Not every rifle that you buy turns out to be a tack driver, at least not every rifle that I have bought.

If you have tried all the screws tightening, scope checks, stock modifications/replacements, reloading searches for bullet and powder combos, and the darn thing still won't perform like you thought it would for the intended purpose of it's purchase. What do you then do??

1. Trade it in and see if someone will buy it off the used shooter rack.

2. Give it away to a family member who either doesn't know it won't group well or could care less.

3. Put an add in the paper/internet and hope to sell it to a stranger who will never come back.

I'll take a stab at this one. IF I liked the rifle and can't get it to shoot well, I might be inclined to re-barrel it to another caliber. On the other hand, if it was nothing special and I couldn't get it to shoot, I might trade it at a gunshow...possibly for another one that doesn't shoot?

4. Take it to a good 'smith and have him check
it out. See if the chamber is centered with the
bore.

5. Use it as a tomato stake. Treat your fellow
man as you would want him to treat you, and don't
screw him.

I'd rebarrel it and have the action squared.

I've shot next to guys at the range who couldn't stop talking about their 4" groups at 25 yards showing "extreme accuracy".
I've sold guns to guys that had no idea that only a 1 moa gun could be considered a good shooter.

There's no need to hamstring yourself by assuming everyone who might call about your rifle shares your same expectations. I my experience most dont share mine and aren't willing to use the same Redding dies, co-ax press etc that I use to get good accuracy.

When I've got a good shooter to sell I post pics of targets I've shot in the ad. That's an objective statement of a rifles capability.

If the rifle will shoot "minute-of-deer" that is more than acceptable to the average shooter. I would have no qualms about selling it, but would answer any questions honestly. I understand there are lemons but almost any well-made rifle will out shoot the person shooting it.

To get rifles to shoot smaller groups : glass bed the action, free float the barrel, adjust the trigger pull,lapp the bolt locking luggs,recrown the muzzle,float the magazine box,remove wood from under the bolt handle,develope reloads. If its still a dog you need a new barrel or trade it off.

Cut 1/4" off the barrel and recrown it.

Tell you a neat story. Ever hear of Clyde Rose? Twenty-plus years ago he worked at the Browning warranty shop in the St Louis area. They stuck him in the BAR area. The rifles would come in with complaints that they shot patterns not groups. This old guy he worked under would end up with some that would not shoot. He would take 1/4" off of the barrel and recrown it. With one bullet weight or the other it would then shoot. Barrel harmonics.
Clyde started piddling around with the notion of threading maybe 3/8" of the muzzle end and then moving a weight back and forth on the threads. Found a way to "tune" the barrel harmonics with each load to group well under an inch. They transferred him to Ogden, Utah, to the R&D department. He developed this tuner in conjunction with a muzzle brake. Patented it and licensed Browning and Winchester to use. Yes, the "BOSS". They couldn't get a patent on a piece of metal you just threaded back and forth, but with a muzzle brake they got the patent. About two days after the patent expired, a dozen guys were selling "Tuners." A friend let me know about this before the BOSS was announced to the public and I drove down and did an article on Clyde and the Tuner/Brake for Precision Shooting Magazine about twenty years ago (exact date?).

Rich

I trade them off but ALLWAYS tell the dealer or the guy im selling it too that i did have problems getting it to shoot.

Not a rifle!
I once owned a S&W model 24, 6.5 inch barrel, one of the first ones S&W made when they re-introduced them.
I couldn'r hit the inside of a wash tub with the muzzle inside. However if I handed you the pistol you could shoot bragging groups, and the next fellow, and the next fellow.
Most of my revolver shooting shooting was with S&W model 25s, 45 Colt, and did rather well with them.
But that model 24, for me, would have made a nice paper weight. Swapped it to a fellow for his model 25, 45 Colt. He shoot bulls eye matchs with that model 24 and did well.
Sometimes it's the symbiosis between the shooter and the firearm.

Jim

Have one or two friends shoot it and see how it does for them.

I'd trade it off.

I bought the first m700 chambered in .260 rem that I could find. I could only find one factory load for it (pre handloading for me), 140grn rem corelocts, and the gun hated them. 3" groups @100yrds was the best I could do with it. I traded it off at a loss for a Ruger .44mag semi auto carbine that also shot 3" groups, but considerig the practical application of each gun, I was happy with the Ruger and still have it.

At first I was with Danno; not selling a lemon to your fellow man. But there has been a lot of good input about everybody's opinion of what constitutes a good rifle and it has changed my mind.

Our educated opinion of accuracy may differ from others. Where we want a 1/2" gun, others may be happy with a 2" gun.

Some people think that White Zinfandel is the best wine on the market...

Sell it to someone who will be happy with it.

If you are like a lot of people, you take a picture of the one and only group where you were lucky enough to jerk three shots into a relatively small group then advertise the rifle on a forum classified board touting it's "extreme accuracy" and "low round count" for nearly full retail price.

Any more for me, if it doesn't want to shoot with a minimum of fuss, I pull the barrel and screw on a new one. My reloading components, reloading time, travel time, range time and sanity are valuable enough to me that I don't have much patience for a rifle that won't shoot.

A buddy of mine has a Factory Rem 700 rechambered to some cigar sized .308 caliber wildcat. He's gone through almost 10 pounds of powder and 600+ bullets trying to get it to shoot. When I calculated what he had spent trying to get than factory barrel to shoot, he would have been way ahead to have gone the custom route to begin with.

Hell, he's probably shot out the barrel by now and will have to start over anyway.

I'd try free floating the barrel and then a recrown.

God Bless, Louis

Send it to me. I will pay shipping.

quote:

Originally posted by CAS II:
Any more for me, if it doesn't want to shoot with a minimum of fuss, I pull the barrel and screw on a new one. My reloading components, reloading time, travel time, range time and sanity are valuable enough to me that I don't have much patience for a rifle that won't shoot.
.

Right on the money.

Hey Idaho! Scott Grange had some input on the BOSS system too!

quote:

First of all, I appreciate Harm's kind words and giving me some of the credit for the BOSS system. But like most things, especially here at Browning, great and some not so great, LOL, products that emerge are a team effort and the BOSS was no different. Some day when we are sitting around, perhaps between backed up stations on a sporting clays course, I'll tell you the whole story. Due to my limited typing speed, it would take me half the day. LOL

I'll fill you in after Nationals!

quote:

Some people think that White Zinfandel is the best wine on the market...

Not after trying Liebfraumilch!

I take it to a good friend and gunsmith and have him rebarrel after squaring the action and lapping the lugs.

I tell all my friends the reason guns are better than women is because if one don't please you it is easy to get rid of it! As was said many people would be happy to have some of the rifles we don't think shoot good enough. Even within this group we have different ideas of what is good enough. For me I really strive for 5 shots under an inch at 100 yards but 3 out of 5 will do if the other 2 are close. I allow for my human error. I am really happy if I can get 3 shots to touch. I am sure many on this forum would not be happy with that but for hunting I can live with it.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
Not every rifle that you buy turns out to be a tack driver, at least not every rifle that I have bought.

...the darn thing still won't perform like you thought it would for the intended purpose of it's purchase. What do you then do??

Fix it or get rid of it one way or another. If its a new rifle, then call customer service and go from there. Otherwise trip the rifle and try again.

I understand the issue, I too have wondered if I'm selling something I'm not happy with is it wrong to give the next person that same thing? However, if you disclose it's ability, then you're done. and sometimes it works out for them better, i.e.

I sold a semi-auto 22mag rifle. for me it would jam, give trouble, I got tired of it and sold it off. (disclosed the issue) the person that bought it reported back that they loosedned the tension on the guide rods a bit and it worked great.

Could you tell us what kind of rifle it is and how many rounds have been thru the barrel? I've got a bunch of shoot/won't shoot stories.

Use the rifle as an opportunity to learn.

Measure the chamber, headspace, bore and groove diameters. Talk to some lead bullet experts at Castboolits. Drive a lead ball through the bore and check for tight and loose spots. There will be something found that is unusual.


Example.
I bought a nice used single shot 45-70 about 25 years ago. The gun shop said it had set in a safe unfired for years. It was in mint condition. It would not group 5 shots on a 2 ft X 2 ft target. I only got 3 rounds out of 5 in an 18" circle.
Everything on it looked like new and unused.
I thought about this rifle a long time. Maybe 6 months. I finally pushed a cast bullet through it. It had a tight spot at the barrel band and at the banded front sight.
I shipped it back to the manufacturer and they replaced the barrel and blued it free of charge.
It shot fine after that.

SR for those of us whose time to play is limited such an endeavor would not be worth the trouble.
I want to spend my limited shooting time enjoying myself rather than farting around with endless puzzles.

It does not meet your criteria, if you don't want to pursue getting it to shoot, sell or trade it with full disclosure of what issues you had, It will meet someone's criteria. I recently sold an auto loading shotgun that occassional had cycling problems, I sold it informing the buyer it occassionally "stovepiped" the eject, he absoulately loves it and says it works fine for his needs. Everyone moves on and is happy.

blow it out. Get rid of it. Git on down the road. Find one that's a shooter. You'll feel better about your new rifle and yourself.
GWB

I have done lots of things with rifles that would n't shoot. One was a mini 14 8 inchs was the best you could hope for that went back to the factory for a new barrel then it was a 2 inch rifle like most minis.

another was a rem700adl in 300wm that shot at the best 6 inch groups I free floated the barrel and it was a 1.5 in rifle I then glass bedded it now its is a .750 inch rifle.

Another one was 95 mauser in 7x57 it wouldn't stay on a 8x11 at 50 yards. The stock was so badly inletted that the recoil area was completely cracked out the tang area and behind the trigger was very badley cracked. The barrel so worn that I cut a inch off and recrowned it. Glass bedded the stock so it is all most completley glass from the front of the action to past the tang area. Looks like a wood stock form the out side but its all glass in that area.

Now she well put them all into one hole at 50 yards

I never sell I just play with them. One of the rifles I have killed more game with them most of mine is a 99 sav in 300sav its a 2 inch rifle. I killed dozens of deer with it out to 200 plus yards and none of them ever complained a bit.

I really only need very accurate rifles for my varmint guns that need to shoot p dogs way out there. I have some very accurate rifles they are nice but for big game hunting a 1 to 2 inch rifle well kill most any thing you need to unless you plan on taking shots past 400 yards.

Bigbird a freind of mine from down your way just brought a auto loader with those problems. He put some new parts in it and it works just fine now.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
Not every rifle that you buy turns out to be a tack driver, at least not every rifle that I have bought.

If you have tried all the screws tightening, scope checks, stock modifications/replacements, reloading searches for bullet and powder combos, and the darn thing still won't perform like you thought it would for the intended purpose of it's purchase. What do you then do??

1. Trade it in and see if someone will buy it off the used shooter rack.

2. Give it away to a family member who either doesn't know it won't group well or could care less.

3. Put an add in the paper/internet and hope to sell it to a stranger who will never come back.

4. Sell it to Hot Core.

I have one of those, my wifes first rifle. Can not get it to shoot better than 2 1/2 MOA no matter what. Reloading, bedding and free floating, new stock, differnet scopes etc. She has however taken several deer. It will shoot minute of deer. I am convinced the chamber is bad. Another rifle in the same caliber will not chamber a resized case from the wifes rifle. Even with different brand dies. The strech mark before the extractor groove is not concentric. It's her's and even though she has a new rifle that will shoot better she wants to keep it. I'm thinking a new barrel, or down the road.

Just depends on how bad is bad? I have a 500 S&W handi rifle that with open sights I get about 4" groups at 100 yards. I consider it perfect for 99% of my hunting needs. For the other 1% such as shots between 150 and 300 yards I like 2" at 100 yards (also to mean 6" at 300 yards.. because if I really think I will be shooting up to 300 yards I will also practice at 300 yards).

quote:

Originally posted by Oddbod:

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
Not every rifle that you buy turns out to be a tack driver, at least not every rifle that I have bought.

If you have tried all the screws tightening, scope checks, stock modifications/replacements, reloading searches for bullet and powder combos, and the darn thing still won't perform like you thought it would for the intended purpose of it's purchase. What do you then do??

1. Trade it in and see if someone will buy it off the used shooter rack.

2. Give it away to a family member who either doesn't know it won't group well or could care less.

3. Put an add in the paper/internet and hope to sell it to a stranger who will never come back.

4. Sell it to Hot Core.

I'd just give it to Hot Core..

he must burn out tons of rifle barrels taking those thousands upon thousands of deer he tells us about.. ....

however those Blue Dot loads do help increase barrel life!

For me it would depend on the action. Then the next question is: how much of a rifle loonie are you? A rifle loonie would have his bolt action rebarreled. If you're just an average gun owner, I would trade it in and hope for the best.

I am extremely picky when it comes to accuracy and consistency, and if something doesn't meet my criteria and expectations, off it goes. But if I know how a gun will or won't shoot, I always add this information to the listing. Good or bad, it always seems to help a sale when such info is available.

I've been torched a time or two by a seller who was not forthcoming with a gun's performance pitfalls and condition, and -- knowing exactly how that made me feel -- I wouldn't want to do that to anyone.

I'll never forget a 788 I bought in my younger days. The guy claimed he only had it for a couple months and that he had a receipt to show when he bought it used from some local shop. It was coming from a very humid/marshy part of the state, and when he mentioned some freckling on the barrel, I promptly asked how all else looked beneath the stock. He said that it was never taken apart and that he didn't/couldn't take it apart as he wasn't very mechanically inclined.

So I said I'd take it, sent him the money and patiently waited for the rifle to arrive from the salt flats along the southern TX coast. When I got the rifle, I promptly took it apart to find a pitiful sight (pardon the pun ).

I quickly found out that the guy flat out lied to me. He must have forgotten that he tooled his initials and TXDL into the bottom of the barrel just ahead of the receiver...

I spent lots of time cleaning it up and even got it reblued. It turned out to be a terrific shooter, but I'll never forget that feeling of disgust, dismay and disappointment when I first removed that stock.

I got an older (mid 80's) weatherby vanguard VGX deluxe in 25-06 that won't do any better than a 6" group at 300 yds. Barrel is floated. Put a brand new VARI-X III 6.5-20 on it. No difference. Problem is, it was Dads gun, and Dads gone. I'd never sell it, but would sure like it to shoot well. I don't reload, but i've ran everything from 87 gr - 117 gr through it, with little difference.
MoMike

The only rifle I have ever kept that doesn't shoot well is a post-'64 Winchester Model 70 in .300 H&H Magnum. It really isn't a true dog, but I was never able to get better than 1.75" MOA out of it; not super accurate, but I'm sure adequate for big game out to 300 yds or so. However, since it is a rather uncommon caliber in post-'64 M70, IIRC, this one was made in the late '80's or early '90's, and has beautiful piece a wood on it, I have held on to it.

keep it and practice gunsmithing on it. i had stevens model 200 in .300 win that i bought for 100 bucks because it shot like crap. its now a .458 win mag with a laminate stock.

Rifle that is a dog? Guess vaccinate and nueter it.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
Not every rifle that you buy turns out to be a tack driver, at least not every rifle that I have bought.

If you have tried all the screws tightening, scope checks, stock modifications/replacements, reloading searches for bullet and powder combos, and the darn thing still won't perform like you thought it would for the intended purpose of it's purchase. What do you then do??

1. Trade it in and see if someone will buy it off the used shooter rack.

2. Give it away to a family member who either doesn't know it won't group well or could care less.

3. Put an add in the paper/internet and hope to sell it to a stranger who will never come back.

My question is, what level of accuracy do you consider to be unacceptable?