I have heard a lot from those who have
several hundred dollars for their very good
scope poo-poo any scope for less than $200,
even though they have had no experience
with them. And yet, I have personally talked
to a few who have used Simmons, BSA, & Tasco
who seemed to be satisfied with the lower end scopes.

My question here is for those who have used those lower priced scopes, mainly the BSA Mil-dot and Tasco Mil-dot scopes. PLEASE, just those of you who have used these
scopes. For the rest of you, I PROMISE to get one that will cost about the same as the T/C Encore - VVCG Tac20 barrel combination in a year or two. But right now, I'm TAPPED OUT and need something to "get by" for awhile.

If indeed they work "OK", I'm looking at either the BSA 8-32x40mm Mil-dot or the Tasco 6-24x42mm Mil-dot. Anyone here have experience with either of these two?
(I understand that there was trouble at first with the Chinese Tasco, but those being sold now supposedly have these problems solved.
Why did Tasco abandon our friends in Thaiwan,
anyway?)

I had a Simmons on a 7mm Weatherby that came with the rifle. One of can you help a buddy out deal. Well the rifle shot great, with one little problem, every time I would zero the rifle in with that great scope, it would be fine that day, a week later the zero would be off a foot or so. Since I hunt a lot and well it cost money, I put a 2.5 x 10 x 42 Ziess on it. I then Zeroed it in for a hunt and well that was 8 years ago and its still zeroed for that distance and bullet weight. I now only fire a shot of two to check before a hunt if I want to use a 7mm Weatherby. My guess the Simmons was shot loose. As far as scopes go you get just what you are willing to pay. Simmons and Tasco's for the most part they are not cheap enough. My last big game with that 7mm WM was a Bull Elk in Montana it was a 3500 dollar shot and I am not rich enough to shoot a Tasco sight.

quote:

---

Originally posted by DannoBoone:
I have heard a lot from those who have
several hundred dollars for their very good
scope poo-poo any scope for less than $200,
even though they have had no experience
with them. And yet, I have personally talked
to a few who have used Simmons, BSA, & Tasco
who seemed to be satisfied with the lower end scopes.

My question here is for those who have used those lower priced scopes, mainly the BSA Mil-dot and Tasco Mil-dot scopes. PLEASE, just those of you who have used these
scopes. For the rest of you, I PROMISE to get one that will cost about the same as the T/C Encore - VVCG Tac20 barrel combination in a year or two. But right now, I'm TAPPED OUT and need something to "get by" for awhile.

If indeed they work "OK", I'm looking at either the BSA 8-32x40mm Mil-dot or the Tasco 6-24x42mm Mil-dot. Anyone here have experience with either of these two?
(I understand that there was trouble at first with the Chinese Tasco, but those being sold now supposedly have these problems solved.
Why did Tasco abandon our friends in Thaiwan,
anyway?)

---

DannoBoone/ I haven't owned any of the mentioned scopes but does listening to the tales of sorrow and replacing many of them while running a buy/trade/sell local gun shop count.....yes SOME of the lower cost scopes work well and are fine for many people....but the problem is not the total the problem is the ONE you buy and try to use......do you feel LUCKY? some work for years and the next one on the shelf has the lens fall out on the second shot.....I've seen it and heard all about it....some people are happy with guns that can hit a dinner plate at 100yds and so those scopes work well for them......BSA is a bad bet.....China made T's little better......buy a used decent quality scope....from a reputable dealer...if it don't work swap for another one? NO ONE can promise that the ONE YOU will get will be good.....I have even seen Leupolds and Zeiss scopes that were bad....but they stand out because that is rare rather than normal.....sorry but this is the real world ...good luck and good shooting!!!!

If you check around I believe that you can find a high power target type scope by Weaver. I believe you would be better served with this scope that with one of the "cheaper" scopes. The Weavers are a really terrific buy. They will take a beating, and they are priced right. Ku-dude

I've got one of the Tasco 2.5-10 Varmint/Target scopes.
Optically, it is outstandingly sharp. Seems to hold zero, though, admittedly, I've not had it on anything bigger than a .222.
It is an extremely well thought out design, that I do not regret purchasing.
Oh yeah, almost forgot, I'm a Leupold fan too, and own several.
No experience whatsoever with the BSA
Ken

Tasco or BSA..hmmmmm. Personally, I wouldn't buy either if I could help it. If I had to buy one or the other, I'd buy the Tasco. I wouldn't touch a BSA with a 10 foot pole. They're usually not worth the money it costs to ship one to your door. That's why I'm one of those Leupold people, they just plain work, period. I also second the comment about the Weaver T-36. I have one I use for load development and it is a very good scope. I may even paint a gold ring on it some day.

I've had a $25 bushnell on a .458win for 12 years, zeroed it once, and it's still on, shoot's sub moa!

I got a $150 buck redfield on my 358norma and it hasnt budged, but the old simmons i had busted after about 12 shots.

My philosphy with the cheaper scopes is to keep it simple. I have quite a few simmons and tasco scopes, but they are either straight 4X or 3X9's. I had to send a 3X9 back last year but that was because there was a blob of fuzz the appeared in the scope, it still zeroed. When you start getting into the higher magnifications you also increase the chances of having problems, stay conservative and I think you will be able to find a cheap scope you can live with.

Mark's got it right. The simpler a cheap scope, the more likely it is to perform satisfactorily. Usually, a straight 4x in a Japanese scope will be fine. Stay away from the high power variables because the variable mechanism introduces problems and the higher magnification exaggerates the flaws in the optics.

Ditto, staying with fixed power scopes increases the odds that it won't break.
Better buy a premium used scope than a low cost new one also...
olivier

I hear your pain, but here is something to think about. If you are planning to get a $100 scope to get by, while saving for the $300 scope, then the good scope will be $100 further away, and you'll have a $100 scope collecting dust when you get the upgrade.

I have now seen the light, and will sell a spare gun to get a good scope, rather then skimp on good optics. I have a BSA 20X spotter, it was a waste of $20 odd dollars, and I can see targets better with 8X binoculars. I have a few $40 4x scopes on 22's, and they work ok on that applicationj, though one did have a lens fall out on a hard kicking 10/22.

If you are after a high X scope for target use, it has to have both clear enough optics to see the target, and be built well enough to keep a zero.

Weaver makes fine products at reasonble prices, and you should check SWFA's demo page, as they have good deals on used and demo scopes.

It has nothing to do with snob appeal as to why we recomend decent optics. It has to do with us learning first hand that cheap optics are a waste of money. If I could get a good scope for $50, I'd gladly buy one, but I have yet to find a servicable hunting/target scope for less then $150-200, and when you look at higher magnification, you're looking at $300-500.

Good luck Danno, I think you have undertaken the impossible undertaking!!!

------------------
May your chambers be true to your bores.

I have had bad luck with trashco and bsa scopes and would not recomend them.However a good scope that is relatively inexpensive are the Swift scopes.The swift scopes are very good for the money.Although not as good as a Leupold or Zeiss scope they are much better than the bsa,simmons and tasco scopes.I bought a Swift 4x12x40 scope with AO a while back for $120 dollars.The scope holds it's zero and has fairly good optics too.I have seen the Swift 3x9 scopes sell for around $100 dollars and the fixed power scopes for even less.

In your case I would rather buy a second-hand first quality scope than a first-hand second quality scope. I suppose your better gun dealers offer good used scopes to good prices.

Some years ago I bought a sparly used Zeiss 1,5-6x42 for the same price as a new Tasco. I did never regret that choice. Stupidly enough I sold it again.

Fritz

[This message has been edited by Fritz Kraut (edited 03-02-2002).]

I would not recommend buying a BSA. I bought a fixed power 36XAO on closeout from Midway for a low dollar project I was working on. When I was finally ready to mount it, the AO wouldn't adjust. I'm going around with their customer service now since the scope is no longer in production. I'll let you know how it turns out. I knew better, but it was just too good of a deal to pass up. If/when it's repaired, I'll turn it into a spotting scope. Best bet is to buy quality used vs junk new.

I have had 3 BSA scopes, the first two are 2.5 power shotgun scopes and while eye relief is kind of long they work fine on my 12 gauge shotgun and my 54 cal muzzle loader. The third is a 3x12 with a 40 mm Ao and I have to admit it is a clear scope with reliable adjustments and it has held it's zero on my 6mm remington.

I used to buy Simmons scopes, and never really had any "problems" with them holding zero or with adjustments. However, many years ago we were shooting late one afternoon, and when I had to quit because I couldn't see the target anymore, my buddy still had another good 20 minutes of shooting time using his Leupold Vari X II.... I don't use Simmons anymore. BTW, even if you buy a used Leupold and find something wrong, it still carries that lifetime warranty, and they will make it right.

Good luck, Bill

Yep---they are ok, had them all at one time or another. One gets what one pays for. If the game you�re shooting is not important enough to see and hit properly then anything will do. If one the other hand precise bullet placement in poor light conditions is desired, then don�t skimp. It�s always amazing to see one purchase a $1000 gun in some exotic caliber (I have 2-17 Ack Hor, a 17 HeBee, a 17 Ack Bee and a 22 Mashburn Bee) and then put a cheap scope on it. I have a 6X-24X B&L (older model) that I will take $250 for and you can pay me over whatever time you need. I have 12 of the B&L�s so won�t miss one.
My 2 pennies worth
Brooks

Stay away for BSA!!! Had two 6x24, both junk. If you want to get a good scope and save some monet, look into a factory referbished Burris frow Natchez Shooters Supply(www.natchez.com). These scopes carry a full lifetime guarantee just like there new scopes. My brother and I have bought these scopes, from there fullfield, signature, and black diamond line. You can not tell any differance from there new scopes.

This may not make everyone happy, but I have several scopes, most of them are Leupold vari-x 2's. I also have some less costly scopes. On my .243 winchester, There sits a Tasco 3x9 scope. It has been there for over 10 years and shoots as well as any other scope, including any of the Leupolds. I also have a Simmons 6.5X20 scope on my Browning 1885 in .22-.250 caliber. The scope has been on the rifle about 9 years, and shoots 1/4" groups at 100 meters. I have seen a Weatherby scope that lost its zero, and who knows who made that scope, but it was a high-dollar scope. I had a Tasco red dot scope mounted on a S&W model 41 .22 caliber pistol that had a hairline crack in the front lens. Tasco people didn't really want to, but they did replace the scope. I have an old Weaver scope with the front adjustable objective lens, and it is a fine scope, but I also have a 4X Weaver sitting on my .358 Norma magnum that just doesn't enlarge the target enough for me. I have never had a scope go bad, except for the Weatherby scope, but if a scope does go bad, you will think it is something wrong with your rifle or yourself first. If I was going on a safari, I sure wouldn't take just one rifle with me. It is not just the scope that can go bad, but many things. Just to shoot squirrels, I usually take 3-4 rifles along. Why would anyone go hunting with only one gun? What if you fell, and broke the stock, or damaged the rifle so it wouldn't shoot?

My Savage .30-06 came with a Simmons 3-9x30. I don't know which specific model or what the scope alone would cost, but I figure it is probably a $50 scope.

Group sizes? Sitting at a bench and resting the rifle on something (but not sandbagging), at a 100 yards, around 3 to 2 inch groups with various factory ammo. Seems like after 1st shot, the other shots move away from it and form their own group. So maybe cold barrel shoots different than subsequent shots? But subsequent shots don't group tighter than 2 inches, either. Could be me, but I can group 1 inch with my .223. Maybe the recoil bothers me? Doubt it because I shoot .44 mag handgun and can pretty much mentally accept the recoil and blast.

So, what's wrong? Maybe nothing. I just accept that level of accuracy and take deer with it anyway. Afterall, offhand shooting introduces even more inaccuracy. And if I can offhand get a 6 inch group then I'm ok up to that distance.

Well, the other day I was in gunshop and decided to buy a Leupold 3-9x40 for $200. What the heck, I figure, can't hurt. And if it doesn't solve the problem then I have an extra scope for another rifle.

So, exact same type of shooting, same place, same type of rest, same ammo, same scope rings, same everything. Yet now the groups are 1 inch. Shot the .223 at the same time, and it was 1 inch as usual, so I'm not shooting better, and the shooting conditions weren't better. So why did my .30-06 cut it's group sizes in half? And why didn't the group seem to wander away from the 1st shot?

Was there something defective with the Simmons? I don't know. Maybe the Leupold just gives me a crisper image or finer crosshairs or something, and then that makes me shoot better? I don't know. The Simmons wasn't loose in the rings or anything when I took it off. And the Simmons didn't really seem to get progressively worse with each shooting session, but it just seemed that my shots wandered a bit, especially away from the 1st shot each time. For hunting, I realized that I could shoot pretty good 1 shot groups, and so kept me scope zeroed on that first shot hit Now, however, it seems with my Leupold that all the shots hit near the first shot. That's a neat concept.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. I think I will mount the Simmons on a .22 and try it.