The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Small Calibers 25-06 or 25WSM?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| 25-06 or 25WSM? | Login/Join |
| one of us |
I have missed having a 25-06 around. I could really use one for wolves and coyotes.(Been using my .338) Pelt damage is not a consern. Flat trajetory is. I have been thinking of a 257 WSM. Is there any real advantage of going with a 25 WSM over the good old 25-06 in your opinion? Daryl | ||
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| one of us |
id go for the 25-06(in fact I have) and let the 25wsm die on its own. If you want something silly, get one of the more "common" 25 caliber wildcats. Take care smallfry | |||
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| one of us |
chuck66... For those who care those are all good reasons. Take care smallfry | |||
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| one of us |
Yukoner...although they aren't .25's, take a look at the performance of both the 6mm-284 and the 6.5-284...... either will provide the performance you want and I think there is a much better supply and variety of bullets available compared to the .25's especially if you decide to go a quick-twist barrel for use with long bullets (great at bucking the wind).....plus you have access to great Lapua brass. To answer your question...I would build a 25-284 especially to use the Lapua brass. | |||
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one of us |
Do what ever makes you happy! But to my mind you can't beat the 25-06. For no real reason, I am not, nor will I ever be a fan of the wsm family, ultra mags and the like. There are myriad cartridges that already exist and will do the job just fine, e.g. 25-06 (reg/AI), 257 (reg/AI)Bob, 250 savage, or the 257 Weatherby,etc. | |||
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| one of us |
Have you considered the 257 Weatherby Mag? It will do everything the 25-06 will and then some. | |||
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| one of us |
I would like you to make it a 25 WSM just so I could see what the results are. I have a very old Rem 722 that I made into a 25-284 back in 1965. The barrel is basically shot out in the throat even though the accuracy and velocity are still outstanding - and I am considering rebarreling to the 25 WSM if the bolt face can be modified and there are no feed issues. I would expect 3400 fps with a 120 gr would be possible - this load would definately reach out and touch someone - should basically duplicate 257 Weatherby performance which if I remember correctly was Roy Weatherby's favorite round. I don't think I have seen any actual ballistic data from any of the board members yet on this round. 25-06 is fine but the reason I like this board is I'm fascinated by something new and other members experiences. I will probably never own a 30-06 because I would be bored with its all around outstanding performance. I like the brackets above and below. Was really hoping that Winchester would bring out this round instead of the 6mm WSSM - which if I figure right is a 6mm Remington in a stunted fat sheeps clothing - but I look forward to reading other members experiences when it hits the market. | |||
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| one of us |
At equal pressures, the .25 WSM should yield about 50 to 100 fps or so more velocity than a .25-06 in equivalent barrels (and this will require more, not less, powder). If you are especially interested in using a "short" action (but the Rem 700 and Sako L579 are too short) and don't mind giving up a couple of rounds of magazine capacity, the the WSM would be of interest to you. If using a shorter action is not important to you, then you're probably better off with the .25-06 (or the Ackley or Gibbs versions if you wish) and its plentiful and inexpensive brass, greater magazine capacity, and the potential advantage of readily available factory loads. Rifleman is a bit overly optimistic on the velocity potential of a .25 WSM. A .264 Winchester Magnum with its larger capacity case and bore will not normally reach 3400 fps with a 120 grain bullet at acceptable pressures, and it is a cinch that a .25 WSM will fall short of its larger cousin. | |||
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| one of us |
Agree - 3400 fps may be pushing it - but reviewing some other reloading sites for the 257 Weatherby many reloads were well over 3300 fps for 120 gr bullets (26" barrel) - again this is in the Weatherby case and I'm not sure of the case capacity difference between the WSM and Weatherby rounds. | |||
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| one of us |
If I could and if it were legal I would go with a Stoner AR15 in .243, .260 or .308. With a couple of 20 round mags, I would be in business. Back to reality, I have had great performance out of a 25-06. I have always wanted to try out a 257 Weatherby. I would prefer a short action, though. I know the 25 WSM will be a real preformer. But I had forgotten about the 25-284. DB Bill Do you know offhand if a 117gr. bullet seated to the base of the neck(25-284) will fit in a M700(short action)Mag box? Daryl | |||
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| one of us |
Yukoner... I own a 257 wby, but it doesnt get shot much right now. It has had some serious accuracy issues, guns fault not the 257wby cartridge. I will come back to it but for now I have been shooting my 2506 and 250 savage (what a truly great round) | |||
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| one of us |
I have a 25-284 that is chambered in an older Remington 722 - short action - same as Model 700 -in fact the bolt and detachable trigger guard/magazine are from a model 700. Magazine is relatively short but seating 115-120 gr bullets is fine. Only modification made was to recut the chamber - no feed work needed. With 53 gr IMR 4831 the velocity is 3050 fps (24")and this rifle will shoot 3 shot 1/2" groups all day with just about any load. Most of the animals I shot with this rifle were with 115-120 gr bullets - fine caliber. However, in my experience, the most lethal and also most meat damaging loads are with 100 gr driven at near 3400 fps. I used it with 75 gr hp to shoot jack rabbits - overkill but good practice on running rabbits. Shot coyotes with 100 gr and pelt damage can be significant. Also shot a bull carribou in Alaska when I was in the service back in the 60's - 117 gr - dropped in his tracks. | |||
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| <bullseye> |
I'd buy a Weatherby Super Predator Master or Accumark. Their as good as a custom rifle with their quality and Kreiger barrels at half the cost. I believe Weatherby has shrunk their accuracy guarantee from 2" to 1" since using Kreiger barrels. The 257 Weatherby is one bad momma. A coyote cremater! Just my opinion. I will add I own a 300 Weatherby Accumark that literally stacks bullet holes on bullet holes with my hand loads. Their accuracy guarantee is for factory ammo. Hard to beat that and pinpoint accuracy is a must for a yote 500 yards out and the 257 is still singin` along at that range. | ||
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| <bullseye> |
I did some further research on Weatherby and their accuracy guarantee and their rep. said its 1 1/2" on all rifles with factory ammo. Just wanted my info to be accurate as possible. I've always been a die hard Remington fan and still think a lot of their products, but after owning a Weatherby I'll never own anything but a Weatherby in a caliber bigger than 22. The 1 1/2 inch guarantee is gravy, especially with hand loads. | ||
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| one of us |
Thanks guys for the replies, I ordered a SS 24" 1-9" twist # 4 contour barrel for a Rem 700 short action. It will be chambered in 25-284. I will mostlikely stock it with a Rimrock or an HS Precision. I have a 3.5 X 10 Leupold for it. I was just thinking that maby a 26" barrel would be better.... IT may not be too late to change. One day I will go with a 257 Weatherby and it will be in a Weatherby rifle. Daryl | |||
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| <Big Stick> |
Flinch's 26" barreled 25-284,is almost 100fps faster than my 23" and 24" barreled 25-284's,with the 100gr XLC. Both of mine will crack the 3400fps barrier and he's in the 3500fps AO. No flies on the 257Wby,but you already knew that.............. | ||
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| new member |
I just got to get my two bits in. I've killed more deer with a 25-06 than any other caliber. You definately can't go wrong with it. I currently have a 25 WSM in a Ruger #1. I get 3300 FPS out of a long 28" barrel with a 115 Gr. Ballistic Tip. That's pretty good performance, but that's nothing the 257 Weatherby can't do. Sounds like fun what ever you decide. | |||
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| <John Lewis> |
Excellent choice Yukoner, the .25-284 is an outstanding cartridge. The .25 WSM, as Winchester is proposing to make it, probably won't be any faster than the .25-06 or the .25-284. The 25-284 will undoubtedly feed better than the WSM and the quality of brass available is much better. I for one, refuse to join in the head-over-heels approbation of the WSM's. Most of the WSM owners remind me of reformed drunks, not only have they embraced their new interest with great zeal. They can't understand why everyone else doesn't wholeheartedly embrace their newfound joy. ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} | ||
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| one of us |
A 25 WSM should hold about 80 grs of water and a 257 Weatherby holds 89 grains and also has a freebored throat. The marketplace rejected the 284 Winchester case long ago. The reason is plain and simple. The cartridge looks wrong! It may feed ok but it looks like the bolt face might ride up over the small base. The base might be strong but it looks weak and unsupported. This topic is about wildcats and personal cartridges. They don't have to make sense or be popular to please someone. The WSM's are here to stay and more are coming. It breaks down this way. Gunsmiths like replacing good barrels with wildcats and working on Mauser actions. Gun companies like new cartridges. It's all about the money. | |||
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| <John Lewis> |
Savage99 - as is proposed by Winchester at this time, the .25 WSM won't hold 80 grains of water, probably about 10 grains less. What they are planning is to use the WSSM case, which is shortened. The .284 size cases are experiencing a resurgence in popularity due to Norma and Lapua making good quality brass. Very few gunsmiths that I know of chamber the .257 Wthby with all of that freebore. I have two reamers, one with a long throat and one with a short. I just shot a .257 Wthby that I'd re-barrelled yesterday. 100 grain Nosler Partitions under 1/2" at 3600 fps. I doubt that will ever happen with a .25 WSM. | ||
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The only guy that will make a mistake is the guy that sells one to get the other. They are too similar. I faced the same choice. I had always wanted a .300 Win Mag. but never could find a good enough reason to buy it. When they came out with the 300 WSM that pushed me over the edge, and made me reach for my wallet. If I had already had the .300 Win I would never have bought the WSM. | |||
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| one of us |
how about the 25stw? i know it's a long action but is it over the top for over bore? what would you suspect the difference in velocities to be? just curious. i have a rem action and nothing to do with it at the moment. woofer | |||
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| <John Lewis> |
The 257 STW is way, way over the top overbore. I did a few .25-300 Wins. and they don't give a whole lot more velocity thatn the .257 Wthby. using a good bit more powder. The STW is even worse. | ||
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| one of us |
If I were in the Yukon and wanted another rifle to go with a .338 WM I would consider a 270 or 7MM. With such a rifle big game would be within it's ability. Not that a 6MM or 25 will not take some big game but I view coyote hunting as a side line when you only have a .338. Better to get a rifle that will do it all. | |||
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| one of us |
Savage99, ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif){kind=icon} Currently, I have a 7mmstw, and a 30-338 as well as my 338. I have been using my .338 because it is my "beater" rifle. The only small bore I have now is a .222Rem. It is too inadequate for wolves and long range coyotes. I agree with you about a " do it all rifle" and fought that Idea for a long time. I decided to go with a .257 that I could exclusively use for coyotes,wolves and whitetail.I was thinking of using my 45-70 for hunting coyotes from the house. Daryl | |||
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| <Savage 99> |
Ok it's a .257? If it's a .257 Weatherby then I would not chamber it with nothing but the standard freebore/chamber as sure enough someone along the line will fire a factory round in there. I don't give the .25 calibers much thought as they are too small to be a good game round and too big to be a good varminter. Sort of a master of no trade. | ||
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| one of us |
Savage, I agree with you to a certian degree. I felt strongly the same way. Then i did some big game hunting with a 25-06 and to my suprise realized how effective it can be. I would not recomend the 25-06 or similar classed cartriges to a novice for an all around rifle, but to an experienced hunter, that is a different story. Just for the sake of it, I was thinking of hunting everything for one season, including Yukon moose and grizzly with the 25/284. I would use Partitions or TrophyBonded. Of course, on the bigger or dangerous stuff I would wait for Ideal conditions. For experience sake. Daryl | |||
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| <John Lewis> |
Savage99 - once agian I have to disagree with you, at least partially. I think the .25s might be a little big for varmints, but they are definitely fine big-game cartridges, as long as the game isn't too big. For any game up to 200 lbs. there isn't anything any more effective. The .25s seem to be balanced perfectly for southern whitetailed deer and pronghorns. | ||
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| <Savage 99> |
I am in my camp today in Vermont. It's snowing out and was 10 below the other night and the bears are hibernating. But for a one gun hunter in patty cake New England a small bore does not make a lot of sense. The bear season opens here on Sept 1st and ends in the middle of Nov. In some nearby states it's open longer. I see little sense in carrying a .25 when one can have say a .308 Win that will get by with a shorter barrel too! Now there are a lot of big boys on this forum who have many rifles and know what bullet to use on stuff. Of course a .25 will cut it but I would like to get the specifics on so and so's 25/06 and see how handy a rifle it really is. When the chucks come out in the spring a .25 would make a good long range blaster but where noise or richocetts are a concern it will not be anything but a master of no trade. | ||
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one of us |
Here is 1 1/2 cents. It is funny how many times these topics come up and half of the replies are so staunchly against one of the posters original calibers. In this case the 25wsm. And thin people talk about my 25 so and so super gun shoots 39,000 fps. My deal is when we take cases with a deviation of no more than 5 or 6 grains either way, thin I cant see where a person could go wrong. As far as speed in an individual rifle I�ll tell you what the owner of Speed Tac (chronograph maker) told me one time. �A chronograph is like religion; you should believe what you chose � The question I asked him was, when shooting my bow, why does one stores chrony give 15 fps faster speed than mine and another stores chrony give 15 fps slower. I�m sure his answer can be applied to rifles. The only thing at this point we should discuss or advise on are which ones are easiest to get to function, which ones appeal to you the most and availability of brass. I guess you could say I am one of those fence riders who thinks there no bad cartridges. I will even go as far as to say your scope choice would make as much difference as to hold over (40mm vs. 50mm) or your bullet choice would make as much difference with trajectory (B.C.) as the 50 or 75 fps we are talking in 25-284,25-06, 25wsm or 257Weatherby. Now for my other 1/2 cents. If I were not building a 250 AI right now it would be a 25-284. More power to the 25s. | |||
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one of us |
I went the 25WSM route. the rifle just got finished and I've got rounds loaded (100gr Nosler Partitions and Sierra HPBT) in 1/2 grain increments. I'll report back in a few days and let you know how it went. I agree with John Lewis though, I don't think 3600FPS is in the cards for this round, but it should perform very well. This is my 1st wildcat and I've had a lot of fun and learned a little along the way. Terry | |||
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one of us |
quote:Of the 25-06: Never saw a deer that could handle a Hornady 100gr Soft Point. Never saw a coyote that could handle a 75gr Hollow Point. Never had a problem with the 75gr's on p-dogs, either. They came in real handy on some of Nebraska's windier days when the 22-250 rounds were gettin' blown all over the place. "The bear season opens here on Sept 1st and ends in the middle of Nov. In some nearby states it's open longer. I see little sense in carrying a .25 when one can have say a .308 Win that will get by with a shorter barrel too!" No argument here, but who besides you was sayin' a thing about huntin' bar with a 25cal???? ![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| one of us |
my one and only elk hunt was in the handle in idaho. we hunted with a local guy. he was about 6'4" and 300 lbs. the only gun he haid carried in the last 20 years was a 25-06 rem 700 or older model. dont remember. it looked as if godzilla had used it for a toothpick. but it would shoot. he had killed over 40 elk with it and to many deer to count. a couple of black bears too. the thing looked like a 22 in his hands but he could shoot it. well constructed bullet placed in the right spot will kill anything was his advice. if you dont have the shot, dont take it. simple woofer | |||
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| <Pablo> |
quote: | ||
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| <Pablo> |
SAv99, I was under the impression the WSM's were rebated cartridges1! I know the Rem ultra's & short ultra's are. Remingon is guilty of advertisig comparable performance with 24" barrels, , then they produce only 22" barrels. Sounds more like "MARKETIG B/S" to me. quote: | ||
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