Howdy,

I´ve now worked a bit on loads for my 25.20 Single Shot using VV N120 and small rifle primers with Rem 86gr bullet . A load of 9grs doesn´t give any pressure signs but does leave powder in the barrel. Loads under this leave soot on the case (Bertram Brass). Has anyone used 25-20 WCF loads in their Single Shots?

I've been shooting the 25-20 WCF for quite a while. I had excellent accuracy at 50 yards with the 86 grain Remington and 15 grains of WW-748 and a small rifle benchrest primer. I got better accuracy and 1900 fps with the Lyman cast 257420 GC bullet, the AA 1680-Re-7 range of powders, partial neck sizing, and frequent annealing. Wonderful little cartrige in the Marlin. ned

+1 for AA-1680, loaned my lyman 257420 mold to a friend and it got lost in shipping, really miss it. A really great bullet.

I own a Winchester Model 43 Bolt Action in .25-20 WCF. I've found that 7.0 GRS/SR-4759/86 grain Soft Point the most accurate and clean burning. I've also use 10.0 GRS/IMR-4198. with the same bullet which is also clean burning and accurate. With cast gas-checked bullets of 75 grains; I use 4.0 GRS of Unique powder. This load is a great shooter!!

quote:

Has anyone used 25-20 WCF loads in their Single Shots?

The .25-20 WCF is distinctly a different round than a .25-20 single shot......the single shot round is a longer case!

I use the Hornady 60 grain FP in my M-92 rifle and have even taken Duiker and Springbok in Africa with it as it spits them about 2,200'/sec and is a sweet low powered round for the tiny antelope.

While it might be possible, I'd sure not recommend trying to fire the .25-20 WCF in the .25-20 single shot rifle!!!!!

That said.....I'd not hesitate to use the Hornady 60 grain FP in the single shot case if I could find loading data for it!

He seems to be asking whether .25-20 WCF loading data is suitable in the .25-20 Singleshot case.

I don't know, but I do know how to find out. Measure the usable powder capacity of a .25-20 SS case. Lee lists the .25-20 WCF at 1.06 CCs. If the SS case is roughly the same, the same charges will give the same pressures in both cases. My guess is that they will be very close since they both started using the same amount of black powder.

Another thing that I do not know is whether the rifle in question will handle those pressures. The .25-20 SS was chambered in a variety of rifles ranging from the pathetic to the extremely strong. The .25-20 WCF has been upgraded a couple of times to far above BP pressures and ballistics. The current limit of c. 28,000 CUP is way more than I would want in some of the older boys rifles.

quote:

He seems to be asking whether .25-20 WCF loading data is suitable in the .25-20 Singleshot case.

No it's not

I found some loading data.....



68 Lyman 257420GC IMR IMR-4227 8.5 1,430
68 Lyman 257420GC IMR IMR-4227 9.0 1,546
68 Lyman 257420GC Alliant RL-7 10.0 1,300
Remarks: 1 to 1 1/2 inches
68 Lyman 257420GC Hodgdon H-110 8.0 1,350
Remarks: 1 1/2 inches
68 Lyman 257420GC Hodgdon H-110 9.0 1,498
68 Lyman 257420GC Alliant 2400 8.0 1,600
Remarks: maximum/1 1/4 inches
68 Lyman 257420GC IMR IMR-4198 9.0 1,350
68 Lyman 257420GC IMR IMR-4198 9.5 1,425
Remarks: 1 1/4 inches
68 Lyman 257420GC Winchester W-680 9.0 1,200
68 Lyman 257420GC IMR SR-4759 8.0 1,350
Remarks: 1 1/2 inches
68 Lyman 257420GC IMR SR-4759 9.0 1,700
90 Lyman 257464GC Alliant 2400 8.0 1,650
90 Lyman 257464GC IMR IMR-4227 8.0 1,300
Remarks: 1 1/2 inches
90 Lyman 257464GC IMR IMR-4227 8.5 1,385
90 Lyman 257464GC IMR IMR-4227 9.0 1,450
Remarks: 3 1/2 inches
90 Lyman 257464GC Alliant RL-7 10.0 1,290
Remarks: 1 1/2 inches
90 Lyman 257464GC Alliant RL-7 11.0 1,500
Remarks: 1 1/2 inches
90 Lyman 257464GC IMR SR-4759 7.0 1,238
90 Lyman 257464GC IMR SR-4759 8.0 1,450
90 Lyman 257464GC IMR IMR-4198 10.0 1,440
90 Lyman 257464GC IMR IMR-4198 10.5 1,550

60 Hornady flatnose Alliant 2400 8.0 1,477
60 Hornady flatnose Alliant 2400 9.0 1,640
Remarks: OK
60 Hornady flatnose IMR IMR-4227 9.0 1,325
60 Hornady flatnose IMR IMR-4227 10.0 1,517
60 Hornady flatnose Alliant RL-7 12.0 1,301
60 Hornady flatnose Alliant RL-7 13.0 1,503
Remarks: 2 inches
60 Hornady flatnose IMR IMR-4198 11.0 1,500
60 Hornady flatnose IMR IMR-4198 12.0 1,560
60 Hornady flatnose IMR IMR-4198 13.0 1,687
Remarks: OK/3 inches
60 Hornady flatnose Winchester W-680 10.0 1,306
60 Hornady flatnose Winchester W-680 11.0 1,734
Remarks: erratic/8 inches
60 Hornady flatnose Hodgdon H-110 9.0 1,550

Hi,

Sorry that I haven´t been taking part in "my" thread but it´s been hectic.

I´m shooting an original Win low wall that is in excellent shape, my gunsmith said I´m safe upping the loads quite a bit.

But if the powder isn´t burning efficiently then should I try a hotter primer? The logical solution would be to use a faster powder but that would fill the shell even less than now.

A slower powder would give better filling but what happens to pressure...goes up doens´t it?

Cewe, I do not worry much about either soot or unburned powder. My concerns are accuracy, velocity, and pressure. If the soot bothers you, you can anneal the case necks. Soot just shows that the pressure is not enough to fully expand the necks and you are working at a very low pressure.

Some powders also tend to leave unburned flakes. If it does not affect performance, I don't worry about it. Can't comment on your powder because it's not one I use.

Your low wall is plenty strong, but heavy loads will shorten case life, or at least they do in the .25-20 WCF.

Strangely accuracy was pretty much the same with all the loads -strange. The open sights on this rifle aren´t optimal for shooting groups but three shots inside 125mm at 50m was decent.

AA 1680 and Remington 86gr's work well in my Savage 23B.

A .22 K-Hornet necked up to a .25 caliber would make a fine cartridge. This could be a subsitute for the old .25-20 single shot cartridge. Lot of Hornet rifles out there bagging to be converted

DRS, what about a 22 hornet necked up to 25 cal in a revolver?

quote:

Originally posted by MikeN:
DRS, what about a 22 hornet necked up to 25 cal in a revolver?

That would be called the 25 magnum. They talk about it on ammoguide.com

It's interesting to note that no-one has tried Lil'Gun in the 25-20. Surely this would be an ideal cartridge for that powder? Or are the SAAMI pressures to low to burn it properly?

quote:

Originally posted by MikeN:
DRS, what about a 22 hornet necked up to 25 cal in a revolver?

Probably would work okay. I would stick with the regular Hornet case necked up instead of going the .22 K-Hornet necked up to .257" route.

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
It's interesting to note that no-one has tried Lil'Gun in the 25-20. Surely this would be an ideal cartridge for that powder? Or are the SAAMI pressures to low to burn it properly?

Couldn't see why not. Also has anyone tried H-110 in the .25-20 WCF???

quote:

Originally posted by cewe:
Howdy,

I´ve now worked a bit on loads for my 25.20 Single Shot using VV N120 and small rifle primers with Rem 86gr bullet . A load of 9grs doesn´t give any pressure signs but does leave powder in the barrel. Loads under this leave soot on the case (Bertram Brass). Has anyone used 25-20 WCF loads in their Single Shots?

I do not have a 25-20 (yet). Powder residue and no pressure signs could simply mean insuficient powder charge. Try increasing the charge a little. Another trick is to use a cardboard wad under the bullet! That seems to improve burning consistancy and raise pressure a little.

The load I've used in my old Marlin 25-20WCF for 20 years is the lyman 257420GC heat treated bullet over 13-4198. It's a load I got out of an old lyman manual and isn't max per that manual. I get over 2000fps out of my 24" barrel, and case life is better than expected for that tissue thin case mouth.

I shoot many of the old timers and have all ways had verry good results with AA5744

FWIW, I've tried both Lil Gun and Blue Dot in my 25-20 WCF Marlin using the same 257420GC that I 've driven to 1950fps(chrono) with other powders. The series were miserble, the BD leading every few shots from the start and the LG giving too large of groups to even think of getting serious with. Yet my gun shoots very well with AA1680, D-68, AA2200, RE-7, with the 257420 cast and GCs. With these powders, the 75 Speer FP can be interchanged with minor tweaking. I like the Remington 1 1/2 pistol primer even for really stiff loads, all in newer cases.

quote:

Originally posted by N. S. Sherlock:
FWIW, I've tried both Lil Gun ..... giving too large of groups to even think of getting serious with......

Very interesting. What was the loading you tried? Did it fill the case to powder compression levels?

Regarding the LG, my recollection is that I started at 9 grains, went up by .5 grains, shooting three shot groups and got up to 11 grains but groups were 3-4 inches for three shots at 50 yards. I don't recall 11 grains being compressed , but the performance was so bad I quit and broke the cartridges down as the other powers had given me 5/8" 5 shot groups at 50, 2 or 3 touching and no leading. I had been fired up by the reports on the hornet and 357M, and just chucked the paper data as I didn't see any potential worth the effort. Lee liquid alox thinned, bullets medium hard as cast + GC, neck sized only, annealed every few shots/case. Can't say about the jacketed bullets at all with LG. ned

My Savage bolt-action 25-20 WCF really likes just under 12 grs of H4227 and the 60gr Hornadys.

I would have thought a compressed charge of Lil'Gun would work. If 12grs H4227 works in the 25-20, 11grs H4227 works in the hornet and 13.7grs Lil'Gun works in the hornet .... about 15grs Lil'Gun would be the level that powder starts to burn properly in the 25-20. In my hornet, if too little Lil'Gun is used, very inconsistent velocities result with poor groups.