Is there anyone doing anything with the .264 Winchester??? Seems that with the right twist and throat why wouldn't it be a marketable contender to the resent 6.5 phobia??? roger

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
Hello Bart,

I had a .264 win built a few years ago. It was a Ruger tanger with a brux 1/8 twist. It was very accurate. I shot partitions and Sierra game kings and a few other lead tipped bullets. At the time, I didn’t quite understand BC and was ate up with 30-06 fever. A 140 grain bullet at 3000 FPS can’t do anything a 150 at 3000 from a 30-06 can, right?

That is one rifle I really wish I didn’t sell. As bullets have really changed the last 5 years with everybody milking every last BC value, the game has changed significantly.

Looking back, I really regret getting rid of that rifle especially with today’s selection of bullets.

Todd

Now I had the 6.5 fever since about 1966.A 6.5 Arasaka, a couple of Caracanos, a number 6.5X55s and possibly the first 6.5 X .284.
I latter fell in love with the 6mm X .270 Imp.(my Wildcat), after that the .257, than the 25-06 IMP.
Never got around to the .264 Win.
roger

I've had 5. Perfect calibre for Oz.

The last few have been loaded with the 140 Berger VLD Hunting and N570 and give great velocities and accuracy. I use them for long range roo shooting.

If you wanted to shoot bigger game, then the 140 Lapua Naturalis or 140gr Swift A-Frame is the go.

I had one in the late '60's-early 70's; a Model 70 pre-64 Westerner with 26 in. barrel. Loads then were hotter than recommended now, so pressures were probably on the high side, but I loaded the 120 gr Speer with surplus 4831 to what Speer indicated as ~3345 fps. Did a great job on long-range pronghorn, coyotes, and foxes. Sorry I sold it for something I had the hots for-a Ruger #1 in .22-250 that turned out to be mediocre in accuracy so also went to a new owner.

Clarence

6.5 Hysteria ?

If perhaps you are "hysterical"for the 6.5mm you are in good company !

If we look at Truesdell's survey of 170 historically prominent African big game hunters between 1893 and 1946 we see that the most used caliber of all calibers big and small was the .256 ( 6.5mm ) Mannlicher ! ( 37 out of 170 hunters) with the 30-06 second ( 30 out of 170 hunters)

Between 1893 and 1905 the 256 reigns supreme at 16 out of 40 hunters for calibers between 22 Savage and 375.

After 1905 the position of the .256 is surpassed by the 30-06 !

The rifle that originally makes this possible is the Romanian Mannlicher rifle M93 designed by Mannlicher in 1890.

It fired the 6.5x53 Rimmed ( Romanian / Dutch ) cartridge with its 159 gr FMJ RN bullet @ 2400 fps. The full length rifle ( long barrel) was sighted for 2000 yards !

Though still offered in the 1910 catalog the "new" 1903 Mannlicher rimless 6.5mm x 54 superseded the the 6.5 Rimmed.

Jeffery in England imported these rifles from Styer and had them finished to English gun standards and offered them in 6 "anglicized" versions. So popular were they that they were sold with original military hardball ammo and a variety of Eley, Kynoch and ICI loadings using Jeffery's proprietary bullets. Just about Everyone else in the trade like WR did the same.

The popularity of the little 6.5 was not misplaced! Compared to the large bore calibers that the 7mm and 6.5 mm replaced these rifles were easy to shoot, light to carry, were magazine and clip fed and above all they were extremely accurate and particularly deadly on frontal and a side on head shots on elephant !

Their reputation later as Hemingway and Ruark's "camp" guns was cemented in writing of many and many sought to recreate that. Hemingway even bought and kept one in his home.

In South Africa it was not the "English Mannlicher" that drove fanatics to hysteria but the elusive and rare 6.5 x 58 Portuguese fired from the Mauser - Vergueiro rifle, a Mauser Mannlicher hybrid. The 6.5 P held the same level of esteem as their counterparts in east Africa though far less common. After many years of searching I managed to procure a example.

Whether you love'm or hate'm, the 6.5 caliber is finally getting it's place in the sun...either by the bad mouth or the rose colored glasses.

I LIKE my Six Fives...from 260 Rem to Swedes to Creed to x 284/06 to 6.5 x 300 WBY Mag...and when my 6mm BR barrel needs replacing it will be a 6.5 BR, TCU or maybe a 6.5 FB, just to cover all the bases from small to "getthehellouttahere".

We shooters are herd animals and when something wiggles out there in the grass we just HAVE to go look at it...and buy it(taste it) if everyone else is... ...or it doesn't eat us.

Good Hunting

I recently decided that I need to replace the barrel on my .264 win mag pre-64 model 70 Westerner. The barrel is shot out after about 55 years of my father, me and my son all hunting with that wonderful rifle. When the barrel was better, it was wonderfully accurate and very deadly. We've killed a pile of animals with it.

I've been contemplating what caliber barrel to replace it with and even though I've considered most of the newer, more popular 6.5 and 7mm calibers, the more I think about it, the more I think I'll just get another .264 win mag barrel. It'll be 26", stainless and with a twist for the longer, heavier bullets that are so popular today.

It's been such a great killer of game, I've been wondering why I wanted something 'better'.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Is there anyone doing anything with the .264 Winchester??? Seems that with the right twist and throat why wouldn't it be a marketable contender to the resent 6.5 phobia??? roger

While I like my .264 Win Mag....it's competition is more with the .270 Winchester and the .25-06 For as good as the .264 is, it actually has little to nothing on either of the competitors.....except maybe higher priced brass, burns more powder and shoots out barrels a bit faster.

Like a lot of magnums, it's contribution to the ballistics party may be real on paper, it's vakue in the field is not noticeable.

"In the mind of the beholder"...isn't that what it's all about when we constantly compare?

It don't make no freaking bit of difference whether it's on paper or not...I KNOW MY "WHATEVER IT IS" SHOOTS BETTER THAN YOUR "WHATEVER IT IS" BECAUSE IT'S bigger, more accurate, shoots better bullets...ETC, ETC, ETC...BLAW, BLAW, BLAW,...AD INFINITUM, AD NAUSEUM...WHO cares what the beasty thinks...or what anybody else thinks...

No flame or diss intended

Just ENJOY what toys you have and let others do the same...it's nothing but opinion anyway and we all know what opinions are.

Good Hunting

quote:

Originally posted by DLS:
I recently decided that I need to replace the barrel on my .264 win mag pre-64 model 70 Westerner. The barrel is shot out after about 55 years of my father, me and my son all hunting with that wonderful rifle. When the barrel was better, it was wonderfully accurate and very deadly. We've killed a pile of animals with it.

A 55 yr old barrel burner and a ton of game. Good record. I'd say roger

I've always had a soft spot for the 6.5, long before the Creed was a pipe dream. Back in the early, maybe mid-80's I had a Mod. 70 in 264 Win. Mag. I liked it then and still like the cartridge. I've also been a 270 fan since I was a kid....thank you Jack O'Conner. Anyway, after acquiring a chronograph I decided, that for me, the 264 was mostly a glorified 270 and parted with it when something more interesting came along. Since then the historical Swede and Mannlicher cartridges have more than satisfied my 6.5 lusts. They are both such pleasant, effective beyond their paper ballistics cartridges.

Since I was a kid I've wanted a 264 WM. Had something to do with an uncle that had a couple of Newton rifles - one in 256 Newton.
I'd asked him about any interest in the 264 or any other magnum caliber and he spoke a truism I've never forgotten: Cartridge doesn't really matter as much as placement.
Fast forward a number of decades and my shoulder finally started acting up. I parted ways with my 338 L and 300 WM and a couple of other heavy-kicking rounds.
I took those funds and got a Win model 70 in 264 WM. Used it to take my latest elk.
I also have a 6.5x55 and a 256 Newton. No need for a 270 or 280 etc. I'll keep my 264 WM. It's much more pleasant to shoot and a bit more accurate than either of the two I parted ways with.
I don't really 'compare' cartridges as much any more. I have a nice stable that I take out on occasion and shoot at the range and I try to take each of them out at least a couple of times a year on a hunting trip.
When I get my 256 Newton all set up and loaded for, it will become my prime elk rifle most likely with the 264 WM as a 'back-up'.
I'll pass these rifles on to my grandson when the time comes.

I shot a Leopard and a Mid Asian Ibex last year with a 1962 Remington Model 700 in.264 Win Mag.

Ha! I saw the title and thought someone developed a new 6.5 wildcat.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Is there anyone doing anything with the .264 Winchester??? Seems that with the right twist and throat why wouldn't it be a marketable contender to the resent 6.5 phobia??? roger

While I like my .264 Win Mag....it's competition is more with the .270 Winchester and the .25-06 For as good as the .264 is, it actually has little to nothing on either of the competitors.....except maybe higher priced brass, burns more powder and shoots out barrels a bit faster.

Like a lot of magnums, it's contribution to the ballistics party may be real on paper, it's vakue in the field is not noticeable.

The BIG problem with the 270 and 25-05 is the lack of match grade bullets..........

For scandinavia use the .25 and .270 dont have enough fmj bullets to choose between. .25 have a disadvantage because only bullets over 139gr are allowed for biggame.

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
6.5 Hysteria ?

If perhaps you are "hysterical"for the 6.5mm you are in good company !

I guess I have definitely become hysterical about the 6.5! This is my new 6.5 Creedmore, circa 1903:



I have been playing with it for several weeks and have been unbelievably impressed with the entire package; the handling of the stutzen, the almost 80 yr old scope, and the neat little cartridge! The deer have a new reason to worry when November rolls around!

A little bit of trivia:
in the timeline in the development of the small bore rimless cartridge the 6.5 preceded the 7mm when Mauser presented the Spanish military with a experimental Model 92 Mauser before they settled on the 7mm Model 93.
Two years after 7x57 they released the 6.5x57

MS Model 1903



6.5 x55 Swede short rifle


Top is rare 7x57 in a Swede short rifle
lower is a 6.5x55 Swede



Brno 6.5x57

I’m going back in time to satiate my 6.5 fever.

6.5 Portuguese Mauser TypeA



And with the 6.5mm Dutch Mannlicher (6.5x53r)

Awesome !

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Awesome !

Have to agree, Alf. Both yours and Huvius' rifles are truly awesome. I had a hankering for a Swedish short rifle for many years but never found the right deal on one. Now, my eyes can no longer handle open sights, so I've stopped looking.

Huvius, the Type A is beautiful, but that little single shot is really something special. Would love to have had one like it for stalking back in the days I could see the sights.

Lots of nice eye candy here!! I put more importance on the guns than the caliber, Id love those guns if they were any caliber...

There is so little difference in calibers if you were to separate them into say 3 classes, you could have a perfect arsnal with 3 rifles!! but would need to carefully pick your bullets..

I have been hysterical over 6.5s for a rather long time also. I started out in 1956 with a 6.5-06AI then went to 264 Win Mag to get a standard caliber that I could buy factory ammo for when hunting afar. The 264 was made by P.O.Ackley with his barrel on an FN Mauser action. I used 140 grain cup and core bullets to take elk.
I live in Florida where the deer are small and the shot distances are not long. So I don't need to put up with the recoil and and extra powder burned and the 26" barrel length of the 264WM, so I got a Kimber 84M Classic in 260 Rem with a 22" barrel and 7.5 lbs loaded with a Zeiss 2.5-10 Diavari T* scope on it. I have taken scores of FL deer, all neck shots (obviously one shot kills) The longest of which was 210 yds. I love the 6.5 in any cartridge. The Kimber is short, light handy and very accurate. What's not to love.

Under the '6.5 Hysteria' heading, I own only the 6.5x55, but I own three of them.

I have a Ruger No.1 SS/wood, a CZ 550 undergoing Wayne's #3 option with a gorgeous piece of wood I selected from his supply, and a new Ruger African Lipsey's special.

I am anxious to take the AHR CZ and the Ruger African to Africa.

One of the (3) rifle batteries that I like for safari is:

404 Jeffery
338 (WM or -06)
6.5 Swede

Perfect!

Well, at least a very close second to 458Lott, 375H&H, & 30-06...

I like the 6.5s a lot. Smallest caliber IMHO that can step up and replace a medium rifle that's gone down for whatever reason, with the 156 & 160 gr. bullets. Something the 25s and 6mms would be very challenged to perform considering their heaviest bullets. I love my 25-06s and use them in NA a lot on deer and antelope, but it would not be my first choice for a light rifle in Africa. My wife and I did take my 25-06 to Namibia once, and it performed well, as a light rifle, taking springbok and something else that eludes me at the moment.

I think the Europeans were very smart offering this small bore with a wide weight-range of bullets.

I would like a 28 inch barrel 264 win mag .I have two Ruger 77 ,stainless 264 win mags they shoot awesome.
I.have three 260 Remington savages that shoot one hole groups with lapua 155 grain mega tips and my ar10 ,260 dies the same thing.My old time 6'5 is a 6.5 jap from WW II shoots good with 120 nosler blastic tips 1.25 inches at 100 ,yards .