Savage Mod. 12BVSS-S, .223

PMP cases, WSR primers (all) 50 yards

24.5gr.Accurate 4064

75gr BTHP, Match Hornady.oal=2.360", A little sooty, primer a little flat, 2805 to 2868fps. 4 shot 3/8" group.

69gr. HPBT, Custom Comprtiter, Nosler.oal=2.355",a little soot, 2849 to 2926fps. 5 shot 1/8" group.

60gr.HP, Sierra, 0al=2.310, 2883 to 2934 fps.,7 shot 1/4" group.

62gr. Law Enforcement, ?, 0al=2.295" first 5 1/2" group. Barrel cooled some and next 2 were 3/4" out of group but touching each other.

24.5 gr. H380

75gr. BTHP, Match Hornady, oal=2.360",2632 to 2715fps. 3 shot 1/8" group.

69gr. Custom Comp. Nosler, oal=2.350", 2652 to 2716 ?, 8 shot 1/2" group.

60gr.HP., Sierra,oal=2.310",2723 to 2794fps. 4 shot 1/8" group, 7 shot 1/4" group.

62gr Law Enforcement,crimped and lightly compressed. 2940 to 3009 fps. 5 shot 1 1/4" group.

roger

Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..

Roger,

From personal experience you can goose up the load on that H 380 a couple of grains if you wanted a little more velocity, without hurting anything...

I normally load 27.5 grains with 75 grains and up bullets and 28 grains with under 75 grains.....

I am also getting that kind of accuracy!

Thanks for posting

Cheers
seafire

[QUOTE]Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Roger,

From personal experience you can goose up the load on that H 380 a couple of grains if you wanted a little more velocity, without hurting anything...

I just hate pushing out primers by trying to compress ball powders. roger

What ever happened to MORTY?

quote:

What ever happened to MORTY?

I heard that he died in a freak out house explosion/fire.....

was smoking while doing his business in the outhouse... and had had too many pinto beans and cornbread with onions for dinner.......

but you know those hillbilly moonshiners...

They decided to cremate him instead of burial..... he burned for 3 weeks....

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
I just hate pushing out primers by trying to compress ball powders. roger

Then why are you using ball powders?

Short cut stick powders RULE when loading 223 Rem with bullets 68 grains and heavier.

Reloder 15, Varget, H4895, IMR 4895, and Vihta Vuori N540 and N550 are the most popular powders in NRA Highpower when it comes to pushing bullets in the 68 to 90 grain range.

The beauty of those powders is it is easy to find loads that work well with 68s or 75s for 200 and 300, and with VLDs or 80s for 600.

And that's with 20" barrelled ARs. In a longer rifle like yours, they will work even better.

My savage 112fv really loved 69gr Matchkings.

I'm getting 2750 fps with the Hornady 75 HPBT and 75 A-Max with 24.7 grains of Reloder 15, LC cases, and Federal 205M primers. And that's in a 20" AR15. Load is sub MOA at 600 yards.

I would expect close to 2900 fps with a 26" barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
I just hate pushing out primers by trying to compress ball powders. roger

Then why are you using ball powders?

Short cut stick powders RULE when loading 223 Rem with bullets 68 grains and heavier.

Reloder 15, Varget, H4895, IMR 4895, and Vihta Vuori N540 and N550 are the most popular powders in NRA Highpower when it comes to pushing bullets in the 68 to 90 grain range.

The beauty of those powders is it is easy to find loads that work well with 68s or 75s for 200 and 300, and with VLDs or 80s for 600.

And that's with 20" barrelled ARs. In a longer rifle like yours, they will work even better.

And thank you for sharing that with me. roger

You boys play nice...I'm learning from all of you.

I'm looking for some warm weather loads for a 16" AR (1 in 8") bull barrel and I have a bunch of IMR 4895 and some Varget. Is it too slow for a 16"??

quote:

Originally posted by Lowrider 49:
You boys play nice...I'm learning from all of you.

I'm looking for some warm weather loads for a 16" AR (1 in 8") bull barrel and I have a bunch of IMR 4895 and some Varget. Is it too slow for a 16"??

You should be fine. One advantage of stick powders, particularly Varget and RL15 is their insensitivity to temp variations, unlike most spherical propellants.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
I just hate pushing out primers by trying to compress ball powders. roger

Then why are you using ball powders?

Short cut stick powders RULE when loading 223 Rem with bullets 68 grains and heavier.

Reloder 15, Varget, H4895, IMR 4895, and Vihta Vuori N540 and N550 are the most popular powders in NRA Highpower when it comes to pushing bullets in the 68 to 90 grain range.

The beauty of those powders is it is easy to find loads that work well with 68s or 75s for 200 and 300, and with VLDs or 80s for 600.

And that's with 20" barrelled ARs. In a longer rifle like yours, they will work even better.

And thank you for sharing that with me. roger

Don't mention it, Elmer.

quote:

Originally posted by Lowrider 49:
You boys play nice...I'm learning from all of you.

I'm looking for some warm weather loads for a 16" AR (1 in 8") bull barrel and I have a bunch of IMR 4895 and some Varget. Is it too slow for a 16"??

Low Rider:

Try to some Reloader 7 in that short barrel...I think you will like the results...It is as accurate as Varget... the other one I would recommend to try is Benchmark also....

That being said, I shoot a lot of IMR 4895 in my 223s... I just don't own any shorty barrels...

I'd also play with some IMR 4227 and SR 4759 and see if that gives you any better results.. in a short barrel I'd lean toward a faster powder, just because it will burn quicker and needs less barrel....

A lot of 223 loads are available for contender pistols....so that should be the ticket in a 16 inch barrel...

cheers
seafire

Thanks Sea Fire!!

I've not shot any Reloader, but I will give it a try and see what happens.

I'm using IMR 4895 in my 7 TCU in an 18" so it may not be too slow for the 16".

I've always heard the 16" barrel was the optimum for the .223 so I've stayed with the shorter and handier barrels...I don't do SBRs so I can't say for sure about going shorter than 16". One of my sons does have a 20" AR and it shoots the same loads just fine. One more project for Spring!! Thanks again!!

Resently 4 different 50gr. bullets were tested using 24.5gr of Accurate 2015 a powder just slightly slower than 4198.The avg. velocity was about 3200fps.This powder should work well in short barrels.

75gr bthp. Hornady Match,

26.5gr. WCC846, oal=2.385" 3036 to 3084fps. 4 shot 1/4" group at 50 yards.

24gr. 2230-C, 0al=2.347", 2777 to 2872 fps. 10 shots you could cover with a dime. 50yds.

The 2230-C would work a little more efficiently than the WCC846 in short barrels. roger

Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..

You ball powder fans must never shoot when it gets hot.

Hey fellas,

I have a Remington 788 chambered in .223rem what is capability of this rifle? I haven't had a chance to shoot it enought to know. That and I need a better scope for it. Your input will help with the scope choice too. I bought it used from a local gun dealer, someone had shortened crowned and floated the barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by ABrock:
Hey fellas,

I have a Remington 788 chambered in .223rem what is capability of this rifle? I haven't had a chance to shoot it enought to know. That and I need a better scope for it. Your input will help with the scope choice too. I bought it used from a local gun dealer, someone had shortened crowned and floated the barrel.

It depends on the barrel's rate of twist. That will define what the heaviest bullet it will stabilize.

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter:
You ball powder fans must never shoot when it gets hot.

LOL! For me, I use AA2230 and AA2460 not because they are ball powders, but because my rifles shoot the best with them. IMR4895 and 4064 are ok, but I get the best results from the AA powders.

quote:

I just hate pushing out primers by trying to compress ball powders.

Well, you may laugh at this...I never did such a thing myself....some of the BPCR shooter put an UNDERpowder wad in their cases in an effort to reduce ES's...newsprint, or other light weight paper...it would probably keep the powder where it belongs...

quote:

Originally posted by NEJack:

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter:
You ball powder fans must never shoot when it gets hot.

LOL! For me, I use AA2230 and AA2460 not because they are ball powders, but because my rifles shoot the best with them. IMR4895 and 4064 are ok, but I get the best results from the AA powders.

Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule, and the slow burn rate Accurate Arms ball powders are it.

In fact, I've been looking at the speeds achievable with AA 2520 and I might just buy a pound of it to try. From what I have read about it, it appears to be as temp insensitive as Varget and Reloder 15 (the gold standards in HP).

If you haven't tried Varget or Reloder 15 in heavy bullet 223 loads, you should.

quote:

Originally posted by DigitalDan:

quote:

I just hate pushing out primers by trying to compress ball powders.

Well, you may laugh at this...

No laugh here, Dan. Probably the vast majority of reloaders have never experienced this. I have. I use to play around with a lot of 5020 in fairly large capacity cases trying to find something it would work in. In compressing a totaly full case of the stuff I noticed ALL my primers had backed out perhaps .030". This happened more than once. roger

quote:

Originally posted by HP Shooter:

If you haven't tried Varget or Reloder 15 in heavy bullet 223 loads, you should.

I am planning to use Reloader powder one of these days, but I did most of my load development with the two AA powders, and have 400 rds of them. So it will be after I get all my reloading done for the upcoming varmit hunt.

I love RL 15 in most other cartridges.. but it has not performed as well as a lot of other powders in the 223 case for me....

I don't care usually for Varget but in a 223, it has proven superb....

I have tried 2520, and unfortunately it is not readily available locally....but its results, especially with 75, 77 and 80 grain bullets in a bolt action 223 has been superb also!

Reloader 10 also deserves a strong looking at for lighter bullets in the 223, ( 53 grains or less is aLL I have tried it for).....

Just my experiences
cheers
seafire

Seafire and anybody else with an opinion,

What is the lightest bullet you have successfully used in a tight twist (say 1 in 8") in a .223?

I have used only down to 55 gr in my .22-250 improved in 1 in 8" twist and they are OK. At a lower velocity can you shoot 40 gr or so in a 1 in 8" barrel? How about a 1 in 9"?

quote:

Originally posted by Lowrider 49:
Seafire and anybody else with an opinion,

What is the lightest bullet you have successfully used in a tight twist (say 1 in 8") in a .223?

45 grains. It was factory ammo (Winchester White Box from Wal Mart) and all made it to the target.

I bought 100 more rounds of that stuff for prone rapid fire practice at 100 yards. My rifle now wears a 1/7 barrel, and I am positive they will survice the trip fine.

Thanks HP!!

I have been thinking about light weight walkaround carbine with a thin 20" Contender barrel in .204.

The other option is the .223 with a 1 in 8" which I could use for light and heavy bullets which would make it a lot more flexible than the .204. Glad to hear the 45 gr works in yours. Fox and crows are the primary targets and the light bullets are wonderful. I have a couple AI chambers now and would probably go that route again....you can always load them down.

Thanks again!!

Lowrider,

I have shot close to a 1000 of the 40 gr. Sierra Hp through my 1-8 twist 223. No problems so far.

Jim

There is absolutely no downside to a fast (1/9 or faster) 223 barrel. 1/8 or 1/7 will stabilize any weight except the new match 90 grain bullets.

I have no idea why anyone would want to lock themselves into light bullets with a 1/12 or 1/14 when the can get a 1/8 and shoot ANY bullet they like.

Thanks guys!!

The choice is clear!!

quote:

Originally posted by Lowrider 49:
Seafire and anybody else with an opinion,

What is the lightest bullet you have successfully used in a tight twist (say 1 in 8") in a .223?

I have used only down to 55 gr in my .22-250 improved in 1 in 8" twist and they are OK. At a lower velocity can you shoot 40 gr or so in a 1 in 8" barrel? How about a 1 in 9"?

I haven't had the luck that some of the others on this board have had with 40 gr bullets in a 1-9 twist. Seems like they come apart (with factory loads, not reloads) before they hit the target. Kind of fun to see actually!

My guns like 55 gr bullets and heavier, but anything more than 45 gr works ok. My Savage prefers 60 gr VMAX while I use 55gr in my RRA AR