dose anyone shoot the 219 zipper? my grandfather had one in a levergun I want to say it was a browning but don't quote me. I remember shooting jack rabbits in southern Saskatchewan when I was a child he also liked it for antelope (not my first choice he shot everything up close and in the head). I thought that rechambering an H&R single shot would be an easy way to make one. or maybe rebareling one of the old savage bolt action 30-30's. any ideas?

I have a 219 Improved Zipper that my Grandpa built. It is a single shot and built on a Winchester highwall action. We used to shoot a lot of p-dogs with it in Kansas (where I grew up). Haven't shot it in a long while. Also have a .225 Winchester that he built in the same set up.

The .30/30 rim started out as the .32/40 Ballard target cartridge and won a bunch. Blown straight and you have the .38/55. Todays pressure/ .375 WCF. I guess there was a .28/30 something. Cf 7mm Waters today. .25/35 for the ladies in Winchesters. And the .22 was the .219 Zipper. All this predates WW I. Savage had the "Hi-power" in .228. Very similar case. 99 lever a bit stronger. Of course Mr. Donaldson used it as the basis of his .219 Don Wasp of bench rest fame.

Last gun I remember available in Zipper was the Marlin lever action. You want users, hit the old folks homes. Bolt actions in .222 pretty much took over 60 years ago.

Obviously there is demand if only nostalgia. So Winchester copied the .219 Improved, pretty much, and reduced the rim for the standard Mauser bolt action bolt face and magazine and gave us the .225 Winchester.

Mr. Brown, gunsmith, eabco.com, is much fond of the Don Wasp and the Donaldson thinking. He has some "house cartridges" on the .30/30... 6mm up. (No .224, but he offers the .219 Don W.). His house action is quite small and cute and adequate. You might find something there that appeals to you.

Mr. Ackley told me the .30/30 Savages were not worth rebarreling. The Savage was available in .225, try to find one. Now gone Remington 788's were also available in .30/30.

And I believe it was Mr. Howe, in his book, indicated that the 6.5 Jap action was for rimmed cartridges. 6.5 Jap is "semi rimmed" and had been re engineered in the magazine so in the days when these were common among soldiers bring backs to find one to make up a bolt action repeater for the .30/30 family.

Your bucks, Luck.

I didn't know if the savages were good to build on or not, I see them quite often for cheap. I can get my hands on a H&R in 223 from a buddy like most other H&R's I've been around it shoots surprisingly well I thought that it would be cheap and easy to rechamber to the zipper.I don't want to spend a small fortune. I have 45 factory super speed rounds 20 of those are loaded with some kind of hollow point (I don't have the boxes).what is the best barrel length for the zipper? where can I find the best load info? Any help would be appreciated.

Marlin made a .219- I had one and made a gift of it to a friend.

Rechambering a single shot Hornet or 223 ought to be a snap. IIRC the 225 Winchester is similar but with a '06 size rim.

quote:

Originally posted by iiranger:
The .30/30 rim started out as the .32/40 Ballard target cartridge and won a bunch. Blown straight and you have the .38/55. Todays pressure/ .375 WCF. I guess there was a .28/30 something. Cf 7mm Waters today. .25/35 for the ladies in Winchesters. And the .22 was the .219 Zipper. All this predates WW I. Savage had the "Hi-power" in .228. Very similar case. 99 lever a bit stronger. Of course Mr. Donaldson used it as the basis of his .219 Don Wasp of bench rest fame.

Last gun I remember available in Zipper was the Marlin lever action. You want users, hit the old folks homes. Bolt actions in .222 pretty much took over 60 years ago.

Obviously there is demand if only nostalgia. So Winchester copied the .219 Improved, pretty much, and reduced the rim for the standard Mauser bolt action bolt face and magazine and gave us the .225 Winchester.

Mr. Brown, gunsmith, eabco.com, is much fond of the Don Wasp and the Donaldson thinking. He has some "house cartridges" on the .30/30... 6mm up. (No .224, but he offers the .219 Don W.). His house action is quite small and cute and adequate. You might find something there that appeals to you.

Mr. Ackley told me the .30/30 Savages were not worth rebarreling. The Savage was available in .225, try to find one. Now gone Remington 788's were also available in .30/30.

And I believe it was Mr. Howe, in his book, indicated that the 6.5 Jap action was for rimmed cartridges. 6.5 Jap is "semi rimmed" and had been re engineered in the magazine so in the days when these were common among soldiers bring backs to find one to make up a bolt action repeater for the .30/30 family.

Your bucks, Luck.

Nice historical summary! Thanks.

Marlin and Winchester both made lever action .219 Zippers. The Winchester had a 24 inch standard weight barrel, if I recall correctly, although a 20 inch standard weigth might also have been available. The only Marlins I've ever seen were 20 inch heavy barrels. The Winchesters are ridiculously expensive today, at least for those in collectible shape. The Marlins are still reasonable, although about twice the price of a comparable .30-30 or .35 Rem version of the Model 336.

I owned a Marlin .219 Zipper for a while. With good handloads, loaded one in the tube and one in the chamber, it would put 5 shots into about 1-1/8 inches at 100 yards off a benchrest, using a 6x or 8x (can't remember which) Weaver scope of early 60s vintage. I killed a couple of woodchucks with it, played with it a good bit, and then sent it on down the road when the urge struck for something else.

Even ignoring the price differential, I'd choose the Marlin over the Winchester. The .219 is enough cartridge to reach out to 300 yards on coyotes and woodchucks (although hitting a chuck at 300 yards would be about at the limit of the rifle's accuracy potential). With that in mind, a scope is almost required, at least at my age, and scoping the Marlin is far easier than any of the contortions the pre-angle eject Winchester lever actions require.

I had great luck simply necking down .25-35 brass to make the Zipper cases. The Marlin I owned had sufficient room in the chamber that no neck turning was required. I didn't try to max the velocity or pressure out and got excellent case life as a result. Neck sizing worked for me, as I was only shooting one rifle in that caliber.

A custom Martini Cadet in .219 would be a wonderful thing, as would one built on the Hi-Wall or the Brown single shot action. But any of those would also make great .225 Winchesters and you'd have the advantage of factory brass with the correct headstamp.

quote:

And I believe it was Mr. Howe, in his book, indicated that the 6.5 Jap action was for rimmed cartridges.

I happen to have a copy of Mr. Howe's book (two volumes actually). I shall have a look to see whether I can find that reference.

Try here for extensive information.

http://home.mindspring.com/~morrison3/