you are blowing up the eating parts of your Varmints and small game then simply re-read my posts that give detailed information on how to avoid that! Or do I sense some unfounded stubborness on your part.

Then you need to get to other forums beside this one. There are many that are complaining about the .17 HMR as being to explosive on small game intended for the pot. You must not have read ‘Bobby Tomek’ post here where he said,

quote:

anything larger or more tenacious than a grey fox (app. 10 pounds)should not be considered. It was quite unimpressive on 'coons, and even a number of 'possums required a coup de grace. I used both the 17 and 20 grain versions

You just don’t want to get it in your head that head shots are not always possible on game. One last time, I never said the .17 HMR wasn’t accurate. It just wasn’t that much more accurate than my M77/22M when I tested it against the M77/17 I got from the sporting goods store. The M77/17 already had a Bushnell(not my favorite brand for optics) 3200 5-15x 40mm scope mounted on it. I believe this to be magnification power for the .17 HMR as I have a Burris Signature 4-16x 44mm on my M77/22M and have never found myself wanting for more magnification. I am sorry if I offended your favorite rimfire but it’s not what you’re trying to make out of it. I will add this one last item. I checked three different sporting goods stores to see what they had on their consignment racks. Final total was 1 Marlin .22 WMR and 5 .17 HMR of different makes. I believe it is due to the cost of ammo why these .17 HMR’s were sitting on the racks but then again maybe the owners were just trying to get added money for Christmas. On that note you and your have a Merry Christmas and A Happy New Year. Lawdog

Law_Dog Gary: Why would a head shot not be possible on small game, Varmints, Wild Turkey and such? I spent the day viewing several species of Varmints from my view room windows today! I saw the heads on EVERY One of them! In addition late last night (8:00 P.M. is late in Montana!) I got a call from one of my Hunting partners and he wanted to borrow me and my calving sled to help him and his friend drag out a Bull Elk they had killed at 1:30 that day! I loaded up the VarmintMobile with drag sticks ropes and the larges sled and away we headed in the dark and the snow for an hours drive to the trailhead in question. I had put in my Ruger 77/17 in hopes of getting a now well furred Coyote without a lot of noside so to speak! Several Coyotes were seen but none in a shootable situation on our drive. All of their heads were visible! Three species of Rabbits were seen on the drive in and again all of their heads and necks were visible!
Three hours later when we had sledded that Bull out of the woods and to the VarmintMobile I was so sweated up and so tired that I recased the 17 HMR and just drove home! Again seeing not only several more Varmints (night Hunting for Varmints is legal in Montana) and their heads but now numerous head of Big Game including Elk, Mule Deer and Whitetails were seen - all with heads prominently displayed! I am not swayed one bit by your "heads and necks not there" argument! We got home around 2:00 A.M. this morning!
I do not shoot Ground Squirrels, Prairie Dogs, feral Cats, Skunks, Raccoons, Jack Rabbits, Porcupine and the like in the head! I shoot them in the heart/lung area and they drop! Plus I have the added benefit of much flatter trajectory, more accuracy, less wind drift and faster bullet speed when game is struck with the 17 HMR! So dead is the norm.
Law_Dog Gary for you to imply that the average (and the special) 22 Magnums are as accurate as 17 HMR's - especially out in the fields, just flies in the face of what I and a legion of people I trust have found out in the last 3 years! The 17 HMR cartrdige is much more accurate than the 22 Magnum. Yeah I, the number one opponent of "blanket statements" is making this blanket statement!
Its one of the few you will ever hear or see me make! Its again based on decades of testing of various brands and qualities of arms!
I get to more forums than 99% of the folks do. I retired at age 49 and have "them all" on my address list and visit them virtually every couple of evenings unless I am on Safari! I choose to post on this one more than any of the others - its a personal thing
I get the distinct impression that way more people are enjoying and standing by their 17 HMR's than not! Way MORE!
You want to quote sales numbers then you had better be able to back them up! I had one Gunstore owner in my home this several times this spring, he was out from the west coast. I asked him directly how are the 17 HMR sales compared to the 22 Magnum. He replied unhesitatingly "the 17 HMR is outselling the 22 Magnum by at least 10 to 1"!
I have other examples of this situation if you need more!
Yeah, don't try and tell me or anyone else that the 22 Magnum is "nearly" as accurate or "nearly" as flat shooting or "nearly" as fast or "nearly" as lethal as the 17 HMR! Your biased and unfounded views of the 17 HMR are similar to Bill Clintons view of what is, IS! How do you define NEARLY, Law_Dog Gary? Or maybe you will leave that question unanswered like many previous questions I have posed to you!
So be it.
But again I am listening and waiting for even the least bit of persuasive evidence you might have escalating some other rimfire to a postion above that of the 17 HMR.
I have heard or seen NOT one bit of evidence from you in that regard.
Re-read my posts man! Hit the Coyote in the head or in the heart/lungs at a reasonable range and it will succumb! If you want to shoot them at 300 yards or mash them over get a 220 Swift! But there are times and places where the 17 HMR can be put to use on these creatures. I and many people I know have done it successfully!
I was hoping you would not mention accuracy again - even though your latest posting is ambiguous on this point - non specific and Bill Clintonish to a fault!
I will tell you how accurate my Ruger 77/17 V is. It has yet to shoot a five shot group at 100 yards of more than 1.000" in size! Its best load testing group (again) was .502" and this was done with a factory stock Rifle with a moderate powered scope!
It IS consistently and amazingly accurate! Like many of the CZ's, Marlins, Remingtons, Volquartsens, NEF's, Coopers and Savages in 17 HMR I have seen performing - first hand!
Your consignment rack is EXACTLY the opposite of what I have observed in my extensive travels this year! I have been from Texas to Washington and Oregon to Wyoming along with Iowa and Nebraska, Utah, Idaho and all places in between - I pay special attention to the used gun racks and the consignment sales. In addition I have gone to dozens of Gunshows in Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Montana - this year alone. Again here at these venues your single observation is EXACTLY the opposite of my extensive observations!
Again, Law_Dog Gary I contend you are shooting your "potable" quarry in the wrong spot! The explosiveness of the 17 HMR on small game and Varmints IS A SELLING POINT for it! If you do not want the edible flesh of small game or Varmints exploded then do EXACTLY what you contend is not always possible - shoot them in the head or the neck!!! I can do it! YOU can do it!
I contend its just about ALWAYS possible to do this! And its much easier to do it with the 17 HMR than with any other rimfire! Again due to the enhanced accuracy of the 17 HMR, its flatter trajectory and it superior wind bucking ability!
Or can't you grasp that concept as yet?
It SEEMS you can't get that bit of reality into YOUR head!
Offend away at my favorite rimfire cartridge all you care to - but you had better have some evidence when you try it, as I simply no longer suffer "foolishnesh" with the grin and bear it attitude that I once did!
Please TRY to answer some of my direct questions I have made of you in my previous posts.
Especially the one regarding my harvesting the 20+ pound Badger, the 20+ pound Turkeys, the 30+ pound Coyotes and the 18+ pound Porcupines etc. - with my 17 HMR.
Again I strongly suggest you buy, own, possess and use (at least to a moderate extent!) a 17 HMR before you try to pass of half-truths and baseless innuendos about it. I am not in the mood to let these specious and unfounded accusations stand without my proving them wrong!
I mean no offense to you and your family either Law_Dog Gary and I sincerely wish you would receive a 17 HMR Rifle with an adequate scope on it for Christmas!
Long live the new King of Rimfires - the 17 HMR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy,

I wish I lived and hunted in a land where head shots where always an option. Unfortunately I live and hunt in the real world where head shots aren’t always an option. Coyotes that stop with their heads behind brush and when they do move it’s to run the other way. Small game that won’t hold their heads still for more than a split second, not nearly long enough to be able to line up on their heads. If you have never seen a .22 WMR that will shoot under MOA then your experience is very limited. My 77/22M with it’s 22†Green Mountain barrel and Timney trigger does it all the time. Heck my son’s M10/22M with it’s 22†Green Mountain barrel will do it too. Like I said if you like the .17 HMR, GREAT. But you’re not going to pull the wool over my eyes or the eyes of many, many others that the .17 HMR is anything more than a small pest killer. With that this threat is yours. Have a Happy Holiday Season. See you on another thread. Lawdog

I'll wade in here and give my oppinion on the 17hmr. I think its just about the most fun rimfire there is to shoot, quiet, accurate, and great at much longer ranges than are normally considered rimfire ranges. Me and some buddies of mine regularly have side bets on who can hit the pop can the most times at 200 and even 300 yards. Unfortunately 300 yards is kind of a once-n-awhile proposition. 200 yard hits are consistant though.

As to its effect on game I would have to say that it is probably the best fox gun I have ever seen. It will consistantly anchor even large fox with no perceivable pelt damage. I personally haven't shot any coyotes with it but I have shot fox and coons and the results were very satisfactory. Bang-flops are the norm. I tend to hunt in some areas where there are no coyotes and fox are rather prevelent. In those situations I use the 17 HMR, its better than the 12gr that I would normally use on fox. I do most of my predator hunting with either a 222, 223, or 22-250. While all of these work great on coyots and wolves they are a little much for fox and most cats. I have yet to find a lot that would consistantly give the results on fox that I was looking for, normaly they were much too destructive. That even goes for teh 22 hornet, I've had a few and while nice little guns would still be a little rougher on fox than I liked. My best centerfire fox load is a 40gr sierra HP over a load of bluedot for just over 2000fps. always an exit but usually small.

I normally shoot the 17gr v-max bullets out of my HMR but found that the 17gr HP penetrate much better and the 20gr xtp better still. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a coyote at reasonable range, 100 yards or less, if I happened upon one with the HMR. I do think its a little light for coyote though. I have spoken to several people who use them, mostly at night when centerfire rifles are prohibited, with mixed results. From what I gather the people that try to push the range envelope are the ones that have had poor luck. I know one guy in particular that has shot 74 in a row with his, all of these at night with the 20gr xtp and most under 75 yards. Coyote with thier heavy fur, thicker skin, and heavier bones would require very good bullet placement but would be doable. I also wouldn't trust it at long range on any of the larger predators or varmints. Its deadly on snowshoes out to 200 yards though.

If I was strictly after coyotes or in areas where coyotes or wolves are available I would definately go with something in the 222-22-250 range and iether let the fox walk or live with some pelt damage. If I was fox or coon hunting and a coyote came within a reasonable range I wouldn't think twice to take a good shot, but would have to pass if he was on the far side of 100 yards. I always felt the same way about my 22 mag though too. Don't underestimate the tenacity of coyotes, I shot one with a 150gr bullet out of a 7mm rem mag and had to track it almost 100 yards. I didn't think there was that much blood in such a small animal. If they are all jazzed up and running they can take a lot of killing.

thebear, Nuff said!!!
I won't shoot a bull in the ass with a BB gun and expect him to fall either!!! But the 17HMR FROM AN ACCURRACY STANDPOINT IS SO FAR AHEAD OF THE 22'S or 22MAG's, it's a no brainer!!!
And somebody posting here bitched about the ammo price....Mid-South has either the 17 or the 20 grain Hornady loading at $7.18/50!!!! Last time I checked the 33 grain(REM) 22MAG loading at he local shop was $9.95/50!! Cost is not a barrier to effectiveness and accurracy!!!
I shot some sub-1" (several!!!)groups today(100yards) usingCCI-STINGERS in a 581Remington(1670fps) and feel like they'd do a job on small varmints! But I know without question, the 17HMR will "Git-er-done!!!"
And LawDog, Your friend that makes a living out of shooting varmints.......needs to learn to shoot!!! Think what he could make if he was good at it!!! GHD

Law_Dog Gary: I take your latest posting as a complete concession to my contentions!
Your refusal to answer even the simplest and most direct of my questions has rendered the verdict on you and your specious contentions - let that be noted here!
As for pulling wool over eyes - I think you had better do a mea culpa in that regard as well my friend!
You have next to no experience with a fine cartridge you try to berate basing your argument on not being able to see Varmints and small games heads? Well you sir simply need to get out and do SOME small game and Varmint Hunting - maybe about 1/20th as much as I have done over the last 49 years! I am certain you will see the error of your ways once you have achieved that.
To add to what "Thebear_78" and others have knowledge of I know a Coyote and Fox Hunter here in SW Montana that as of last winter had killed over 40 Coyotes with his 17 HMR! He plans on using it again this fur season the last I heard from him!
He is one of those that is still gathering Coyotes for their pelts! By the way pelt prices are said to be expected to continue their modest rising in value, again this year!
If, said Coyote, stops with its head behind a bush and its body exposed (which by the way is a VERY RARE situation on a called Coyote - called in Coyotes almost always have their heads held high and are on full alert mode when coming in to a call - day or night!) then simply shoot the Coyote in the heart/lung area and get your skinning knife out!
Its just about time for the cattle to start calving here (late December, January and February) and its very typical for the ranchers to have their cattle on the ranch with the about to drop females nearest the ranch houses. Many Hunters in my area get permission to Hunt Coyotes near these "close in" fields and pens. This type Hunting concentrates on the Coyotes that constantly circle these fields and corrals sniffing for newborn calves and/or afterbirth. My firend Brad makes extra money during those months by standing guard all night over the fields and loading up the newborn calves on calving sleds and sliding them to the calving sheds. He recently bought a NEF Handi-Rifle in 17 HMR to shoot the numerous Coyotes that pester his employers animals. A 220 Swift would wake up all the ranch hands AND the owners family! Ergo - the 17 HMR was chosen after Brad witnessed what my 17 HMR does on Varmints of all sizes.
By the way - Brad and I were Hunting Coyotes at night a couple of years back in January. He had the night off from "calving duty" and another rancher he knew was having Coyote troubles. We drive to the Coyote calling set-up spot he had chosen and it was literally UNDER THE WINDOWS of the ranch house! Here we were at midnight with centerfire Varminters and my main man wants to set up 50 yards from the ranch house! I simply would not bring my Rifle out of the truck! I did the calling and handled the red filter spotlight. Not four minutes into our calling 5 (FIVE) Coyotes start across the huge fenced corral towards us! Brad got two and wounded another with his 223! I got our rechargeable flashlights and we started tracking the wounded Coyote over hill and valley. We were spotting a fair amount of blood and the further the Coyote got from civilization the easier it was to track. Worrying our flashlights would fade on us we tracked in the dim moonlight. Every once in a while I would shine ahead with the spotlight and see the Coyote 200 or 300 yards ahead and limping for cover. Sad situation - but it got worse! About 45 minutes into the track we spot the Coyote and this time it was bedded and only 100 yards ahead. Brad shot it again and INSTANTLY a huge herd of Buffalo begin a stampede! We had inadvertently crossed onto one of Ted Turners Buffalo ranches and the stampede caused by the centerfire Rifle shot began what could have been a personally VERY dangerous stampede. Luckily those big Buffs (we apparently were in the Buffalo Bulls only pasture!) went the other way. All we could do was shine the spotlight and the flashights around until the stampede threat was gone!
I could have killed that wounded Coyote with a 17 HMR but I am not sure that the much milder report of the 17 HMR would have started that stampede or not.
I tend to think not.
And I know I would have used that 17 HMR that close to the ranch house as opposed to the centerfires I had along that night.
Negative again on the 22 Magnum fallacy you are trying to pass! I have owned and tried quite a number of them for accuracy! Anschutz's, Marlins, Winchesters, Rugers and etc. None of them came ANYWHERE near the accuracy that I COMMONLY see produced by various 17 HMR's!
The best shooting 22 Magnum I ever owned is a Marlin bolt action! In 15+ plus years of trying I got it to break 1.000" for 5 shots at 100 yards exactly once! And that was when I had a 6x24 power variable scope on it!
I kind of feel sorry for the stalwart little Marlin as it simply has sat home so much since I learned how wonderful the 17 HMR performs!
Long live the new King of Rimfires - the 17 HMR!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG;What is the latest on your S&W 17HMR,I am thinking of buying one and cutting it to 5 inches for a carry field gun.What are your thoughts on that and what brand ammo have you found to be the most accurate?I have a 22mag on a K-frame 4 inch,and it doesent shoot consistent and is really finicky about ammo.w/regards

Gophershooter: The latest (THIRD) S&W Model 647 I've owned shoots like a house on fire!
I mounted a 4 power pistol scope on it and will be scouring the Gunshows, hock shops and Gunshops this winter for a good deal on a silver finished higher powered pistol scope! This baby can use more scope power as it is a tack driver when held tightly in my giant "X" type sand bags (Dog Gone Good brand bag).
The single action trigger on this one is just wonderful and again it shoots extremely well. I have killed several species of Varmints with it and I bought a nifty "Hunter" brand pistol pouch for it!
It goes along on all manner of excursions with me here in the Rockies!
In the latest (2,005?) Smith & Wesson catalog they no longer show the Model 647! I still see them on occassion in Gunshops and sometimes at reduced prices!
I highly recommend the pistol to you and pray that you do not get two lemmons in a row like I did (remember the one shot four inch groups at 25 yards and the bullets all keyholed - no rifling in the barrel! And the other shot 8" groups at 25 yards and even the factory could not figure out why). The head smith called to apologize personally to me about the second one and said normally those pistols are the most accurate they put out!
I have talked to several folks that own the M-647's and they all rave about the accuracy and the nifty little 17 HMR's performance of theirs! My good friend Jack had a Taurus clone of this pistol and it may have been an "eight shooter besides? His shot extremely well also.
His was an 8 3/8" barrel model. Maybe the Taurus folks make shorter barreled versions of their 17 HMR revolver?
Like you I sold my S&W Model 48 (?) in 22 Magnum with 8 3/8" barrel when this one shot so well! I have tried all three 17 grain plastic tip munitions in my newest 647 and it shoots the Remington about the best! Some say they are the same exact ammo but both my Ruger 77/17 V and this pistol shoot the Remington the best. I have not tried any of the 20 grainers or hollowpoints as yet!
The 8 3/8" model with scope attached would definitely be a burden for back packing but with a good shoulder holster it would go along pretty well on one or two mile jaunts!
If you could retain the accuracy and most of the velocity the 5" model would sure be handy!
I wish I could be more specific in that regard for you!
Good luck if you try one!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy