Has anyone here ever shot, or even seen a ".22 Navy"?

Developed about a decade or two before the .22 Newton, it was supposedly developed by the U.S. War Department about 1900 or somewhat earlier.

It was built on a rimmed case similar to the .30-40 Krag, BUT about a half an inch longer. It fired a 120 grain .22 bullet. Though the data is vague, it was apparently a .224" diameter bullet too, rather than .228" such as the later .22 HP. Velocity was reportedly about 2,600 f.p.s. with that 120 gr. "pencil" it fired.

After considerable experimentation, it was dropped and the 6 m/m Lee Navy cartridge developed and adopted instead.

Zowie! A 120 gr. .224" bullet at 2,600 fps with pre-1900 powders? Now with the current slow powders that might move fast enough to really be interesting!

Wow, a 120gr .22 bullet would have to be about 4" long wouldn't it???

quote:

Originally posted by stillbeeman:
Wow, a 120gr .22 bullet would have to be about 4" long wouldn't it???

Darned if I know, but I'm SURE it would be an impressive phallic symbol. Seriously, it would have to be fearsome long, and though I haven't figured out what twist would be required, it would have to be fearsome short!!...like maybe 1 turn in 5" to 1 in 6".

And then of course the silly question would be why? That's not even a 'torpedo', it's an 'arrow'! One of life's mysteries, I guess.

This sounds rather like a somewhat confused reference to the 6mm Lee Navy, which used a 112 grain bullet in a straight pull bolt action manufactured by Winchester. Used by Navy and USMC around 1894-1903.

gary

The 6mm Lee Navy is the parent case of the 220 Swift. I have only ever seen one 6mm Lee Navy rifle in my life; it was a Winchester but I forget the model number if there even was one marked.

The following is from "Cartridges-A Pictorial Digest of Small Arms Ammunition" , by Herschel Logan (1948).

22 F. A. Experimental
Total length 3 1/2"
2 3/4" tinned necked case
Dia. at head .420
Dia. at mouth .250
120gr metal jacket bullet .224 dia.

In december of 1896 Franford Arsenal experimented with this .22 caliber cartridge with the idea of a smaller service caliber.

It's a rimmed case. I'll see if I can get a picture up.

The drawing is the actual size of the round. Length of the bullet (case mouth to meplat) measures .800". That, plus whatever the length below the case mouth makes for one long .22cal bullet.

Before anyone thinks of creating a wildcat like this, be mindful that casting such long 'arrow-like' bullets tends to produce bent castings! Swaging them would work.

One of you mathematicians out there needs to calculate the optimum twist rate for this round. Like AC said, it's gotta be like 1/5 or 1/6. While your at it, how about bullet RPM also.

quote:

Originally posted by blueman:
This sounds rather like a somewhat confused reference to the 6mm Lee Navy, which used a 112 grain bullet in a straight pull bolt action manufactured by Winchester. Used by Navy and USMC around 1894-1903.

gary

And rough sounds like ruff, but they aren't the same thing.

I've owned two 6 mm Lee Navy rifles in my life, both bought used at the same shop in the
Burnside area of Vancouver, B.C. back in the early 1970s. There was another I failed to buy in a shop in the Mission district of San Francisco in 1960 that I should have gotten, but it didn't have any clips. I know what a Lee Navy 6 m/m is, and this ain't it.

Incidentally, if you want a real project sometime, try finding and buying a few spare original clips for the 6 Lee Navy rifle