I am shooting a 222 at the moment and I find that over 200 yards I have to start to lob the dam thing around. I have done some research on this forum and have narrowed now to three choices namely

223 - cheap ammo - muzzle jump
204 - no jump ability to see hits recoiless
20 Pactical - easily to case form also low recoil

my heart goes out to the 204 I just would like somebody with real life experience to guide me and confirm my research thanks

I will either get a cooper 21 Phoenix or get a smith to make a blueprint with walther barrel

thanks
Londonhunter

Hello,
I am assuming the 223 Rem. is readily available at your location and if it is, go with it. For all around useage, suggest a 9 twist barrel, but if you have opportunity or desire to shoot some long range, 600 yard long range, suggest you go with the 8 twist and 26" barrel. As the 223 being a NATO round, so much load data out there and so much development work has been done, makes it quite easy to load for about any sitution you may encounter. Bullet weights ranging from 40gr up to and including the Sierra 90 grain(requires very fast twist of 6 plus!.) Furthermore, you can increase the performance a bit if desired by going to the 223 Ackley Improved chambering which is quite easy to do. Versatility, availability, effeciency, economy and so on are all reasons to go with the 223 Remington caliber. Good luck!

quote:

my heart goes out to the 204 I just would like somebody with real life experience to guide me and confirm my research thanks
Londonhunter

I view the 222, 222 mag, and 223 as good, better, and best. The 223 with a fast twist barrel would probably serve you best, but it sounds like you have already made up your mind. I have friends that speak well of the new 204, but I'm a 22-250 fan and have been for years, plus my back-up is a 220 Swift. I just like the bigger 22s.

If you're talking over 200 yards, you'll find that with their low ballistic coefficient, you'll have to do some lobbing with the 204 Ruger though I really do like that cartridge.

For an over 200 yard small bore rifle, my pick would be the 22-250 with the 223 a close second.

I say try to get a .22-250, .243, or .223

I ended up going with .223 and I am glad I did

In my varminting experience with the 204...I had two Pac Nor barrels screwed on to Savage s/shot actions...both 12 twists using the 40 v max bullet @ 3880 fps...never had to 'lob' the bullet at any time out to 600+ yds on p/dogs or stray coyotes sneaking into the p/dog fields for free lunch...the only thing about the 204 is the large appetite for powder for high volume shooting...even with a 15# rifle having a 27" x 1.055" no taper SS tube..it would heat up...so I decided to try something different after the first 2500+ rds in my original 204 bbl....I had it rechambered to 20 Vartarg (20 Fireball)...now this is a sweet/effiecient cartridge pushing a 40 V max out @ 3550 on only 19.5/H322...this seasoned barrel will last forever at that charge...then after my second 204 barrel...maybe only 800 rds down it..I caught wind of the 20 Practical (20-223)...so it was sent back & rechambered for that interesting cartridge...dies were no problem...I use my Forster BR 204 seater...a Redding 223 bushing neck die with .227 & .230 bushings along with FL sized 223 brass to form the 20 PT case...loads were simple to find...26.5/H4895 nets a quick 4026 fps with moly 40 v max and 26.5/BM...yes actually faster than the 204 in the same barrel...but in the more effiecient 223 case..safe in my rifle...but work up in yours..here's a pic showing the 20s & 223 AI.....L-R..
20 Vartarg..20 PT...204R...223 Ackey Imp..
the 223 Ackley is another of my favorites netting an honest 3500 fps with 27.5/BM w/55 NBT

My vote would be for one of the 20s if you are set in those choices. The .223 only goes 150-200fps faster. For a varmint round thats not alot of difference. I would suggest a 22-250 or .243 for longer range shooting because the heavier bullets pushed fast drop/drift less. And the 22-250 has tons of factory rounds available if thats important to you.

I vote for:
22-250, or
243 Winchester.
End of sermon...

Don

quote:

upgrade from 222

One does not 'upgrade from' a 222, but rather upgrades to a 222.

I am not sure how far out you want to reach and how big the critters are that you plan to hunt, but for small critters (</= coyote) out to 300 yards, I like the 223. For anything larger or farther I would go with a 243. Lou

I have all the calibers mentioned but today my favorite is the .204 and I don't have to lob over 300yrds. Why? Inherently accurate and cheap to reload.

If I had to choose just one of the "bigger powder burners" from my closet, it would be the 204. I shoot a 22-250, 220, and a 20TAC but would take the 204 over any of them.

really there isn't much difference between a 222 and 223, in your shoes i'd look at the 204 1st and 22/250 or swift 2nd

Well thanks for all the input. I went away for a few days and manage to shoot a 204 what a revelation. Totally recoiless and I cna see the hit through the scope. I manage .3 at 100 yards wihtout knowing the rifle (Cooper varminter model 21) then I tried hand load however the weather in UK did not allow any time for grouping. But the first 02 shots went throught ehe same hole. I am well impressed.

I really think this is an upgrade from the 222
purely from the point that I can see the HIT and no need for a spotter!

TIME to stop dicussing on paper if I can get 4000 fps or which caliber is a barrel burner

again thanks for the advice I am ordering a 204 Cooper Varminter and I am going to top it with burris signature zee rings and a Hakko 8.- 34 x 50 scope essentially a NF and start enjoying my shooting

from sunny London UK

londonhunter, I know you will enjoy your new rifle. This cartridge is amazing. The boys at Hornady really got it right.

quote:

Originally posted by Grumulkin:
If you're talking over 200 yards, you'll find that with their low ballistic coefficient, you'll have to do some lobbing with the 204 Ruger though I really do like that cartridge.

For an over 200 yard small bore rifle, my pick would be the 22-250 with the 223 a close second.

I did not get a chance to chime in before you made your decision, but I’m glad you picked the 204. I will get to the 204 “lobbing†misnomer a little later…

I have shot just about every conceivable cartridge there is up to 416 Rigby, and while I do not currently own a .204, I am seriously considering it in the near future. My friend bought one last year and it is a LASER out to about 400 yards. Too many people saying to many good things about the 204 to discount its ability.
That being said…

After looking at the trajectories comparisons for two Remington factory 204 loads (32g & 40g) and three Federal factory loads for the 220 Swift (40g NoslerBT, 52g TNT HP, and 55g SierraBK) @ 300 yards there is less than 1†in trajectory difference between these 5 loads.
@ 400 yards both 204 loads are approx. 1†lower than the 40g Swift load.
The other 220 Swift loads come in 1†and 3†LOWER than the 204 loads.
(all loads zeroed @ 200 yards)

So I'm glad I didn’t buy a 220 Swift because I’ll have to start “lobbing†it after 200 yards…

quote:

Originally posted by Skinner.:

quote:

upgrade from 222

One does not 'upgrade from' a 222, but rather upgrades to a 222.

Only if you have a Hornet, and not an AI Hornet...

The .222, .223 and .222 Mag are merely increments of the same thing-no radical differences between them. If you are looking for a real step up from the .222, and insist on nothing larger than a .224" bullet diameter, go with the .22/250 or .220 Swift. If you can live with a bigger bullet, get a 6mm Remington.

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
If you can live with a bigger bullet, get a 6mm Remington.

Yes indeed.
There is a significant difference between the 22's and the .243's.
My long action 6mm with 70 and 80g bullets is a whole different world than any 22.

Then there are the 25's...

Thank God and the Constitution, we are not limited to only 1 gun.