I'm with you on that one, Dan, the availability of bullets in .257 just torques me the wrong way. Whythehell you can buy bullets in .264 from 100-160 gr but only from 87-120 in .257 is one of irritating wonders of the reloading business. That is the reason I've ended up building my "light" in 6.5x55. Basically it's a readily available 6.5 Roberts even though the case is not a true 57mm. Ballistically, who cares? Sectional density, sectional density, sectional density!

Neither cartridge should need much if any modification to the action. I think the key to me is the fact you don't reload- there are many more options and more places that will have 25/06 ammo for sale. Therefore in that case I would lean to the 25/06.

I have a german mauser 8mm I am considering re-barreling to one of the two calibers, just not sure which one. want someting light on recoil-will shoot deer/hogs all day long no problem. I figure 25 06 ammo is easier to come by but has more muzzle blast than a roberts. on the other hand the 25 06 will do better long range in case antelope is the sought after game.

Plan on using ER Shaw due to funds, or lack of-kind want this to be my "loaner rifle" as well so I don't want to tie too much $$ into it-also barrel lenght/twist rate suggestions appreciated.

Thanks

Dave

dave: if you reload, I'd recommend the Roberts. Great little round, everyone ought to have one! But if you don't reload, I'd go with the 25/06. Jim

When you figure out a solid reason for one over the other let me know, I have a couple of 98 actions and I have debated the "ideal" cartridge for each, and I just cannot come up with a clean answer. In the case of the Roberts versus the 25/06 my choice would run toward the 257 as long as you reload and are not looking for the maximum performance level, which = more noise and recoil(25/06).

I don't re-load...yet, but with all the resources on the internet I can get 257 ammo anywhere-I just worry about leaving it at the house on a trip and being "stuck out" where as 25 06 I can get at any walmart.

another question...will I need to do any modifications to the action or will it be a simple case of installing a new barrel?

Thanks

Dave

The 7x57 and its offspring(257 Roberts are one)operate on pressures in the 40,000---45,000 cup range thereabouts. The 30-06 and it's offspring(25-06 are one) in the 50,000---55,000 cup thereabouts. This makes for the .257 to be a lot less blasty and less recoil. Sure,it has lesser velocity,but in my books,it's not earth shattering. What will the 25-06 really do that the .257 Roberts doesn't? Some will say plenty? But then again,what will the 25-06 do that the .270 doesn't? Certainly by the sales of 25-06 since Rem adopted it about 1969 there are lots of folks around that disagree with me,but I thought it was a fine answer when there was no question.

Since the action was originally chambered for the 57mm case, the Roberts will likely fit better, especially with 120 gr. deerandhog bullets. The '06 will give you 1.25" less drop at 300 yards. How important is that, given that the kill zone on your targets of choice is the size of a volleyball? Remington ammo is likely more common but how much will you actually need in a 'loaner' rifle? Honestly, I think the evidence slightly favors the Roberts but you could make a perfectly good choice by flipping a coin!

Dan... thats the truth, the 250 savage is a extreamly deadly, user friendly cartridge.

Dave, I owned and hunted with the 250 sav, 25-06, and the 257 wby for quite some time now. The 257 Roberts has always been a big turn off for me for two reasons... It isnt a "package" like the 250 savage is, and #2 the first thing people who own and reload a 257roberts do is see how close they can get to the 25-06(257 roberts +P ammo ect). Why bother? GOOD working rifles in 257 roberts are in a 30-06 length action anyways. Both the 25-06 and the 257 wby are absolute bolts from above on critters. The 25-06 is the most usefull in terms of range summed with avalibility.

Hmm, I think the .250 Savage and the Roberts are great, have little use for the .25-06. The -06 has little advantage over the Bob, and if I want more reach I'm likely to go for a 6.5/something which has superior bullet availability. Or a 7mm. Or a .30 Something......... The quarter bore's lack of high quality bullets, and perhaps heavier weights(higher BC) will always limit it's potential. Some will say "yeah, but you can really get more out of them by handloading." True, but the relative performance does not change, whether it is Plain Bob and the -06, or the AI'd variations. The relative case capacity remains the same.

The .250 Savage is in my opinion, the perfect cartridge for a stalking/walking gun for the likes of deer sized game. It gives up little ground to the Roberts if any for the 100 gr or lighter bullets, and only a bit more to the -06. Why bother with all the noise and recoil? Short action as well, but that's not a show stopper, just convenient.

Oldsarge(I feel like I'm talking to myself--I r an old sarge too)---The way to make a bullet heavier is to make it longer. I 'thought"(dangerous deal)that 120 grains was where the .25 reached it's limit???? Anyways if talking 25-06 and heavier bullet wanted,why not go to .270?

Well fellas, this is great conversation, but my problem has been solved! Found someone who wanted the 8mm more that I wanted to turn it into something else, so it is gone (pending funds). So now the quest for a ruger 77 tang safety in 257 roberts resumes! Heck, I might even settle for a winchester model 70 if the price is right. I don't know why I just feel and empty spot in the safe with out a 25 caliber in there...

Dave

Old Sarge--Where did you read it that I read that 120 grain was max length? I said I thought it. There's gotta be a length where if you go longer you'd need a bolt extension?? Maybe not--you could have the bullet sticking plum out the end of the barrel.

Back in the 50's or 60's a gunsmith bought out a round called the 257 Condor, a belted case much like the 257 Wby. These were made up with a 1/7 twist and he shot 160gr. bullets. The storey goes he thought high rotation speed of the bullet had as much to do as the velocity and bullet weight in the killing power.

Anyway, about the 25/06 vs. 257 Rob. I hunt deer here in the wide open breakes along the Snake & Clearwater rivers.
The 3 rifles I use most are a 7mm. mag., 270Win., and 25/06. I don't feel I give up anything with the 25/06 in range or killing power on deer out to 400yds. compared to the other two. It does have noticeably less recoil. In the past I have owned and hunted with a 257 Rob. and to me it's more in the class of a 243, not bad, but still less then a 25/06. Another thing, you don't have to worry about setting your lugs back trying to get the last foot of velocity in the 25/06 as most people do with the +P loads in the Roberts. Pedro

Ah! I misunderstood. Let me see if I'm closer this time. If you are loading the bullet to the base of the case neck then the longest bullet that you could load would be determined by the length of the throat? Could it be done in a 25/06 with a roundnose bullet longer than 120 grains. I would be certain that it could. Besides, the Roberts is a shorter case and there would be plenty of room then. I have this pipedream that the most lethal bullet you could put into a 257 would be in the order of 154 grains. At around 25-2700 fps, that ought to absolutely shiskabob anything in North America and 95% of anything in Africa. It might not do it at 400 yards, but in that case a lighter bullet is definitely called for . . . and driven as fast as you can!

While this may be a moot point at this time from what I can see has happened to the original action, check out the .257 Roberts/Ackley Improved.

It duplicates (or even surpasses) much of the .25-06's Ballistics (a more efficient cartridge) with LESS powder!

Remember the weight of the powder charge is included in all recoil calculations etc.

So with the .25-06 you're usually "pushing powder with powder".

Also, you can still fire Standard .257 Roberts rounds in the Improved chamber. In fact that's one way to fire form cases to reload.

I wish I'd looked at this before I had a custom built '98 Mauser built in .25-06

Pete: it ain't real scientific, but according to my method, the water capacity of of 25/06 is 65.5 gr while the capacity of a 257AI is 60.5gr. (This was done by filling up and empty case with water from the kitchen sink and weighing it on my reloading scales) That's about an 8% difference, if you accept John Barnsnes theory that the potential velocity increase is 25% of the capacity difference, the 25/06 should be good for about 60fps more.

In my experience with 257AI's and 25/06's, I ususally get about 3050 to 3100 fps with a 120gr bullet from either one for best accuracy. I would assume that the pressures are probably slightly higher in the AI's.

Clearly there ain't much difference, and certainly the AI can easily exceed FACTORY 25/06 ballistcs.

Either way, they are both great calibers and lots of fun!

I have owned several .257 Roberts and .25-06�s standard and Improved and like um all. If wishes counted for anything I would like to see Robert�s introductory articles from the American Rifleman, in 1929 and 1930, reprinted to clear up some major misunderstandings. It is handy to remember that there was no �slow burning powder� in 1929 to speak of. Also Phil Sharpe had two sets of data. One set was for the original wildcat and the other was for the factory cartridge. Lyman �Pet Loads� data for .257 Roberts prior to the advent of .243 and major lawsuits is similar to contemporary +P data. Those who have loaded these cartridges, 25-06 and .257 Roberts, to the same pressures in level playing field test have generally found interesting results. Outcomes are similar to the results from 6mm/6mm-06. Basically, we are messing around spoiling an excellent excuse for having a bunch of pretty nice rifles. The most bang for the buck is probably with the .250 Savage. I like um all and have paid enough dues not to have to justify my likes.

I've been debating this .257Roberts or .25-06 question with myself for about 30 years, and as a result have neither. I can think of several things about each to like, and very little negative about either caliber. My 6mm Rem. steals some of the Roberts thunder, and living in the east I guess I don't really need the long distances associated with the .25-06. So here I sit, wanting both and having neither.
Life can be hell brother! Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal

Pssssst, Cal.... .257 .257 .257 .257 .257

With the rifles I've had 2-257Robs./ top velocity with a 117gr. bulletin a 22in. barrel is 2800fps. Add 100ft. for an AI. I had with a 24in . barrel. A 22in. 25/06 will hit 3000ft. With a 117gr. bullet hits 3150 easy with a 24in. barrel. BTW, my 25 Souper hits 2840fps. with a 120gr bullet out of a 22in. barrel. I'am not nocking any of the various 25s as it my favorite cal. In my experience all the AIs get their increased velocity with primer-pocket expanding pressure. Look at some of John Barsness other articals and he dosen't think much of the various improved cartridges. Pedro