I must ave missed something along the years of selling the SAVAGE lines as well as using them. Never have I encountered on my own or had a customer complain about the feeding from the magazine on a Savage rifle. For what it's worth to you folks discussing the Savage rifles............I've built a few rifles. Using Remington 700 actions,,,,,,,,,,they will shoot pretty darn good! For out of the box at the local gunshop, Remington, Ruger, T/C, WINCHESTER(that one is capitalized to input my disdain for that brand............pre-64, post 64........whatthehellever) you will not buy a more accurate rifle than the SAVAGE offerings of today!! The only thing close to them will be the SAKO's/TIKKA's. And you won't spend a fortune on the Tikka's or Sako's either with the T/3's or Sako (whatever they brought out in the last 6 months to counter the other "big box store brands").
Savage still "pulls a button" to rifle their barrels. All the rest of the biggies beat the hell out of a piece of metal with hammer forging machines! Savage could never afford one of those machines so they did it the old fashioned way............pull the button........."button rifled barrels"! Some of you folks have expounded on tremendous groups you have shot with Savages, I am computer illiterate or I would post a picture of a ".440/in" shot at 500 yards with witnesses and measured with not one but two rangedinders(Leica and Nikon) from a 204 Ruger Savage VLP absolutely factory stock!! Can I repeat the feat? Probably not! But hundreds of dead groundhogs in that 400-600 yard range couldn't give a shit either!!
Bottom line is............SAVAGE production rifles shoot, out of the box, no tweaking needed. Comopared to pretty much any of the rest of the "big names" who sell "project guns". The SAVAGES are free floated and pillar bedded from the factory(even the lowly STEVENS 200 without the Accutrigger). If I was looking for "purty" I probably wouldn't opt for the Savage. If I want "funtional, accurate,affordable..............SAVAGE hands down!! GHD

Supposedly that's all that the Remington Custom Shop does: work with production items. However they are hand selected and only their best folks work on them.
When I typed in "Savage Arms Custom Shop", I was given Effie Sullivan"s name and a phone number. So apparently they have enough of a custom shop to advertize it in cyberspace.

Aside to Whatfor: Before you start schooling other folks on checking their facts or what post they're allowed to post without hurting your feelings and calling your little toy a POS, you need to practice what you preach, as in: No, they don't have a custom shop......well kinda. ROFLMAO

Tell me something, when you take that POS out to destory a few phone books, do you wear a imitation boonie hat or do you tie a ninja rag around your head. Have you done a study on which camo gives you the best groups?

As I said in my first post, it was good shooting but the tribute was to the shooters.

WhatThe ----- What chambering did the Savage team shoot to win the matchs. You may have said and I just have missed it. Good shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Supposedly that's all that the Remington Custom Shop does: work with production items. However they are hand selected and only their best folks work on them.
When I typed in "Savage Arms Custom Shop", I was given Effie Sullivan"s name and a phone number. So apparently they have enough of a custom shop to advertize it in cyberspace.

Aside to Whatfor: Before you start schooling other folks on checking their facts or what post they're allowed to post without hurting your feelings and calling your little toy a POS, you need to practice what you preach, as in: No, they don't have a custom shop......well kinda. ROFLMAO

Tell me something, when you take that POS out to destory a few phone books, do you wear a imitation boonie hat or do you tie a ninja rag around your head. Have you done a study on which camo gives you the best groups?

As I said in my first post, it was good shooting but the tribute was to the shooters.

Again, no ill will intended. I don't have the credentials to "school" anyone. But I am a hound for facts and my feeling are bound in steel so you can post at will.

As to your question "Have you done a study on which camo gives you the best groups"? I must admit and to my ignorance, I have never conducted a single test to determine which "camo" groups best. Please accept my apologies on this one and again, I bow to your superior knowledge. However, I can say that I employ very extensive and comprehensive tests when I set out to develop a specific load/cartridge for a specific purpose.

I prefer not to banter words with you nor anyone in reference to the "custom shop" as I believe it is a matter of terminology and interpretation in which I feel can be equally credited. With that said, and a long with many visits to Savage, my opinion is based on two criteria; 1. I never noticed nor have I ever seen an area designated as "custom shop" within their humble factory. 2. In our machine shop, we have CNC run & mill equipment for post fabrication production and then we have our "custom shop" which is very different in that; one of a kind material is designed, engineered and finally hand prototyped. This is my interpretation of a "custom shop" while I understand you may have a different view and/or understanding of: just what qualifies as a custom shop. So perhaps you will indulge me and accept the aforesaid as a reasonable conclusion for what could only yield further disagreement.

Unfortunately I have never engaged a phone book. It sounds quit challenging and I am afraid I have missed out and frankly, feel cheated. I am unaware of the proper attire one must don prior to dispatching a phone book. You mentioned a "boonie hat and/or a Ninja rag". I am unfamiliar with this apparel and was in hopes that I could wear my "Gilly" outfit to the event. Again, I am unfamiliar with this event and should my Gilly suit be offensive or inappropriate in any way, I trust you will advise me so I do not offend anyone.

A little off subject but relevant the same, your spelling of "advertize" is actually and correctly spelled advertise. A simple mistake. Then you use of a break "Supposedly that's all that the Remington Custom Shop does: work with production items". You may want to try this; Working with production guns is apparently all that Remington does within their custom shop. The grammar is perhaps the edge but agreeably more direct.

Just one more observation if you or others can stomach it? My screen-name is WhatThe not "Whatfor". However, Whatfor is indeed a dandy of a screen-name!

Cheers!

I agree with RC.
Get back to me when you've looked up the definition of "break" and "brake".

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
I agree with RC.
Get back to me when you've looked up the definition of "break" and "brake".

I can't take it much more..



Are you serious, did you even read anything?

Previous post #1

"The argument in favor comes from the gases being broken down into 2 stages. While the bullet makes it's short run through the break/brake gases are forced to escape in opposing directions that as we know counters each other reducing recoil, barrel lift etc,. So I can also buy "Break" as appropriate too.

Previous post #2

There has been debates regarding the spelling of the muzzle break or brake. I use the original spelling/meaning of break because it seems more applicable. In any event a muzzle break or brake is used to reduce recoil and barrel lift by expending the propellant gasses to an equal and opposite direction of fire by means of vents or holes machined or fitted to the end of a rifle barrel.

Really, do you read or just take random shots in hopes you're dealing with someone less bright than yourself?

Let's review.

If you notice, I referred to two (2) definitions/spellings for the device. When this device was born, it was referred to as a BREAK in some corners and a BRAKE in others. Do you know who invented the Break/Brake? I hope not, because no one does for sure. It is understood and agreed upon that it came from the military. Some Say John Browning sold the idea to the French which intern made its way back to the U.S. There are many stories regarding its true origins. I am simply acknowledging the FACT that there have been many definitions to the device other than BRAKE. The definition of BRAKE can be vague but as applied in this case does not make sense to many as two opposing forces never collide to create friction in an effort to reduce speed. Rather these two forces BREAK direction causing an equal and opposing force which intern reduces speed.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND, IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH, DO YOU NEED PICTURES, PERHAPS A VIDEO????

I know you are going to think of something brilliant to respond with, but I'm done, cooked, baked and further going bald on this. Lets call it good for Pete's sake! Perhaps save it for later and we can arm wrestle over it and the loser buys the beer(I like Corona).

You guys need to kiss and make up.

I enjoy each of your postings all of the time.

You just hit a nerve and got off on the wrong foot on this one.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
You guys need to kiss and make up.

I enjoy each of your postings all of the time.

You just hit a nerve and got off on the wrong foot on this one.

Hell, I'm just getting warmed up, This is fun! I just hope Wasbeeman is having as much fun as I am.. "Nerves" you say. I mailed my entire nervous system to UCLA after my wife got a Chihuahua and I started baby sitting my sisters kids. And the last time I got kissed was when I got screwed buying my last car!

Damn just when I was getting on a roll too! But you're right, soon we will be sounding like a couple of high school girls. I'm not sure but I'm pretty confident this is my first go around with anybody, I'm really not the type. However, I am the boss around my house until my wife gets home!

quote:

Originally posted by phurley5:
WhatThe ----- What chambering did the Savage team shoot to win the matchs. You may have said and I just have missed it. Good shooting.

The only cartridge possible of winning it all, the 6.5x284.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by phurley5:
WhatThe ----- What chambering did the Savage team shoot to win the matchs. You may have said and I just have missed it. Good shooting.

The only cartridge possible of winning it all, the 6.5x284.

I'm going to be meeting with a couple of those boys this weekend a long with some reps. But to answer your question, I really don't know. I think you guessed correctly with the 6.5X284 it's enjoying the thrown as the most versatile and accurate cartridge out there. At least with the F and BR guys. After meeting with these guys I'll post some more specs like bullet, case, trim, powder, primer, o.a.l., etc,.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
I agree with RC.
Get back to me when you've looked up the definition of "break" and "brake".

You lost whatever credibility score you had in this thread with that.
I disagree with WhatThe's perceptions as to the spelling but I ain't using it in an attempt to belittle him.
How about keeping to the facts here?

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by phurley5:
WhatThe ----- What chambering did the Savage team shoot to win the matchs. You may have said and I just have missed it. Good shooting.

The only cartridge possible of winning it all, the 6.5x284.

As they mentioned that Savage won the FT/R National Championship, I'd guess that they'd be using those specific factory models that Savage makes. If so, then the two caliber options are .308 Win and .223 Rem.

Savage Model 12 F T/R

quote:

Originally posted by Ske1eter:

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by phurley5:
WhatThe ----- What chambering did the Savage team shoot to win the matchs. You may have said and I just have missed it. Good shooting.

The only cartridge possible of winning it all, the 6.5x284.

As they mentioned that Savage won the FT/R National Championship, I'd guess that they'd be using those specific factory models that Savage makes. If so, then the two caliber options are .308 Win and .223 Rem.

Savage Model 12 F T/R

Perhaps? But they are not limited to that rifle. They could use the 12F, 12BR or palma if they so choose to do so. They have a wide selection of very accurate chambers as well as the rifles I mentioned. I doubt they would use the 12 F T/R if they have another rifle as mentioned above performing better...

quote:

Originally posted by WhatThe:

quote:

Originally posted by Ske1eter:

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:

quote:

Originally posted by phurley5:
WhatThe ----- What chambering did the Savage team shoot to win the matchs. You may have said and I just have missed it. Good shooting.

The only cartridge possible of winning it all, the 6.5x284.

As they mentioned that Savage won the FT/R National Championship, I'd guess that they'd be using those specific factory models that Savage makes. If so, then the two caliber options are .308 Win and .223 Rem.

Savage Model 12 F T/R

Perhaps? But they are not limited to that rifle. They could use the 12F, 12BR or palma if they so choose to do so. They have a wide selection of very accurate chambers as well as the rifles I mentioned. I doubt they would use the 12 F T/R if they have another rifle as mentioned above performing better...

If the image on the Savage page showing the team behind their trophies is representative, then they are holding the 12 FT/R rifle.

quote:

If the image on the Savage page showing the team behind their trophies is representative, then they are holding the 12 FT/R rifle.

No, that photo is for their press releases.

My mistake guys, the guns they were shooting were the F-T/Rs or Palmas in 308.

Darrel Buell is a regular contributor on www.Savageshooters.com and posted in this thread that I started:
http://savageshooters.com/Sava...p/topic,31680.0.html

All the rifles we used were either stock Mod.12 F-T/R's or stock Mod.12 Palma's in .308. The only "customizations" were variations in cheek-pieces and bipods. Exceptions to this were: John ran his usual right-bolt, left port variant (available as a special order rifle), I ran a Palma chassis (action and stock) with a standard F-T/R barrel attached as an experiment.

For the record-breaking 1000 yard Team match, everyone was running Nightforce topped Mod.12 F-T/R's with 155.5 grain Berger BT bullets. For added emphasis, if we were competing in F-Open class, we would have finished in 4th place out of 11 F-Open teams. Considering they are all running 6.5-284's and 7mm Mags, not too bad.


Hope this helps,

Darrell Buell
Team Savage/Team USA


Sorry about that.

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
My mistake guys, the guns they were shooting were the F-T/Rs or Palmas in 308.

Darrel Buell is a regular contributor on www.Savageshooters.com and posted in this thread that I started:
http://savageshooters.com/Sava...p/topic,31680.0.html

All the rifles we used were either stock Mod.12 F-T/R's or stock Mod.12 Palma's in .308. The only "customizations" were variations in cheek-pieces and bipods. Exceptions to this were: John ran his usual right-bolt, left port variant (available as a special order rifle), I ran a Palma chassis (action and stock) with a standard F-T/R barrel attached as an experiment.

For the record-breaking 1000 yard Team match, everyone was running Nightforce topped Mod.12 F-T/R's with 155.5 grain Berger BT bullets. For added emphasis, if we were competing in F-Open class, we would have finished in 4th place out of 11 F-Open teams. Considering they are all running 6.5-284's and 7mm Mags, not too bad.


Hope this helps,

Darrell Buell
Team Savage/Team USA


Sorry about that.

That certainly clears it up, thanks fjold..:-)