I was reading a thread somewhere about a guy who had a contender barrel made up for the 17 mach IV based on the 357 case instead of the fireball. Said the contender liked rimmed cases better. Anyone here do this? how well does it work? Thanks.

Ranb

Some time back in G&A magazine, Ross Seyfried profiled a number of 17 cal cartridges, including one based on a 357 mag case and in general terms a rimmed case is better for single shot rifles.

However, the 17 Mach IV is only a 17 Mach IV when it is formed from 221 Fireball cases (or 222 or 223 in a pinch). A 17 cartridge formed from a 357 case might have similar capacity and ballistics to a 17 Mach IV and load data MAY even be interchangeable between the two cases, but a 17/357 is not a 17 Mach IV!

Fergus

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http://www.angelfire.com/ab/fergus

That's all fine, but what I was tryng to find out is if the so called 17/357 is any harder to form than the 17 mach IV and if it shoots well in a custum barrel from someone like Bullberry, VVG, or Bellm. Would I be able to use the same forming dies as the 17 mach IV? Thanks.

Ranb

Ranb,

The 17 MKIV rimmed is formed from 357 MAX or 360 DW brass, not 357 Mag. The round based on the 357 Mag. case is called the 17 Jet and is usually formed from 22 jet brass. It is quite easy to form using even Bullberry's double ended form die when starting with the Jet brass. If you try to use 357 mag brass you will need the proper form dies. 17 MKIV dies can not be used to reload the 17 Jet. Forming 17 MKIV rimmed brass from the Max or DW brass will also require a set of form dies but can use the standard 17 MKIV dies to reload.

HTH,
Tim

Thanks for the info. I have not heard of the 17 jet and it is not in my book of cartridge conversions or barnes book of cartridges. I will probably get a 17 mach IV rimmed next year.

Ranb

the 17 Jet and the 17MK4 Rimmed are NOT the same, the 17MK4 from a 357 MAX case is a 17MK4 rimmed, they are the same size but one is rimmed

the Jet be it really close is off a little bit,

It is like the 17 Hebee and the 17 AckleyBee one has a little longer neck

As for forming, I know forming 17 Jet from 22 Jet is not realy easy, so to form a 17 MK4 out of 357 Max will have to be done in steps and I think it has to be annealed twiced while working it down

That's probably one of my shooting buddies with the rimmed Mk IV. As was previously mentioned, brass is formed from 360 brass, not .357 brass. He said he annealed the cases 2 or 3 times, and worked down with a 300 whisper die, 256 win mag, 221 fireball, a 20 caliber, and then the 177 dies. The barrel has an extractor that allows the use of either rimmed or rimless rounds.

I'm a big fan rimmed rounds in the contender, and will go to the effort of forming cases, but man, thats alot of work to make brass! The up side is the gun is great fun to shoot, from the 14" barrel, he's pushing 25's 3600 fps.

Another buddy had a 17 Jet improved made for a contender carbine. As I recall he used a bullberry 20/17 cal to neck it down, then he blew the cases out. I don't remember how long the barrel was, but he was able to push 25 grainers 4000 fps. This was another fun gun to shoot.

If you're interested in loading data, I can e-mail the guys, and see what they have. One of them is on vacation, so might be a couple weeks before I hear back from him.

I had a barrel ordered for the 17IV rimmed case. While I was waiting on the barrel I tried forming cases with 300 whisper, 221 from dies (221 from 223) and 17IV from dies. I did not have very much luck. Even when annealing before every step. I had about 40% loss. I tried annealing at different times and found that annealing too often is wrose than not annealing at all. The final step from 22cal to 17 cal gives the shoulder tiny wrinkles in some of the cases. Lucky the shop frogot to cut the rim!!!

There is some very good info on the net about the 17 jet but for most people not really into the subcalibers I think the 17 hornet will serve you better. One more thing I do from the 300 whisper rimmed from 357 max with no loss. That 17cal is just tough to get from a 35 cal case.

I have a .17 Jet and can tell you that I form from 22 Jet brass and the case volume is very similar to the Mach IV. Forming brass is not difficult but requires some time. It isn't as easy as forming for the Mach IV - but then again the Mach IV is as easy as it gets. I do prefer the rimmed case in the single shots. I have a picture of most .17 wildcats on my small caliber site if you want to get a visual of what they look like next to each other.

www.saubier.com

I am the guy Paul H was referring to above. The problem with the .360 DW brass is that it is made by Starline and is HARD. Just going down to .300 Whisper rimmed will leave longitudinal cracks in the case if you do not anneal.
One thing about the Mach IV is that its shoulder is set back slightly from the .221 Fireball - a design flaw. I do not know about RCBS form dies, but when using a Bullberry double ended die you will get a slight wrinkle in the case just below the shoulder. This blows out fine on firing. But when using the hard .360 DW brass and annealing it several times, this becomes a problem. The solution is to use a .256 Win Mag die to set the shoulder back slightly early on in the process. You might still get a slight wrinkle on the final sizing to .17 Mach IV but you won't loose cases.
Using this process I formed 50 cases without loosing one - though I did loose about 20 before I determined how to avoid the pitfalls.
Stay with it because it can be done.
Rob

Hi all. I made up a Wickliff in something similar awhile back. Used the Bertram 222 Rimmed and shortened it. Brought the neck down to 17 in the Bulberry neck thingy[excellent tool] and finally ran them into the 17 Mach 4 dies. Ended up with a "flanged" 17. Shoots great and the brass has lasted forever. Aloha, Mark[in Ore]

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