Ok I have had a my Rem Mod 700 for about 10 years in 22-250. I cannot tell you how many rounds I have put through it but if I had to guess, I would say very close to 1000 (+/- 200). I have shot mostly factory until about the last 6 months when I started reloading for it. Now I cannot get it to group. My best group is about 1 inch at 100 yards. I can shoot better than that and have other good shooters try also.

Another note on the rifle is after the break in, I had a match chamber put in and bedded and pillared. Robar in AZ did the work.

I have tried four different primers, IMR powders 3031, 4064, 4895, Alliant R7 and R15. In each string of powders I find the best group and then play with bullet depth.

I wsa shooting Federal Factory 55 grain hollow points in at 1/4 inch groups a year ago. I have not tried them again to see if it just likes factory.

I guess I am concerned that the barrel may be going bye bye.

Tell us how you've been cleaning it, and how often.

Cleaning depends. If have 20 shots in my in loads that I want to check, usually after 12 rounds (4 3 shot groups). Then in that instance I wipe the boare with dry patch, then a sweets patch, let it sit for about 5 minutes, then wipe it with several dry patches.

When I get home, I repeat the process except I use a bronze brush after the 5 minute wait. I then run shooters choice through it and let it sit for a minute or two. I then run dry patches through until they are clean (usually 2 to 3).

If I have shot alot, like out prairie doggin or something, it might be after 30 or so rounds. Then I clean it a little more rigerous. I run two sweets patches through with the same procedure as above.

I have cleaned them and always check before I take the gun out and verified that I got all the fouling out.

270, I think you have answered your own question. Go spend the bucks for a box of factory stuff that you know it likes and see if it still shoots tight groups. If it does, you know that you still need to find the right handload.

And it seems like you may be cleaning too much. A lot of guns need some fouling to really shoot good. Some guns do like a clean bore though. Go to the Big Game Hunting forum and scroll back to January 21. There is a thread I started titled "Barrel Clean or Dirty". It may offer some help.

Good Luck!

My 270 WSM loves a fouled barrel. My 22-250 with facotry anyway, likes a clean barrel. That was the only reason I clean it so often. In my 270 my groups start to enlarge around 30 rounds without cleaning.

Disassemble a factory load and take a look at what the powder type appears to be, and the charge weight....then chronograph the load.....

I just did this to a 223 Remington Factory load and a Winchester....with a 45 grainHP bullet on them...

Winchester used 25 grains of powder that was a flaked powder....

Remington used 27 grains of a flaked powder....

So I can guestimate that Winchester is probably likely to be using a Winchester powder... so the logical place to start was W 748... so I loaded up some cases with 25 grains of W 748... and chronographed them against the factory loads.. they were close enough...The factory could be using a powder that isn't available to the public...

The Remington stuff used the same looking powder.. I also assumed that they would not be using Winchester powder... so I thougth H 335 and BLC 2 would be a good place to start.....

started with H 335 and did the same as above.. compared the handloads to factory loads for velocity... once again, very very close... so I can assume that I can duplicate the performance with H 335 even if it may not be the powder they are using....

Accuracy in both instances were as good as the factory loads....

After just 1000 rounds, your barrel should not be going south.... maybe after 5 to 7000 rounds especially if fired in high volume...but a 1000 over the 10 or so years you mentioned.. I don't think so....

but good luck with it!

cheers
seafire

Find a borescope and end the guessing!
Perhaps a local gunclub has one or a gunsmith.
I would be real dissapointed if that barrel is gone in that low of round count.
Unless you are just looking for a reason to have a premium barrel installed

If you have been using a normal amount of disclipline in your rate of fire, 1000 rounds isn't enough to wash out your barrel.
I didn't understand what your meant by having "a match chamber put in" after your break in.
I have found H380 and H414 to be excellent powders for the 22-250. But to make a generic start: Rem brass (neck turned if you can) cci-br primers, 38grs/H380, 52/53gr Sierra match bullets, seated just off the lands. This should give you some very good groups. Maybe not the best but certainly something to start from. Adding a pinch or two of powder should be all the adjustment you need.
I had a 22-250 VS rebarreled a couple of years ago that had several thousand rounds thru it. (I don't keep track of that stuff either) Each spring before Pdog season, I would adjust the bullet jump to compensate for last year's throat erosion. Then I would use a Chrony to adjust my powder charge to where it was back up to speed and then shoot another year.
I have found that the smaller bores are much more sensitive to powder fouling than the larger ones. But it will vary from rifle to rifle. You do understand that when you use a bronze brush with your sweets or shooters choice or what have you, you are melting the brush onto the walls of the bore don't you.
Were it me, I'd clean the rifle good. Really good so you're starting with a bare bore. I would buy some of the factory ammo to use as a bench mark and start over (with my generic load ) Clean the bore back to bare metal every say 10 shots while you're doing your research.
If you do indeed have a factory barrel that will shoot factory ammo into a .25" group, I would go to considerable length before I rebarreled it.

Try this, clean the carbon out first and then run a wet patch down the bore with any(not Sweet's) of the ammonia solvents and let it sit over night. You wont believe what comes out on the first patch. Repeat if necessary.
Wipeout or any of the foam cleaners will do in minutes what the above method takes hours to equal.
My guess is that your barrel is badly metal fouled and most likely not shot out.
I got a sweet deal on a 700 BDL several years back that was so metal fouled that it shot patterns instead of groups. After a thorough cleaning it now shoots into .4.

Stepchild

I would rub some JB bore paste down that tube and clean it till the cows come home, and soak it throughly. Then I would have it bore scoped. I think it should shoot unless the crown was damaged. The round count s too low to be a burn out.

quote:

Originally posted by Hairtrigger:
Find a borescope and end the guessing!
Perhaps a local gunclub has one or a gunsmith.
I would be real dissapointed if that barrel is gone in that low of round count.
Unless you are just looking for a reason to have a premium barrel installed

IMHO, this is the best suggestion on the first course of action.

Having a .22-250 myself with about 3k through it, I really don't think it's burned out either.

quote:

Originally posted by Stepchild 2:
Try this, clean the carbon out first and then run a wet patch down the bore with any(not Sweet's) of the ammonia solvents and let it sit over night. You wont believe what comes out on the first patch. Repeat if necessary.
Wipeout or any of the foam cleaners will do in minutes what the above method takes hours to equal.
My guess is that your barrel is badly metal fouled and most likely not shot out.
I got a sweet deal on a 700 BDL several years back that was so metal fouled that it shot patterns instead of groups. After a thorough cleaning it now shoots into .4.

I think Hairtrigger & Stepchild are really onto it, but, I think you have hard carbon fouling, not so much copper.

First, copper is easily removed, since it is soluable. Sweets should get a lot of it, and Wipe-Out will get ALL of it, but neither will do much to carbon. Carbon, being an element, does not dissolve, and must be scrubbed out - the copper will come completely out with chemical action alone, long before the carbon moves at all.

Everybody focuses on copper, when carbon build-up is usually far worse, and harder to get out. BTDT.

Want to quickly prove to yourself you have carbon? Take a new bronze brush and wet it with solvent, then make about ten passes (in & out) with this wet brush. Let it sit for about ten minutes, then run a tight patch through it.

Ignore a little green stain at this point, since this is from the bronze brush residue. See any black at all on the patch? If so, you have carbon fouling.

You should be able to feel this build-up with a tight, dry patch or a new brush. Coming back from the muzzle end of the barrel with your brush/patch, just before coming out of the chamber, you'll feel the brush/patch drag on it, like it's sticky.

You can repeat this wet brush/dry patch process until you're sick of doing it and you will get a lot of it, but probably not all. Then, use 308Sako's advice and put some JB through it. If you're lucky, this will get almost all of it out.

You can test by repeating the tight, wet brush followed by a clean patch routine - until the wet patch comes out perfectly clean.

Want to see how bad this can get if one cannot recognise it's presence? I admit this is an extreme example, but exactly the same thing.
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/2.../r/36210766#36210766

{edited to fix the misquote-sorry}

When group size blooms I expect something about the launch of the bullet is not cool. I check the crown first for any damage or anything that is not symmetrical.

Second choice is something is going on with the timing of the bullet's exit from the muzzle compared to the barrel's vibrations. Your good load leaves the barrel at a null, and this new load probably leaves at some "big" displacement from the null.

Cleaning problems can throw the exit timing off.

I would go back and see if your great factory load still works, as noted above.

Then work up a new load using optimum charge weight methodology.

What is a "match chamber", and how is it put in?

WHen I "shot out" the barrel on my .243 mossberg 800, which was I still have as it has sentimental value, the bullets wouldn't group at all... Kind of hard to get any sort of accuracy when they were key-holing at 25 yrds. I put ALOT of rounds through that gun, I am talking 10,000+. My grandfather did shot it quite often prior to passing it on to me when he passed away.

I would have your crown checked and recut if necessary, and clean the heck out of that barrel prior to considering it shot out.

Ok to answer some questions and some of my results today. First the match chamber. That is what I have heard it called but Robar calls it accurizing. The receiver is is machined true to the bore and bolt lugs. The barrel threads are re cut and timed with the barrel.

Second, I cleaned the rifle as you suggested. I got a minimal amount of carbon out. I tried the procedure twice and a very very small amount of black on the second pass. So I do not think that was the problem and my previous cleaning procedure msut be adaquete.

I then went to the range. I shot factory loads and got very good groups with Remington 55 grain soft points, very good with Federal 55 grain BTHP. Winchester sucked, but I have never had good luck with them in any of my guns.

So I must not have my handloads right. Although I have copied the factory bullet depths, but not the powder. So I called Remington. They were very helpful and told me that they use a proprietary powder. They gave me a few options and suggested IMR 4895 and H380. They also were under the opinion that my barrel was not even to its halfway point of retirement.

Thanks for all your advice and opinions. I will keep at it. If I get more frustrated I will say screw it and shoot factory, right now it is a war that I want to win.

quote:

Originally posted by 270WSMMan:
I guess I am concerned that the barrel may be going bye bye.

270WSMMAN

At a thousand rounds that barrel shouldn't be shot out. I have a Winchester Heavy Varminter. It's over 1600 rounds and seems to be shooting better. So maybe I'm shooting better and the guns shooting worse.

When your cleaning the rifle do you use Sweets 7.62? I would suspect that you have a cooper fowling problem first off. If you do take care of that then check your loads again.

IMR 4895 is one of the go to powders for 22-250 and that is where I'd start along with a box of 50 Gr. V-Max's.

270, that's what makes reloading fun,,,,,,the challenge of developing that "perfect" load.

Good Luck.

270WSMMAN,
Are you anywhere near Prescott? If so bring it out to the range and look me up and I will make it shoot or figure out why it won't. Jim

quote:

I wsa shooting Federal Factory 55 grain hollow points in at 1/4 inch groups a year ago. I have not tried them again to see if it just likes factory.

Do that first!!

1000 rounds should NOT shoot out a .22/250 barrel. I bet it is merely fouled up with bullet metal! Scrub well with J.B. Paste.

270:

I had a problem at about 6000 shots thru my Sako .222R/Mag. Had never made a group over a dime size no matter how many shots. then it wouldn't hold less than 6" scattered. After my gunsmith said it was "shot out". had him rebarrel it.

Talked to an old timer with lots of exp. with such things and he swears the barrel was dirty and I should have "cleaned it right". Too late Jack, it's been replaced.

Another thing about this particular barrel. Even when it was a brand new gun. The bore had 4-5 "hollow" places where the slug, or bullets would completely lose contact and just fall around in there. The 4-6" at the muzzle was tight and the gun always shot fine tight groups when tested. But, the vast majority of shots went out at prairie dogs and it seldom missed them, even out past 600yds on calm days.

My gunsmith said IF the muzzle had been stopped up, there would have been one buldge in the bore, but, where this one had several hollows it had to be a defective barrel and Sako should have replaced it. But, Stoeger refused to assist in that as it was not one they'd imported to the states.

Since I bought the gun at the gun club in Germany and shipped it home myself, and not thru Stoeger, they refused to assist me in getting Sako to replace the barrel. When I had it replaced we used a Midwayusa barrel blank, A&?? whatever it is. Fantastic shooter again, just might be a better shooter now than it ever was, and Sako's are supposed to be one of the worlds finest guns.

Inspect that barrel for bad spots, slug it with a small chunk of soft lead. Push gently and pay attention to make sure the barrel don't have any slick, or loose, or tighter spots in it. IF it does, send it to the factory and they'll replace it as defective. Had a buddy that never ever put a patch thru his .17 Rem and they replaced the barrel twice in ten years for him. He shot thousands of reloads every year with it.

Ok: Invest $7 and a half hour to make sure the bore is cleaned to the steel. Get every bit of everything out of it. Here's how.

Get a tube of Blue Wonder Gun Cleaner, a new brass brush, soak the brush with all the jell it will hold.

Take ten strokes, then a ten minute break while it soaks, then ten more strokes. Then patch it til it's clean.

Make sure to oil it soon as it's clean, or else it will flash rust and you'll be looking for me with your worst attitude. This will clean it to the metal. Once you've done this.

Then get a box of those 55gr loads it used to group so well and try it.

Another thing, use the rod/patch and count the twist. KNOW the twist rate. Unless you know the best twist for the weight bullet, call any of the barrel makers and tell them you have: xx" twist, and ask what's the best weight bullet for this twist?

Anything of a different weight just might not shoot. As it used to shoot factory 55gr's, get some 55's and load them up. Get several different brands if you can. Keep them separate and load them all the same except the bullets.

Compare 5 shot groups and see which brand/type makes the best group. Once you know for sure it still shoots 55gr like it should.

Use the very same load, and change to lighter weight bullets, again, several different brands/types and 5 shot groups to compare.

I think doing this, you'll discover a few things. That's called: education.

Once you've sorted things out after doing it THIS way, let us all know what you learned.

Good luck, and have fun, don't let a simple thing like a gun bore blow your mind. It's an inantimate object!! Can't be smarter than you, can it?? (hehe)

George