I just picked up the finest 22 Hornet bolt action rifle I have yet to see and the first one Ive ever seen.

A Griefelt & Sons, Suhl, Germany...It weighs 5.5 lbs, 22" lwt. wt. barrel, iron sights, left side flip down safety that starts on the right and flips over, scope friendly and has Talley type scope rings and bases sans the levers...A beautiful piece of European walnut with a prince of whales grip that has outstanding checkering and stock finish, and the inletting is excellent beautiful inletting, creepy Mauser 98 type trigger, but soft and smooth as silk, Just about the nicest Hornet ever...I shot a 10 shot 50 yard group with old lousy ammo and you could cover the 10 shot with a nickel and almost a penny...Ive never seen one before and traded heavy for it..Has anyone on AR every owned or seen one of these? I can't find any information on them but there is no doubt of the quality. I stocked up on brass, ammo and it shoots 224 bullets, not 223..and that's a plus, It likes those 224 bore 45 gr. HOrnady BEEs..Im still playing with it. Oh yeah, 5 shot clip..Stock is thin and waspy, no excess bulk on this one..lean and mean, like a rifle should be.

Ok Ray.....you know the rules......

Without pictures......it NEVER happened!!

Kevi

Congratulations:
A question or two if I may.

Your Greifelt , it did not start life out as a Zi-DIi? Check the gun and clip out to see this.

The reason I ask is that many a early Greifelt ( and other Suhl makers started life out as a Zi-Di and when Zi-Di ammo became obsolete after WW2 owners simply changed them to Hornets.

Both are designated as 5.6 x35 R but the Hornet is actually a 5.6 x36R with a 5.7mm bullet (.244) Whereas the Zi-Di shot a 5.63mm bullet.
The Hornet does not shoot safely in the Zi-Di but a Zi-Di can be shot from a Hornet chamber.

There are minute dimensional differences between the two.

The case length is 35.50mm for the Zi-Di where as the 22 Hornet is 35.64mm.

Perhaps for those who do not know what a Zi-Di is it is the 5.56 x 35 or officially named 5.6 x 35 D.R.G.M by Alfred Ziegenhahn and Heinrich Diem of Suhl and preceded the Hornet which is a Townsend Whelen and Wotkyns creation.


The Zi-Di was very popular in South Africa but pre WW2 and the Greifelt Rifles drop dead gorgeous ! Many Survived as Hornets but sadly over time owners lost clips so its not uncommon to see original Zi-Di's for sale without clips and clips are often listed in the wanted sections of gun selling magazines.

Alf,
Thank you for the update..of interest is the ingenous safety on this guns, it should be on every bolt action out there!! Im having a lot of fun with this gun, its the perfect walk about varmint gun..I topped it off with a 4X fixed Leupold..

Kevin,
Sorry I can't post pictures on AR, too old to dumb..but I would be glad to post pictures to anyones email..

Alf,
no numbers on the clip...on the left side of the front ring the Serial number is Z657, has a crown/B and a crown/U....stamped 5.0-35...

Mr. Olson, a well known collector of such guns, told the person I purchased the gun from that being stamped on the receiver ring as opposed to the clip ment it was chambered originally in the European version of the 22 HOrnet caliber, as the Hornet had become so popular..He told my seller that the gun shot great, and that it does..Loading the fragile cases of the Hornet is a new world of reloading, tossing a powder charge is interesting in that your dealing in tenth of grs. as opposed to grains, Its been an interesting loading process, tricky but I have a handle on it now..In my testing usisng old loads from an old Speer book..I loaded to max, in fact got a smoky on my last load, so cutting back a grain and called it max..Accuracy was best at 11.8 grs of IMR or H-4227, and 296, that's .4 below book max... As you know you load the Hornet in fractions, not grains which I found out with the smoky!

Apparantly that 5.0-35 is a 56-35. the 0 has just a tad of a tale so its a bad 6 strike IMO.

Ray:

What you have there is a Zi-Di !

Another expert told me the gun was a Walthar and Griefelt just stocked them and sold them..I looked at some Walthars and could not see that they were even close? unless I was looking at the wrong model???

Look at the Harrel schuentzen “culver” pistol powder measure. It throws up to about 25 grains. I have one, and won’t bother with anything else for the little cartridges. It’s the best there is. I really love mine! They aren’t cheap, but it’s saves a lot of frustration. Better buy the stand that for it too.

https://www.sinclairintl.com/r...prod38248.aspx?dym=y

Matt, I will probably do that..if I decide to keep this rifle, but as most know, I play with one for 6 months to a year, get bored, sell it and move on..I do have a few keepers however, and this is one fun gun, soooo who knows, another day in the life of a gun whore..

I doubt if this would be a Walther simply because Walthers are post WW2 rifles. ( 1950's ) Unless this is a post WW2 Greifelt offering ?

The Hornet was offered in two versions.
the KKJ -Ho and a UIT prone model.

big question where is this rifles safety button located ?

Pix of Ray's Greifelt:

Ok that is not a Walther for starters !
Nice gun ! Well done

I was pretty sure of that..Thanks for your help and steve thanks to you for posting the pictures.

As a side note I shot a rock chuck at a lazered 326 yards more or less, soft breeze, so held a foot to the right and centered him! man that Hornet is not wind proof...those bullets float, float, its a 100 to 150 yard gun. shoots flat but you must use windage adjustment and fly by the seat of your pants...that shot was not skill, just dumb luck!

Ray: Try Lilgun powder. 13.0 grains with a 40 grain bullet. Can't aways get 13 grains depending on make of case. I have found wide variation of capacity in 22 Hornet brass. Case weights:
Win 49.6
Hornady 47.0
PPU 55.0
Rem 45.2
During the component shortage I had to go to PPU cases. Hard to get 13 grains into case so I dropped the bullet weight to 35 grains instead of 40 grains. John Barsness has a good 22Hornet article in the June? Handloader magazine.

thanks BobM, I will work with some of that advise and see if I can find that issue. The bullet my gun likes is the Hornady #2229, 45 gr. .224 called the BEE, but be careful and don't pick up the BEE with the .218, that is for the 218 Bee..MOstly what I like about this bullet is it fits thru the clip..None of the plastic tip bullets will do that...I very limited as to what bullets work..

Its a super accurate bullet in my gun..It shoots great with 630, 4227 and 296 so far.

Bob,
I did some work with PPU brass as it was the heaviest by far..What I found is that it took less powder to get the best velocity, thick brass, but that's a good thing, its more efficient...I remember back in the day Remington was condemned because you had to cut back 2 grs. in most calibers, prior to the financially available chronographs..When in fact you got the same velocity with less powder..I have found that PPU brass will out last any other brass by far in most any caliber.

BTW, I reloaded one PPU case and one WW case, both 25 times and then quit..I don't think Hornet brass wears out..I gave up at 25 out of boredom I guess..That amazed me. I trimmed twice, but really didn't need to..Im talking max loads..The Hornet is a different world. Also for an old dude who works up loads a grain or a half grain at a time, got me in a bit of trouble and I got a couple of smokies, and popped a primer and separated a case...You load the hornet with tenths of a grain, not grains! Makes since when you think about it, which I didn't..but I'm on track now..Most interesting caliber..I owned one early on in my youth, a Win 43, but I didn't handload back then, traded it for a more powerful 218, used that one on deer and was convienced it was much better for big game...

Ray: Lilgun is different. If you look at the Hodgdon reloading data 13 grains with a 40 grain bullet is listed as a maximum load. The pressure is 29,700 CUP. Obviously the limiting factor is not pressure but getting enough powder stuffed into the case below the bullet seated so it fits in the magazine.
Using your line of reasoning why was the K-Hornet invented?

Nice find! Thanks for sharing the pictures of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
MOstly what I like about this bullet is it fits thru the clip..None of the plastic tip bullets will do that...

Check out the hornady 35gr vmax. It is pretty stubby and works in my ruger magazines. The wind will still grab them, but they are noticeably better than the other typical hornet bullets on a windy day. My favorite hornet powder is W297. It burns just a little slower than 296, so it's perfect.

I have settled on 296, as it shoots in my gun..I will be trying LilGun if they ever get any of it in Twin Falls...I can order my 45 gr. Hornday #2229 Bee .224 bullets from Midway be I don't order powder from anyone re: Hazemat..I have som Lilgun on order...

My best load data on the Hornet came from one of my very old Speer reloading books, not unusual..I have a lot of reloading books, and the old books were not afraid to post max loads like todays books due to law suits galore.

Ive fallen in love with the Hornet, even though Im sure the 222, 223 and 22-250 and a host of others are more efficient and generally better, but they are not as much fun!! Everyone should have a Hornet to lurk on rock chucks, rabbits, etc. Its about hunting not shooting, I like that best about the Hornet, Im wearing out my knees crawling in the brush, bush, cactu, rocks and sod! yeehaw! I been sneaking on a Albino rock chuck all spring, He's a smart one. I could have shot him several times with my 6x45, but more fun now that I have a Hornet. A K Hornet in a Win. 43 sounds like fun!!

hi, ray..i really enjoyed seeing your new .22 hornet....i have one being shipped in from england...may i contact you upon arrival and see what your loading, etc. recommendations are?... thanks, john..

How does the action lock up.

John Waugh,
Give me an email or phone call when your ready.Ive done a lot of testing on this rifle and some rock chuck hunting since I purchased it..Had a lot of offers to sell, but can't bring myself to part withit so far.

P-dog shooter,
Im taking a guess and by gosh on the lock up, but it does have one heavy locking lug up front, and a massive one I back it appears and lots of steel in the back portion of the bolt..With some hot ,ax test loads I got no stretch in the cases, WW, Rem, and Privi Partison...I did some testing and Hornet cases last forever apparently, I read this and tested it out and got 20 to 25 reloads and cases still good..I found that amazing..PPU cases are much thicker than their counterparts, and I used book max loads in them and picked up 130 to 140 FPS with no case head expansion...The Hornet, like double rifles, is a caliber unto itself, both good and bad..Im wringing it out and its a very interesting little gun..A walk about rock chucker deluxe..Accurate as hell and light as a feather wearing a 3X Leupold as it won't shoot far enough I Idaho snake canyon updrafts, I shot at a cuck 4 times hitting 2.5 ft. high every time, at another spot I held below his feet (sitting up chuck) at 100 yards an made a head shot!! Up on top and a calm evening its good to 200 yards with a center mass hold. That said even a 250-3000 with a 1" high sight in at 100 will shoot 6 to 10 inches high in those two spots in the canyon. Fun place to take a newbie, makes them crazy!!

I might all the safety is on the right side, laps over to the left said, and rests in a up and down fashion like the safety on a brno mod. 21 or 22, the machining is out of this world, and btw its a double square bridge action..Im sure the bolt is a third safety.

Reason I am asking is I have a lux 22 hornet single shot made in Germany.

Sweet little rifle about four pounds very accurate well under 3/4 inch at 100 yards.

It locked on the bolt

After several hundred rounds it developed excessive head space.

I fixed it but only use 45gr cast in it now at 1100fps. So basically a 22rf now.

Did kill one small buck with that load chest shot 50 foot run dead.

this gun as a long steel lug underneath the bolt face, Alf would be a better source of exactly what its got..Maybe he will jump aboard and let us know the real scoop..

I have a Zi-Di that looks very similar to this rifle, though mine has a double trigger.
I don't know much about it.

They apparently are very popular in Africa, mostly in Zim and RSA..Got a lot of high praise on them from there..Lovely little double square bridge actions...Any square bridge action is high dollar stuff..

quote:

...Any square bridge action is high dollar stuff

Rugers are basically a square bridged action.

They are for a fact, never thought of that..For some reason they don't count!!! Why that is?? even the mod. 77 gets no credit for being a double square bridge...strange huh!!?

I've started watching this thread Ray. I have a 'tender pistol barrel in K-Hornet. Fun to shoot but haven't had it out in ages. Will order some Prvi. It is cool to note 50 per box of the Hornets. Going to look for a load I can use my Lee powder scoops on. I hope you guys keep coming up with more facts as it is "good stuff Maynard". I actually ordered some 35 gr HPs to the tune of 300 pieces last week. Midway USA has a lot of blems and sale priced .224 bullets. Good shootin boys. Packy

Ray,
It's simply way cool!
That's all I know about it.
Zeke

ok just saw the picture:

That is a Greifelt ( not Griefelt ) branded Zi-Di !

The rifle was likely imported by Griffin and Howe an one often sees them with G&H scope mounts

The Zi-Di preceded the Hornet and has a very small but significant dimensional difference to the Hornet.

The rim on the hornet is slightly bigger and the case is slightly longer.

The bolt that Ray Describes with the steel lug underneath is typical for the Zi-Di.

This rifle in its current condition can fetch up to 2000 US$ at auction !

Was very popular at one time in South Africa.

My first encounter with one was a specimen owned by one of the early presidents of SA hunters Dr Vercuiel. At one time I dated his grand daughter and got to shoot this rifle on their farm on the Limpopo near Beitt Bridge

Thanks Alf, your knowledge on such items and your good taste in guns as always impressed me.

This "Greifelt" is a nice rifle , shoots tiny groups, and its just plain fun hunt with..

BTW, I recently purchased a Brno mod. 1, 22 L.R. It shoots pin hole groups and is a nice match to the Hornet..
Ray